Can champions tank or should we just leave it to the Guardians, I haven;t been on for about a year and im trying to get some info.
Also if anyone knows the most populated server let me know thanks
Champions can tank if necessary. They are better off doing DPS as their primary role but they ~can~ tank.
Eoblod (r9 Champ) / Finothir (r8 Guard) / Dinoth (r7 Hunt) / Didnt (r7 LM)
Denothir (r6 Capt) / Dinethir (r6 Burg) / Imrathion (r4 RK) / Blizothir (r4 Wrd)
Victuh (r5 Rvr)
~ Landroval ~
"Champions are based on Gimli. Gimli did not use a shield. Champions will not use shields." ~ Orion
Guards and wardens are better tanks than champs, however champs can tank if needed and are excellent for 3 man group content (new since you left, several 3 man instances exist now and 3 man skirmishes). Its better in larger groups to let the pros do it, but if you are the only person who can do it in a 6 man group, you are more than capable of filling the tank role, and often will support / offtank in a raid as well (a few even main tank a raid).
FYI burgs can offtank as well as a champion. They struggle to main tank -- they lack the aggro creation skills of true tanks & champs. But when it comes to just holding something down & taking the damage, a burg can do that easily.
Draegon:
"stack all the morale you want but dont come on here wonderin why you aint hittin hard! "
However there is a running thread on the topic in the "new players" forum (new player questions). The server approximations are given -- this is extrapolated data from the number of players who on the skirmish or pvp leaderboards, which if one assumes that the same sort of % of the population is present on these boards on any server, are a rough indication of population.
I think the heavy pop server is brandywine, and some other server is the hot pvp server, again, check that list out.
Draegon:
"stack all the morale you want but dont come on here wonderin why you aint hittin hard! "
Champions can TANK!!! Provided we have appropriate heals and mobs are being debuffed we make great tanks. Obviously a guardian and a warden have higher survivability with less heals, but a champ can tank everything a guard can, including all end game bosses. The cool thing about us tanking is that we can also put out high dps when we tank, so if high dps groups are your thing, tank on your champ and ditch the guard
As for high populated servers, Brandywine, Elendilmir and Landroval all have fairly high populations - transfers are not allowed into these servers at this point. I think Brandywine is probably highest, Elendilmir has a lot of PVP and Landroval is more of an RP server from my understanding. There are also many people rolling toons on Riddermark at the moment for PVP, but no one knows how that's going to turn out since everyone is still at low levels
Kamriel 75 CHN, Kamsterr 75 LM, HideHobitsHere Bear Tank Extraordinaire
It's not fair to say that Guards or Wardens are *better* tanks than Champions; rather, their classes have more skills that seem suited to that role in most situations. For example: In a lot of tanking situations, you have to generate a lot of aggro without doing damage, because the damage could kill a target that can't be killed. In these situations, Champions will not be able to hold aggro (because almost all of a Champion's aggro is damage-based). For another example: In some situations, the sheer amount of damage output is overwhelming, and a Champion cannot mitigate as much of it as a Guardian or Warden can. In this situation, a Champion may be hard-presed to survive. Finally, Guardians and Wardens can both put out more area aggro than a fervour Champion going all-out, if they're really, really good (although the Champion may be able to steal aggro off a single target over time or have more aggro early in the fight thanks to crits).
That does not mean, however, that the Guards and Wardens are *always* better. Guards and Wardens could not possibly hope to tank 13 targets at a single time, for instance. If damage output is actually desirable, and the incoming damage is manageable, the Champion is a far better tank.
Champions can and have tanked nearly every instance in the game. Situations that call for less damage being done to a target, i.e. Warg Pens, Ost Elendil, and idly holding mobs works against champion tanking. Champions are given a few survivability skills, Blocking Blades, Sudden Defence, Dire Need, Bracing Attack, and Adamant/Invincible. Wardens are #1 on generating massive AoE aggro, Champions are #2 (mainly because our AoEs are limited to a number of targets, Warden's Conviction heal builds aggro on everyone), and Guards are #3 because their AoE generation has fewer targets than Champ or Warden.
Champion tanking requires a little rework of how you are playing a champ, if you are used to solo work, but it is very viable as long as you don't have to try to hold aggro on things that don't get aggro through DPS. Personally, I think you should learn how to tank on your champ to make DPSing go easier (you find out how far you get to go before pulling aggro).
Rexthalion 75 Champion Landroval
DoTF's One and Only.
"Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart. ... Stay hungry. Stay foolish." - Steve Jobs, RIP-
Champion tanking requires a little rework of how you are playing a champ, if you are used to solo work, but it is very viable as long as you don't have to try to hold aggro on things that don't get aggro through DPS.
