Thread: A question of morals

I'm posting this both to vent and to ask a question. First the venting. There I was minding my own business, looking for metal deposits, and I see some tin. As I am about to mine it, I'm attacked by a vale prowler. I'm standing so close to the tin deposit that I'm touching it. It's obvious to any outsider what the situation is. Suddenly, someone runs up takes the tin and runs off and all can do is keep fighting. Now the question. If you saw someone fighting next to a metal deposit, obviously attacked while trying to get it, would you take the metal, or would you leave it to the person who got there first? I would honestly leave it for the person who got there first. They found it so it should be rightfully theirs. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I feel like to do otherwise is like reaching into their pocket and taking it.

Unfortunately, there will always be rude folk who don't care and they'll take a node right from under you. One thing to keep in mind is that the nodes can be tapped so if you hit it and then have to fight something off before you can resume, the next person who comes along can't take it; at least, that's how it's supposed to work but I never had to try it out so I don't know specifics. Maybe someone else can chime in on this aspect of it because all I remember is the feature being added to help prevent node ninjas.

Not sure that tapping works that way. But, I haven't tried it in a long time.

It is very unfortunate that some players simply don't understand, are too greedy or too stupid to know any better, but the best you can do is shrug it off and continue, mumbling to yourself all the way to the next rich node. I believe in karma, btw!

Ah yes... the ore ninja. This also happened very frequently when Lotro originally launched.

These people will disappear once you reach higher levels where players understand the proper etiquette. You could send them a polite tell informing them that it's considered rude to take resource nodes while someone is fighting next to them. They might honestly not realize this, but if they are purposefully being mischievous or rude ignore them and continue on.

Unfortunately, the best I can say is this \/

Originally Posted by BetterOffDead-2

Ah yes... the ore ninja. This also happened very frequently when Lotro originally launched.

Just wait for things to slow down and you shouldn't have this problem Too much.

To answer your other question, Yes, it is... courteous to consider someone in the situation you described to have the ore, but unfortunately, game play does Allow for other... alternative actions and there's not much you can do other than to shrug it off and hope for better results next time.

thanks for the responses, one thing I have learned is most of the people on LOTRO are pretty cool. I don't know about the tapping thing because when the node ninja struck I was attacked halfway through mining the node and he still stole it.

In order have a tap on a node you have to:
1) Have an active mining induction.
2) Complete the induction have the node open.

The tap goes away when:
1) You close the node
2) Your induction is interrupted.

You find that there is a lot of people feel that a node only belongs to a character that has a tap. Like everything else, it is a game play decision made by each customer. Obviously when there are more than one player in the area with different game play choices. There is inter-personal conflict. We have both kinds of harvesters in our kin.

I have had this happen to me so many times here in The Shire, and other places! If I see someone mining and fighting I help with the fight if they are in trouble and move on. If someone is there as I get there, I move on. I hate having ore stolen from me, so I do my best not to do the same!

Boy do we feel your pain!

Pixiey

I'll have you know that this would be my SOP in that situation...

1.) Wait to see if the person needed help in the fight. Maybe through in a shot or two just to help them out.
2.) See if they were going for the node. If so, bow and leave.
3.) If not, then I get the node.

As stated already, there are a TON of new players washing in and they don't have the maturity or wisdom to do the above three. (I want to mention that I'm in that initial wave by the way so don't throw the baby out with the bath water! )

Thankfully, I can say that has only happened to me once since I started LotRo a few weeks back. Unlike another game I won't mention where it used to happen to me all the time. Not to overstate the obvious, but yes, not much you can do but shrug it off. You're completely right though, personally, I think it is a pretty **** maneuver to pull on someone, but sadly it happens. Like Yoteman, if I see someone at a node, I'll acknowledge them, help them if they need it, and only mine the node if they're not going to. But the good news is, for every one bad ninja node encounter, there are plenty of good ones you may encounter. All the positive responses here show that.

Just the other day, I was mining for tin. I know, everyone wants tin. So, I saw another character a few levels lower than me, mining as well, and stopped and asked if it was tin he was after (I hate feeling like I'm taking something from a lower level character who may have more trouble geting it than me). Turns out, he was after copper for his jeweller skill, so he offered to fellowship with me and help me search for tin. After a bit, with us expanding our search, I handed him some copper, some rocksalt, and a few gems, and he gave me all his tin. I later decided that since he had been so kind, I would mail him an iron prospectors pick I had made, and as I made my way to the mailbox, got a notice I had new mail. Turns out, while I was making the pick, he was mailing me some copper jewellery.

