Thread: Removing Radiance?

Originally Posted by Handiir

Whether it is radiance or or difficulty, HMs, etc. I am still assuming there will be a new form of gating coming. There needs to be a separation between the people that put effort into playing and the people that just expect everything to be handed out to them. Gating in some form is a good thing for MMOs. No one wants to be grouped up with bad players. checking to see how much radiance someone has was a quick way to know how much work someone put into their class. But going back to my point, mark my words now there will still be some form of gating to come, even if it is just difficulty of content. Casual players should not have the same gear as the raiders who put time an effort into learning raids and playing hard. I think Turbine would and does agree.

So with Radiance leaving dont be too quick to rejoice. I think radiance had its issues but it purpose was needed, to separate the hard core from the casuals. This game is predominately causal based, but there still needs to be something for those of us who work hard all week long. If we all can be equals but put in different amount on play time and work then what is the point?

The bigger issue in all this i think is that Turbine is giving us more ways to ear radiance as a ramp to getting to BG. Ex helegrod and Annuminas sets make it easier to raid in BG cause they will give more options on what to wear in BG. Ok, but if they are taking away radiance then what is the point? Were getting new content, multiple ramps to getting to the top of the end game content, but only to have what we've been working on taken away? Turbine please make up your mind when you make decisions and stop changing things down the road once they have failed. If you really want to make the game more noob/ casual friendly just reduce the amount of dread that stacks in HMs, but leave the gating. It is needed. The majority of the people in this game cannot play their class as intended already. Lets not make the player base worse but not give people challenges and reasons to have to play harder.


Summary. Gating= good. We need division between good/ bad players. Lastly there always will be a noticeable difference between those that work hard and those that dont. Turbine knows this. So if your thinking you will be able to have the same gear and clear the same content as the top tier groups now that radiance is going away, dont get too excited just yet.

Yes, my master. We just can't lower ourselves to the level of those people.

Nonsense like this is what makes this announcement soooo sweet. Gosh, coulda sworn I didn't suck in raids before the radiance dullfest made me not want to bother anymore, thanks for telling me! I guess I'll have to settle for being a horrible player who wants 'everything handed to them.'

I'm going to assume that somewhere through these 8 pages someone mentioned the fact that they could just reallocate the rad points into the rest of the stats therefore bringing them into slightly better line with "comparable" gear. If not there it is. If so carry on.

Also betting that hope/radiance will be pushed into a virtue earned potentially via new gate quests. DDO has pre-req (gate) quests before the final raid, it seems to work there.

Perhaps Turbine listened to those of us against a "gearscore" mechanic? Gives me hope they listened about the unwanted meters also.

Great news, especially if it's switched to a passive # gained via 1 time deeds (like completing certain sections).

Originally Posted by bastiat1

Um, why would you want to go to BG now? I've been grinding BG to get the Radiance for the next raid. Now that there is no Radiance gate on the next raid, and since the BG gear sucks, and since the BG jewelry drops suck, and since Symbols can be purchased for skirmish marks, I kind of wonder why you would repeatedly run BG. It's fun to do a few times, but without the reward they just killed a lot of incentive.

Pic Related. Its why many of us don't bother with BG.

Originally Posted by mmogaming

Ok radiance will be removed but why in the world give us new instances to give us even more radiance gear?!?!?!?!?!?!

Most likely to use as a stepping stone for BG. Why would you raid in BG? That's up to you; some of us like raiding for what it is; others do it for the material reward. Whatever floats your boat, really.

It does, though, bring up the ever-going issue about instance/raid rewards.

I'm staying out of this one. I'm going to sit back and wait for the threads that follow once Radiance is actually gone. Sometimes you get what you ask for then find out it wasn't at what you'd hoped for. Kind of like how scaling old instances to 65 sounded all awesome on the forums...

This will not turn out at all like anyone expects, I guarantee it.

Originally Posted by Killien

Hopefully with the end of radiance we'll see the end of these kinds of blanket statements...

I appreciate and applaud Turbine for taking this bold measure. Radiance was really only something to keep people occupied but ended up splitting the player base and community. The best thing to replace endless rad runs is fresh, new content and with F2P I'm confident we'll get it.

Ding dong the witch is dead!