We can hold agro throught threat generation as well without dps. We have one of the most powerful threat transfer skills in the game on a 10-20 second cooldown depending on legendaries. Rising ire can get you the agro of anything and can hold agro over strength stance hunters if you want to.
Kamriel 75 CHN, Kamsterr 75 LM, HideHobitsHere Bear Tank Extraordinaire
Champs just need a bit more attention from the group when tanking certain things thats all. I've tanked most raid bosses at some point and actually enjoy that more than tanking on a guard.
I'd disagree with the AoE comment... raging blades builds a ton more aggro than conviction does...
Raging Blades builds a ton of aggro, yes, but the number of targets it can affect is limited. If it is less than or equal to 13 then the champ can hold aggro on all of them easily, beyond that you need something that builds threat is more ways than one.
As to the other thing, yes, you can hold aggro via other methods, but in places where things are absorbing damage you won't actually get aggro on anything for around a minute. In those cases champions fall behind both wardens and guards. Our force taunt only works on one target and a Raging Blades will get overtaken by healing aggro somewhat quickly, even with Rising Ire the situation gets sticky.
Rexthalion 75 Champion Landroval
DoTF's One and Only.
"Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart. ... Stay hungry. Stay foolish." - Steve Jobs, RIP-
A classic example- Sword Halls, hard mode, where a single Champ can tank the Troll and Morrovail (sic?) in Ardour and no shield while Flame Dude gets knocked down. You'll never see those 2 bosses pull away from you and you can hold your own for as long as it takes. Champs can tank and we don't need no stinkin' shields
Now, do I like to tank? No.
Champs can tank very well. The only real difference between a champ and a guardian as your main tank is that the guardian has essentially 100% I can not die cooldowns while champs don't. You can almost get as much health as a guardian if you A. buy stat tomes and B. use 2 100+ morale relics instead of battle settings(not that I do that but thats how you can make yourself a tank) Our avoidances and mitigations are very similiar to a guardians so again the only real difference is the effectiveness of the preventive/I don't want to die cooldowns. All it takes for a champion to tank is a champ that knows how to use the skills available to them( stance dancing pots cooldowns kiting etc) and attention from your healers.
As for wardens tanking I've never liked them, not because they can't hold aggro, but because if they get hit hard theres very little the warden can do. They have no super cooldowns or even subpar ones like dire need adamant etc. They have to hope that they have a pot up, get heals super fast, or avoid attacks. Also personally medium armor tanks? pffft :P
Disclaimer: Wardens can tank, I just don't think they are as effective played by a player of a different tank class at the same skill level(guardian,tank traited champ.)
I think elros9999 hit it right, If you know how to use your skills you can tank everything. A player who dont know his class will not be a good tank,even if he play a guard.
Only thing we really miss is an AoE taunt,if your fellowship stick on the assist target and you use rising ire on the 2nd biggest hitter/healer, you will never have to use your taunt.If they dont it can get ugly...but its not the champ fault
Pfft my guardian tanked 13 mobs at once yesterday .... with uh 2 pledges and an elf racial rofl + a good back up of healing. Behind every good tank, is a minstrel or rune keeper healing till they drop. If you have a bit of healing, more than just 1 group healer, I'd say a champ can shine pretty good being all that aoe dps while tanking is great.
An experienced warden is the best tank in the game while a good guard can out tank a good warden any day. And as to off tanks. The warden wins again due to morale leeches that affect up to ten targets. Champs need to stick witch dps.
My personal experience says that after RoI champions can tank if they need to. Of course they are much more useful to a group if they are filling their primary role (aka spreading death and terrorizing mobs) but if needed, they can tank 100%. Provided that they are well-geared and know how to tank of course
I have succesfully tanked all RoI 3-mans T2 (in Fervour too), the new 6-man T2, most of the skirmish raids as 6-man, and the 3 out of 4 wings in ToO T1 (havent tried the lightning one).
If your setup and gear is good and your healer is not blind then you will find it easy to tank anything. If your healer is great, it will feel like a walk in the park, like any good guard or warden would feel tanking the same content. Ok, not sure about the warden...
Folks, the question was not "are guardians and wardens better tanks?" but "can champions tank?". The answer to that is : Yes, they can.
+rep to you. People always start comparing us to other classes, and I fail to see why? We are a DPS class, but we are just as much a tanking class. We are far more superior than any warden or guardian, or any other DPS class. We have AOE and we can kill anything that moves fast, multiple targets is not an issue for us.
No, but serious, stop comparing Guardians, Wardens and Champs. Especially in this thread, stay on topic. Can Champs tank? Yes they can. End of story.