There are still plenty of good folk out there, like the ones here who have agreed with you. So don't be turned off by the one bad experience.

Darrke1 - Awesome story of collaboration! This is what makes MMO's great but it unfortunately gets forgotten all too soon.

Makes me think a casual Prospecting-Gathering Guild may not be a bad idea...

This has happened to me on a few occasions... I have to say I've helped out people close to a node fighting, but I've actually found a decent way for an LM to get around this. If you're going for a node and see anything close to it that may attack, send your pet (raven, bear, lynx whatever it may be) after the creature.

Trot yourself over and mine the node, then turn and help your pet. It's become quite handy for me and has helped to ward off one or two node nabbers

Originally Posted by Blarfghast

I'm posting this both to vent and to ask a question. First the venting. There I was minding my own business, looking for metal deposits, and I see some tin. As I am about to mine it, I'm attacked by a vale prowler. I'm standing so close to the tin deposit that I'm touching it. It's obvious to any outsider what the situation is. Suddenly, someone runs up takes the tin and runs off and all can do is keep fighting. Now the question. If you saw someone fighting next to a metal deposit, obviously attacked while trying to get it, would you take the metal, or would you leave it to the person who got there first? I would honestly leave it for the person who got there first. They found it so it should be rightfully theirs. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I feel like to do otherwise is like reaching into their pocket and taking it.

Honestly, I could care less from either side of the issue. Nodes repop fast anyway.

OP, yes, I agree, taking a node when someone is fighting or otherwise occupied next to it is definitely a slimy move. I like to actually stand on a node if I have to clean enemies away. I still had someone mine a copper node from under my feet, but that was sometime last year. I rewarded his actions by aggroing a trio of Goblins and leading them over to him. He was a Champ and AoE'd, taking aggro on all three. This was in the Midgewater Marsh and he was a couple levels under the base level for the area so they gave him a suitable beating as I jogged away. Good times.

Back in the "Good Olde Days" of LOTRO this happened quite a bit...frequently enough to make me so livid as to take the time to map out the respawn locations of all Prospecting Nodes in the game. When someone would Node-Ninja me, I just would beat them to the next Node and every subsequent Node in the region until I felt that justice (and karma) had been served.

A little bit of courtesy goes a long way, but you also have to come to accept that not everyone in the world is going to exercise common courtesy (as it is not as common anymore as the term denotes). If you feel the need, you can send the person a /tell pointing out their discourtesy, but other than that, they are under no obligation to abide by courtesy. If they are snarky in return, just set them on /ignore as they are probably someone you wouldn't want to PUG with or assist in the future. Then, just move on to the next node and let the whole experience be like water on a duck.

I usually just send the player a polite tell explaining that traditionally here that behavior is considered rude at best and stealing at worst. Usually the player either apologizes or thanks me for warning them before they got a bad reputation. Most really don't know because games differ in customs and some have never played an MMO before. However, recently on my new character I have encountered several loathsome individuals who were intentionally following new folk around stealing nodes, camping quest targets, and laughing about it. I am sorry to say that those people were VIPs assuming two things. One that all new people are F2P, and secondly that they somehow have the right to drive those folk away to "protect" the community. I know these people are rare, but it's disheartening to encounter them. I am a lifer, and if that's any indication of the state our "fine community" has reached, there's nothing left to "save."

I don't believe the majority of players would approve of these tactics even if they don't like the move to F2P but I have been distressed to see scattered mentions of these and other hostile behaviors being advocated lately on the forums. For an even more extreme example, look for the thread begging Turbine not to allow F2P players to use /say or talk anywhere at all outside fellowship and /tell.

The good news: I have seen some players broadcasting the location of tin nodes they pass. Now that is the community I remember and love! Let's save that one. For ALL of us.

Originally Posted by TsarithArcher

A little bit of courtesy goes a long way, but you also have to come to accept that not everyone in the world is going to exercise common courtesy (as it is not as common anymore as the term denotes).

This.

Common courtesy has seriously died off. I can't tell you how many times, when I was visibly pregnant, that I'd have men open a door in front of me and just let it close as I was walking a couple of feet behind them, especially when my hands were full. Or how about when we'd walk into a crowded restaurant waiting area and people would look at my gigantic belly and then pretend they don't see the huge and uncomfortable pregnant lady switching her weight from foot to foot, scanning the room for a seat (if you'd seen my swollen feet when I was pregnant, you'd see why I needed to sit). I've even seen people do stuff like that to very elderly folks and it makes me really angry.