Care to go into detail? CAuse at this point i'm just assuming your one of the ones that just wants all the content handed to you? I dont know cause your response was kind of vague.

Originally Posted by Wizztu

Summary. Gating= good. We need division between good/ bad players. Lastly there always will be a noticeable difference between those that work hard and those that dont. Turbine knows this. So if your thinking you will be able to have the same gear and clear the same content as the top tier groups now that radiance is going away, dont get too excited just yet.



holly ****!! and all along I thought it was a GAME..you know one of those things you do for FUN!

HEY!! wheres my pay check...I've been WORKING here for over 3yrs now!!

He man your playing an MMO, this is a hobby not something you play though finish and bam your done. If this is work for you then your here for the wrong reasons and should find a new game.

Originally Posted by Degu

Yes, my master. We just can't lower ourselves to the level of those people.

Nonsense like this is what makes this announcement soooo sweet. Gosh, coulda sworn I didn't suck in raids before the radiance dullfest made me not want to bother anymore, thanks for telling me! I guess I'll have to settle for being a horrible player who wants 'everything handed to them.'

Speaking of things making sense...... listen to yourself. If you didnt suck before, then you shouldnt now right? ok so lets go with that assumption. Now if your having issue because you dont have the right gear..... then go get it. I'm sick of people complaining cause they cant do content because they lack gear. The ways to get it are out there. Turbine has given you tons of ways to prepare for BG. So go do content and everyone needs to stop complaining. Settle where you want but the point was raised that is very valid. Turbine got tired of people complaining so they are taking away radiance, ok fine, so casuals and people who dont put effort out can get into BG now, fine. All that will happen now is people will go in their unprepared and complain it is too hard for them.

Turbine... stop changing the game!
All the time MMO companies ruin their own games.
Everquest is not the same great game it was.
WoW is not the same great game it was.
And now LOTRO gives in to the Instance Porting, Non Radiance, Token System etc.

Im just sick of it. Take your golf and your pop culture referances, because Im tired of it!!!!

People who think there isn't going to be some type of another gate instead of radiance make me lol. Radiance is stupid easy to get now. What we will get instead of radiance might be worse. Be careful what you wish for...

I'm okay with removing radiance, even though I'm probably in the 'have' column more than the 'have not.' The more access people have to content, the more justification Turbine has in creating it. Hopefully, people won't get discouraged after the fifteenth wipe. They may come to the conclusion that they might need to get better, learn the subtleties of their class, study the mechanics of the encounters, have virtue traits that are higher than 7, work on their LIs, learn how their class' trait sets work, work within their kinship to improve one another, and bring extra supplies to the raid. Eventually, that'll increase the number of people completing the raid, and encourage Turbine to create more challenging (albeit non-gated) content down the road.

Real Rewards need to be inside the instances for people to attempt/re-run. BG's gear was a nerf so why would you go bar to obtain radiance? For some the challenge is there (I love BG) but the loot is dire.


That question about radiance was sent mid way through I think (Forgot to ss my log lol) so happy they announced it!

Radiance gating killed this game's player population.

Talk about a ridiculous idea... radiance/gear gating was it.


I never logged in my highbie characters again after being introduced to the Radiance Gating. I've forever "lived" in the Shadows of Angmar and the Ettenmoors since then.

I don't care what anyone says... folks can be excellent at their class... the very best... yet be marginalized by the gear gating system only because they don't have a Kin of raiders at their back nor the time to game daily for hours on end.


I thank Turbine immensely for stating the radiance gating will be removed. In its place, how about an increase in Hope Token power and/or a virtue system where players can grind solo that which is needed for later instance.

I only hope the removal of radiance gating occurs sooner rather than later...

Originally Posted by Panahasi

Radiance gating killed this game's player population.

Talk about a ridiculous idea... radiance/gear gating was it.


I never logged in my highbie characters again after being introduced to the Radiance Gating. I've forever "lived" in the Shadows of Angmar and the Ettenmoors since then.

I don't care what anyone says... folks can be excellent at their class... the very best... yet be marginalized by the gear gating system only because they don't have a Kin of raiders at their back nor the time to game daily for hours on end.


I thank Turbine immensely for stating the radiance gating will be removed. In its place, how about an increase in Hope Token power and/or a virtue system where players can grind solo that which is needed for later instance.