An experienced warden is the best tank in the game while a good guard can out tank a good warden any day. And as to off tanks. The warden wins again due to morale leeches that affect up to ten targets. Champs need to stick witch dps.
Is this a joke? No warden can be the best tank in the game in its current form. They take too much damage (66% more than guards). I'd argue that champs are better off in every area except threat generation.
Best tank in the game...that's too funny. You should go post that in the warden forums, everyone there would just say, "nope guards are by a mile."
If you haven't played since the level cap was 65, then you really have no idea what you're talking about.
edit: just noticed necro (thanks for pointing it out) - in sep 2010 wardens may have had the capability to be on par with heavy tanks...its not that way right now. There is a champ tank thread in general discussion too.
Wardens are in a rough spot right now; you'd be better off taking a blue traited champ than a warden, not for threat but at least for survivability.
Tanking 3-6 mans is easy, tanking raids is a different story... I find it pretty tough to maintain agro during trash pulls where I have to be careful about using raging blades and blade wall for fear of breaking cc. Survivability is an issue since our bubbles basically block one hit from a raid boss. The only thing that really works is invincible, but against tactical damage it's not nearly as good.
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Can champions tank?
yes they can tank well just like guards or warden it just depends on the person playing the class not the class it's self...
Wardens can tank just as well as guards but like i said it depends on the player... if you as a healer want to pay attention more to the DPS then the tank get a guard, if you want to pay more attention to the tank then the DPS get a warden if you want to pay attention to both the DPS and Tank get a champ... it's not the traits that do anything with tanking it's the awareness of the player where the threat gen. can be a problem or not, if a warden is tired he can screw up on a gambit, if a guard is tired he can screw up by not using a taunt, if a champ is tired he may screw up on his threat gen. skills and use the wrong ones... but if the warden, guard or champ is aware of the situation at hand all 3 can be great, successful tanks in any instance or raid there is to offer.
Can champions tank?
yes they can tank well just like guards or warden it just depends on the person playing the class not the class it's self...
Wardens can tank just as well as guards but like i said it depends on the player... if you as a healer want to pay attention more to the DPS then the tank get a guard, if you want to pay more attention to the tank then the DPS get a warden if you want to pay attention to both the DPS and Tank get a champ... it's not the traits that do anything with tanking it's the awareness of the player where the threat gen. can be a problem or not, if a warden is tired he can screw up on a gambit, if a guard is tired he can screw up by not using a taunt, if a champ is tired he may screw up on his threat gen. skills and use the wrong ones... but if the warden, guard or champ is aware of the situation at hand all 3 can be great, successful tanks in any instance or raid there is to offer.
Not to burst your bubble, but wardens aren't even close to guards when it comes to tanking. You can thank RoI for that one. I saw you have a low 60s warden and a mid 20s champ. Get to cap on both and tank things and let me know what you think about the capabilities of each class.
Not to burst your bubble, but wardens aren't even close to guards when it comes to tanking. You can thank RoI for that one. I saw you have a low 60s warden and a mid 20s champ. Get to cap on both and tank things and let me know what you think about the capabilities of each class.
Yes, just because I have low level toon's obviously means I as a player don't know what im talking about...
I never said that Wardens were close to guards as tanks I said (if you read what i did say) it's not the class it's the player who plays the class, yes sure RoI basically broke the Warden and made the Guardian/Champion easier to tank with but that's the class not the PLAYER if a PLAYER who knows his class inside and out he can use it effectively without any screw up's then all 3 are good choices... but even since U5 (which helped warden tanking) the wardens are the least desirable of the 3 tanks because they are technically still broken until U6 or U7...
Yes, just because I have low level toon's obviously means I as a player don't know what im talking about...
I never said that Wardens were close to guards as tanks I said (if you read what i did say) it's not the class it's the player who plays the class, yes sure RoI basically broke the Warden and made the Guardian/Champion easier to tank with but that's the class not the PLAYER if a PLAYER who knows his class inside and out he can use it effectively without any screw up's then all 3 are good choices... but even since U5 (which helped warden tanking) the wardens are the least desirable of the 3 tanks because they are technically still broken until U6 or U7...
Mmkay, again, and this time in the face of thread necromancy, the question was " Can champions tank?". The answer to that is "Yes, they can." Had the question been "Can Wardens tank?" or " Are Wardens Ye Doomed Beyonde Ye Repairre?" then we could discuss wardens. This is about champions however.
Yes, just because I have low level toon's obviously means I as a player don't know what im talking about...
That is exactly what I was getting at.
You don't know what its like to be at mitigation caps or to have mobs burn through your avoidance due to finesse. You literally have no idea what its like to get smashed in Tower of Orthanc. You can't even tell my your personal opinions on agression or potency because you've never used them.