I once heard someone say this....

There have always been claim-jumpers near Bag End. And there always will be.

Originally Posted by Ayrolen

This.

Common courtesy has seriously died off. I can't tell you how many times, when I was visibly pregnant, that I'd have men open a door in front of me and just let it close as I was walking a couple of feet behind them, especially when my hands were full. Or how about when we'd walk into a crowded restaurant waiting area and people would look at my gigantic belly and then pretend they don't see the huge and uncomfortable pregnant lady switching her weight from foot to foot, scanning the room for a seat (if you'd seen my swollen feet when I was pregnant, you'd see why I needed to sit). I've even seen people do stuff like that to very elderly folks and it makes me really angry.

Yup been there. I had someone run full tilt into me (I'm short but c'mon...) when I was pregnant with my oldest son. If my husband hadn't held me back I'd have shown em why you don't mess with a pregnant woman > Course they ran off without even a backward glance, so likely I wouldn't have been able to waddle fast enough after 'em sigh.

Err anyway claim jumping - yeah I have to say though as nice as this game has been, and it has indeed had a higher level of courtesy overall, people are still people and there are always idiots. When I started, before F2P, I stopped looting those "chests" and other things to talk to people standing around me - they ignored me and looted the chest instead of me. Yeah... that was nice. Had claimjumpers as well - just be persistent. I don't bother sending tells. I think maybe it's just my luck, I've tried that before for kill stealing or whatever and all I get is an earful. It's not worth it. If someone is that much of an idiot, they can just get what's coming to them karma wise imo.

As for those who follow people around messing with them... that's when you report them. That's been around since these games started, but now we can report for harrassment (Although, tbh, I kinda liked it better when you could get your friends to kill and loot idiots who messed with you but ah the world turns...)

Originally Posted by Midsummer

I am sorry to say that those people were VIPs assuming two things. One that all new people are F2P, and secondly that they somehow have the right to drive those folk away to "protect" the community. I know these people are rare, but it's disheartening to encounter them. I am a lifer, and if that's any indication of the state our "fine community" has reached, there's nothing left to "save."

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but I just wanted to point out that it's not an indication of the state of the community, at least not on Crickhollow. I've only been playing for a little over a week (as you can tell by the very youngish little newb hunter in my sig) and have not met a single jerk yet. Maybe I've been overly lucky, but the people I've met in the game have all been friendly and polite, and the forum community is welcoming and helpful.

Tangent: Extra thanks to the dwarf champion (whose name I can't remember! ) who took time off from his own quest for a little while to save my life when I accidentally took on way too many mobs in the wineyard quests in the prologue. I've never seen him before, haven't seen him since, but that's not the point. It was a nice thing to do, and I appreciate it. I'll pay it forward at the first available opportunity.

I have no doubt that I'll meet node-ninjas and kill-stealers, flamers and trolls, but every community has its bad elements. I had a positive first impression, and I will not let a small number of douchebags color my perception of the game community. All I ask is that VIPs and other "oldtimers" return the favor with regards to all the new F2P players.

Well there are always some bad apples in the basket but dont mean ever apple is bad

In general i think this community is good and so far have seen so few that wouldnt help..

the good...

i tend to give free stuff each day that i dont need usualy either something i crafted or found that wont make me rich if i vendor it but still something that someone could use,and one evening while i was giving free stuff away and joking how santa came early this year got a mail and saw someone sent me 1 gold for keeping the spirits up, and that made me go wow good things do happen if ye do good

the bad...

nod ninjas never happened to me yet and so far am happy but have seen kill stealing and dont like the side it brings in me, was doin the deed for the barrow spiders and that place is really small and always crowded and so i tried first to make a followship no one would accept since most were much higher lvl then me plus probably didnt like sharing the rep loot you can get there so yeah took ages to do that thing and everyone was in rush to agro as many mobs they can so when i finaly got pisd off i might be lower lvl then them but dont mean they can be faster :P

i actually ninja'd some unlucky people down at Bree, got ninja'd too. I really don't mind THAT much, but I tend to facepalm every once in a while when getting ninja'd /depends on my current patience level which most of the times is full/

but you got to realize that Bree is Bree, full of rude people, you just have to follow the current up until you switch places
The Shire... don't even get me started
Eren Luid in general... hmmm bleh some, some not.
North Downs...it's empty, you'll barely see some of those 'noobs' trying to get rich iron/gold deposits

once you're in the North Downs, it's pretty much easier from the get go.