I only hope the removal of radiance gating occurs sooner rather than later...

Maybe for you but for still quite a few Radiance wasnt the issue it was the rewards the raids posed. Anyone would go for it if there is something to improve your toon inside but letws face it BG's gear was a nerf . Radiance wasnt difficult to obtain either.

radiance gating is for people to run instances turbine painstaking took time/effort to create via various of their design teams

if there is no gating, people will just run those freshly minted instance once and come here to whine they are bored with the content and have nothing to do, and do a ragequit

however, too much radiance gating or too much grind and people will get frustured and start to quit too

its actually to balance both that matters

Well, i had quit LOTRO the day it was announced radiance will be required beyond Watcher. But i also said that when radiance is gone i might be back (played on EU servers and had 7 chars in 50-60 range, 400+ gold and 2 chars with 60 rad)

Well today i gave Turbine 50 bucks for admitting radiance was a mistake and needs to be thrown under the train, and small satisfaction of sayin "i told ya so"

Lets have game based on people (SoA) not gear (MoM+). Two thumbs up Turbine, deed gating ala GB and Hele is much better.

Radiance was really convenient, in that it keeps many casual players with often lesser-experience-levels out of end game content and away from the Wipe-Raid-Button. So we'll get a new gate eventually, and the moaning and groaning will start again. Bottom line, the issue is that those with less time on their hands and a real entitlement addiction want content dragged down so they can participate.

Can't wait to hear what the new gating system is.

Originally Posted by CWood

First: Halle-****ing-lujah.

Second: Here's hoping whatever it's replaced with isn't twice as asinine.

Best...post...in...this...thre ad!

I've seen the radiance grind tear apart 3 kins....cause adoption of DKP, seen the DKP rules twisted to service a few, seen folks shutout who signed up early for kin raids, etc, etc......brought out the worst in some. I frankly got so sick of the greed it promoted, I quit doing any raids when Mirkwood came out and the third kin imploded. It was unhealthy to the game, and I'll be happy when it's gone.

As far as the second point...unfortunately, I expect to see exactly what we both hope against......but, hopefully, it won't marginialize crafters more than they already have (Is that possible?).

Originally Posted by ArcticAurora

Radiance was really convenient, in that it keeps many casual players with often lesser-experience-levels out of end game content and away from the Wipe-Raid-Button. So we'll get a new gate eventually, and the moaning and groaning will start again. Bottom line, the issue is that those with less time on their hands and a real entitlement addiction want content dragged down so they can participate.

Can't wait to hear what the new gating system is.

You do realise that this is just a game, right? And if you don't want to run raids with 'lesser-experience-levels' then don't. I'm sure you could find some 'more-experience-levels' friends you could raid with.

See? You can have a raid and not worry about other people who are raiding, even if they have 'lesser-experience-levels'. Gosh. Everyone is happy.

GREAT NEWS!

Praying that this means Turbine is going back to their original vision, where inclusion and story and fun were the concepts that fueled the game.

Now ease back a touch on "challenge" and then notify all those casual and normal players that left that they have their LotRO back so we can have the great, unique game with the wonderful community that we once had.

Originally Posted by Goibhnie

I'm going to assume that somewhere through these 8 pages someone mentioned the fact that they could just reallocate the rad points into the rest of the stats therefore bringing them into slightly better line with "comparable" gear. If not there it is. If so carry on.

Radiance does not replace stats on gear. That has been confirmed by devs several times in the past. Radiance isn't what's holding them back from giving us better stuff, something else is, but we don't know what.

Originally Posted by ArcticAurora

Radiance was really convenient, in that it keeps many casual players with often lesser-experience-levels out of end game content and away from the Wipe-Raid-Button. So we'll get a new gate eventually, and the moaning and groaning will start again. Bottom line, the issue is that those with less time on their hands and a real entitlement addiction want content dragged down so they can participate.

Can't wait to hear what the new gating system is.

Somehow, it's always easy to spot the people with real life self esteem issues on a forum.

Newsflash: content is for everyone that pays for it, not just those who "work" for it. And personally, I pay to play, not to work.

Wonderful news, so long as the replacement isn't for all intents and purposes 'radiance' by another name.