Originally Posted by Barney1119
I never said that Wardens were close to guards as tanks I said (if you read what i did say) it's not the class it's the player who plays the class, yes sure RoI basically broke the Warden and made the Guardian/Champion easier to tank with but that's the class not the PLAYER if a PLAYER who knows his class inside and out he can use it effectively without any screw up's then all 3 are good choices... but even since U5 (which helped warden tanking) the wardens are the least desirable of the 3 tanks because they are technically still broken until U6 or U7...
You said:
Wardens can tank just as well as guards but like i said it depends on the player...
It doesn't always depend on the player. Equally skilled and geared warden and guard, guard is better hands down unless you are talking about kiting Barrow Downs Survival. So no, wardens can't tank as well as guards and no it doesn't always depend on the player.
If you'd like to argue more about wardens inadequacies please get some end game experience first. Everything seems great about the class until you get to some raids at level cap.
Edit: If you've convinced yourself that wardens are equal to guards and that you are going to prove it to everyone when you get to 75, stop right now and roll a different class. That is good advice.
Edit: If you've convinced yourself that wardens are equal to guards and that you are going to prove it to everyone when you get to 75, stop right now and roll a different class. That is good advice.
I have not convinced my self that Warden's are equal to or better then Guardian's I simply stated that Wardens are ABOUT as good as them IF the PLAYER playing the class KNOW'S his class, I never said that they were better nor will they be due to mit's and the large difference in armour bonuses compared to Guardians... But, as you say that I don't know what I am talking about because I have low level toon's, did you not think that maybe I can get information from other players that have toon's at level cap? did you not take into account that maybe I like to know what I will be going up against in the future as I level my toons with which I ask higher level players if they have any good information? Because of the warden changes I have practically stopped using my warden eccept when I run GB/GA's for the lower level players that would like some help in fact I will be getting my champ to 75 because of the fact that warden's are not that great of tanks past level 66 where half the content doesnt scale to the requirments of what the warden can and cannot do...
Now before you say that because I as a player don't have experience with end game what I say does not reflect the true meaning of what I think, I will say this one thing, I like to know a head of time with what I am up against as i said in the above paragraph so I tend to ask players who are at level cap who have done the instances if they could give me any information of what happens after dunland and so forth.
Wardens are ABOUT as good as them IF the PLAYER playing the class KNOW'S his class.
I know my warden and her a$$ backwards. I played her better than most guards. Do I still play her at end game for raid content or the harder stuff? Nope I don't for my main is now a Glorious Champ who can tank and make things cry while bleeding out their ears from the sound of SHINGSHING!
Thank you my dear Warden for the many lessons I learnt, thank you my awesome Champion for allowing me to put those lessons into practise.
Can Champions Tank? Don't hedge your bets on that one, you'll be in for some nasty reprisal and nobody will come to your sudden defense.
Champs can tank. This does not mean that any champ you pick up will be able to, but as a class, champs can tank. More mitigation than wardens, less avoidance, our aoes and overall dps evens out the fewer aggro skills; oh, and turbine made us endgame tank gear. We can, but many don't know how to.
I have not convinced my self that Warden's are equal to or better then Guardian's I simply stated that Wardens are ABOUT as good as them IF the PLAYER playing the class KNOW'S his class, I never said that they were better nor will they be due to mit's and the large difference in armour bonuses compared to Guardians... But, as you say that I don't know what I am talking about because I have low level toon's, did you not think that maybe I can get information from other players that have toon's at level cap? did you not take into account that maybe I like to know what I will be going up against in the future as I level my toons with which I ask higher level players if they have any good information? Because of the warden changes I have practically stopped using my warden eccept when I run GB/GA's for the lower level players that would like some help in fact I will be getting my champ to 75 because of the fact that warden's are not that great of tanks past level 66 where half the content doesnt scale to the requirments of what the warden can and cannot do...
Now before you say that because I as a player don't have experience with end game what I say does not reflect the true meaning of what I think, I will say this one thing, I like to know a head of time with what I am up against as i said in the above paragraph so I tend to ask players who are at level cap who have done the instances if they could give me any information of what happens after dunland and so forth.
So the whole basis for your argument about wardens being 'about as good as guardians' is that someone told you it was the case?
I know my warden and her a$$ backwards. I played her better than most guards. Do I still play her at end game for raid content or the harder stuff? Nope I don't for my main is now a Glorious Champ who can tank and make things cry while bleeding out their ears from the sound of SHINGSHING!
Thank you my dear Warden for the many lessons I learnt, thank you my awesome Champion for allowing me to put those lessons into practise.
Can Champions Tank? Don't hedge your bets on that one, you'll be in for some nasty reprisal and nobody will come to your sudden defense.
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