Gating is rarely a good thing, it usually only separates those with free time from those who have little. The current minimum 'gate' requires only a modicum of skill (i.e. grinding Sword Halls Easy Mode), which in turn requires a significant time investment - especially if one has multiple characters to gear (how many people *really* want to repeat that instance ad nauseum just to get the gear? It may be easy, but there are a fair amount of people who look at the grind, shrug, and ignore it to go and and do something more enjoyable).

What I'd like to see is a 'Ironman/Ironwoman' server established, with suitable rules etc. Those who have the hard core mindset that only play for the challenge can have their playground without having to impose it on those who have more laid back personalities.

I have heard that LOTRO will be going back to the old rift-style lock and key system when radiance is removed, but cannot find confirmation on this.

Can someone comment, possibly with a link to this information?

Or, can someone from Turbine comment on this?

Also, since the cat is out of the bag, per sey, is there a way to get an approximate date that things will change so we don't spend weeks/months getting gear only to find out its suddenly obsolete or something...?

Radiance Gating killed this games small Kin playerbase.

The fact that its being removed is a good thing.

Lets hope they dont replace it with an even more tedious Gating mechanism.

But from the new Helegrod it looks like they are thinking of a deed system. That will work for the horde of players doing it now, but 6 months from now, it will be a tiresome barrier to new / slow / late players.

Gate raids by difficulty of the encounter NOT by artificial mechanisms!

very pleased about this, running Watcher, DN and BG were always things that I'd get to do eventually once I could be bothered with grinding the radiance.

what is suprising to me is that people think removing Radiance will make raids and instances obsolete, it wasn't so before radiance when people ran instances just for fun and the hope of getting some good gear so why would it be so post-radiance? I'm hoping the days when even my then badly geared Hunter could just jump into a raid like the Rift with his kin and have some fun will return.

Originally Posted by jhan75

if there is no gating, people will just run those freshly minted instance once and come here to whine they are bored with the content and have nothing to do, and do a ragequit

I'm not sure I get this line of logic. So you're saying that all anyone did was run the rift once and then rage quit after they got their set? I don't know about that. My former kin ran the rift 3-4 times a week for several months before people started getting bored with it, and even then we continued to farm it to get people the armour/rare drops they wanted. We weren't a huge kin (usually only about 20-30 really active members) but we could even run it multiple times a night since so many of us had alts we could jump on to run it again. After MoM, alt's became too much to handle given the grind it took to get them geared well enough to successfully complete the watcher/DN. This was the beggining of the end of my kin as a viable raiding kin, and since SoM has become a non-entity on Landroval.

Originally Posted by gildhur

Radiance does not replace stats on gear. That has been confirmed by devs several times in the past. Radiance isn't what's holding them back from giving us better stuff, something else is, but we don't know what.

It's simple, the better they make the gear, the harder they have to work to make content that is a challenge. It's far easier to make dread/gloom so high that it lowers our effective level and jack up the levels of the mobs, while at the same time making the gear we get sub-par to anything we got earlier in game (but increasing the rad so we have to use it) than it is to put some thought into challenging boss fights. There are a myriad ways they could make these fights more challenging, but the easiest is to gimp the player with artificial gating, stat capping, and poor equipment.

Had a disturbing thought, what if they are removing radiance and replacing it with....HOPE!

muahahahahahaha.....

Personally I hope they leave it alone. I put in alot of time getting my radiance(pre mirkwood moria coins). They've already made it so utterly easy now to run GS over and over and SH over and over and your raid ready for BG. My biggest thing is from the more limited play time people who say that they dont have the time to grind for gear. Well two really fast and easy runs doesnt take long at all to gear out but to run DN/BG you need to dedicate hours for filling the raid up to getting started to potential wipes and runbacks. There will just be another gate anyway. Its the grind that keeps alot of people paying trying to further gear and stat their toons out. Ive already ground out 170 rad I really dont wanna go grind something else.

Problem with the radiance system thus far is that it is a grind gate instead of a skill gate, and that it greatly restricts which armor items we can use.

Create a gate based on deeds - complete all deeds related to the cluster and then you can go into the raid is the most sustainable.

So here is my question...

Did the person who invented Radiance Rage-Quit Turbine when you finally told him you were putting his horse down...?

Seriously though, so many of us have just accepted Radiance as a necessary evil of the game that we barely remember the way it used to be. I, too, recall being in 2 pretty awesome kins and watching them get gutted as a result of the Radiance mechanic. It was so long ago, however, and we all adapt to changes... taking the good with the bad.

The BIG question is always going to be... how do you give the fulltime raiders incentive to run that 3 hour raid and still not make the part-timers, solo'ers, and small kins feel that they are missing out?

Well, I think the result of the Radiance experiment brings us full-circle back to the beginning... All you really have to do is add pieces of gear to the big raids that give those people a little e-peen. The gear does not have to be that much better than what else is available. If it has 20 more Morale or 5 more Agility it is going to make people want to run raids for it. People will always be drawn to getting that thing that is better than everyone else; that's just how people are. There must be a balance of course... so finding that sweet spot where that loot is worth running a raid for can be tricky, but it is not impossible. This is the way it was with Shadows of Angmar and so far seems to be the only way that is fair to everyone.

Originally Posted by spiritintelligencia

The BIG question is always going to be... how do you give the fulltime raiders incentive to run that 3 hour raid and still not make the part-timers, solo'ers, and small kins feel that they are missing out?

The same way you did with the Rift. Make it a GOOD raid with GOOD rewards. However, part-timers and small kins didn't feel left out with the Rift because there was no hard gate that kept them out of it. My small kin ran the Rift constantly with a loose alliance of other kins. I look forward to doing so again.

Originally Posted by gildhur

The same way you did with the Rift. Make it a GOOD raid with GOOD rewards. However, part-timers and small kins didn't feel left out with the Rift because there was no hard gate that kept them out of it. My small kin ran the Rift constantly with a loose alliance of other kins. I look forward to doing so again.

my thoughts exactly, I just did the spider wing of Helegrod, it just sort of happened, my kin was planning on doing just the begining of it so we could get Helegrod marks because you can 6 man that part, we ended up having enough people join that we just ran the entire wing, it was chaotic, we wiped hard on the boss, but it was fun even if we didn't get anything from it. that's how I like my raids, anyone can come and it can just happen, it doesn't have to be planned in advance, you don't have to make sure everyone has the right gear, you can just jump in and have fun.

Originally Posted by gildhur

The same way you did with the Rift. Make it a GOOD raid with GOOD rewards. However, part-timers and small kins didn't feel left out with the Rift because there was no hard gate that kept them out of it. My small kin ran the Rift constantly with a loose alliance of other kins. I look forward to doing so again.

I remember those days. Friday night... afew hours of playtime.... some great friends.... one helluva good time... and a few cold drinks! There was nothing like it.

I've long hated the radiance system, and was very happy to hear they plan to do away with it. I personally don't like any gate at all--the old Rift system was greatm IMO. It was a skill gate: lots of folks never got Thaurlach down, but at least it was easier to try.

That being said, a lot of players really like having a gate, and just because I don't that doesn't make their point of view invalid. But tying the gate to armor was very annoying--you HAD to wear specific radiance gear to raid, thus limiting a player's gear choices, and forcing them down a certain path. Lots of players like to be able to pick and choose their gear based on their playstyle. So if there must be a gate, at least don't use it to force players to wear particular gear. Doing so undermines the crafting system, as well as the viability of using non-radiance gear, some of which can be quite good.

I like the gate I read about where you are gated for the raid once you complete all four wings. It allows some gating mechanism, but takes away the necessity for luck or grinding.

Some of my friends and I threw a party to celebrate the removal of radiance! Metalsmith and Tailor goods will have value again.

Originally Posted by gildhur

The same way you did with the Rift. Make it a GOOD raid with GOOD rewards. However, part-timers and small kins didn't feel left out with the Rift because there was no hard gate that kept them out of it. My small kin ran the Rift constantly with a loose alliance of other kins. I look forward to doing so again.

Well said.

The only gate behind the Rift and Helegrod was skill. Those dungeons were tough. And they still can pose some challenges to level capped players. But that still did not exclude "casual" players from participating. All they had to do was be willing to cooperate and learn from experienced players. "Casual" doesn't mean "I like it easy". It means "I don't want to grind the same instance 5 hours a day every day of the week so I can get enough Radiance to do another raid".

Walking into the Rift as a complete noob (we've all been there) was fun and thrilling. Daily Rad runs aren't either.

See ya later, Radiance. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.