Thread: Removing Radiance?

Iam wondering if the drop direction on the raids will go like ive seen on other f2p servers raid bosses drop shop content so an example will be +10 stat boosts etc hot pots cosmetics you name it... obviously they will add new cool stuff but i wouldnt be suprised to see stuff from the shop drop.

Glad to see Radiance going though so sweet i can now equip my toons in kit which suits them better.

Originally Posted by Magian

It becomes my problem when I join a pug group. I don't group exclusively with kin. I sometimes pug SG, 2.6.8, or whatever else. I join PUG and non-kin raids (when locks allowed) to help them out.

It affects me.

The former two you don't need radiance to do, so you're already grouping possibly with people who do not raid.

And, as others have mentioned, radiance does not mean that the player is necessarily very skilled in different situations, or even at all. It depends on the kin and the individual.

But - the armor is still good? Right? Worth grinding for.... right? LOL


SH is still good for IXP coins... I guess.

Originally Posted by Laire

The former two you don't need radiance to do, so you're already grouping possibly with people who do not raid.

And, as others have mentioned, radiance does not mean that the player is necessarily very skilled in different situations, or even at all. It depends on the kin and the individual.

I know that I don't need radiance for non-raid content.

You missed my point completely.

They are getting rid of Radiance in favor of....


wait for it....



luminosity... or choose from one of the other similar words I found on thesaurus.com:


brilliance, effulgence, glare, gleam, glitter, glow, incandescence, light, luster, resplendence, shine

I hope it's moonshine!




lol, I need a drink, where's the soup of the day: Whiskey!

This is a horrible decision to remove radiance.
Radiance gating has prevented Turbine from having to nerf very challenging boss fights in both Moria and Mirkwood for the more casual kins.

Radiance gating keeps those players who want challenging content satisfied.
My biggest fear is that once radiance is removed the more casual kins will be more vocal about the raiding content as they call for nerfs.

Really hope I'm wrong but I'm just remembering what it was like in the Rift/Helegrod days.

Originally Posted by Trantor

This is a horrible decision to remove radiance.
Radiance gating has prevented Turbine from having to nerf very challenging boss fights in both Moria and Mirkwood for the more casual kins.

Radiance gating keeps those players who want challenging content satisfied.
My biggest fear is that once radiance is removed the more casual kins will be more vocal about the raiding content as they call for nerfs.

Really hope I'm wrong but I'm just remembering what it was like in the Rift/Helegrod days.

They pay the same subscription as you do! They should be able to get the same loot you can!

Turbine caved on radiance, challenge is next.

Best decision.

LOTRO has all the challenge you want now. Set a skirmish for +5 levels, run an instance far above level.

To require one specific trait jut to be able to do a quest, and 100% failure if you did not have it, is not a challenge. Its not like you had to do the 5 quests to get to final challenge, you had to do it over and over to get everyone the pieces to move on.

Grinding the same quest over and over is not skill or a challenge, its work. I like to get paid real cash when I work. I play LOTRO to have fun. I can do one weekend of real work, and buy everything in the store, but why? The challenge is to win it in game, the second its work to get it, I'll buy it.

If radiance would have stayed it would be in the store, or some potion to make you dread -proof for an hour or so so you would not need radiance armor. I feel that would be worse to the game, than removing radiance all together.

Originally Posted by Sapience

It was no a joke. Radiance will be removed from LOTRO. I'm not sure which update, but it won't be this week.

As an old WoW raider, I can't tell you how much this gladdens me! Gear gating is an outdated solution to the raiding issue.

If Turbine is serious about keeping all of their instanced content relevant with auto-leveling, there is no longer any need to gear-gate players to slow down their progression. In fact, "progression" becomes an outdated concept when there are multiple viable sources for endgame game.

Achievement gating (preferably through the epic quest line!) would seem like a very good lore fit for LOTRO.

Good riddance to this abomination of game development- thank you Turb!

Just wish we had an infinitely-replayable instance where we could watch radiance perish, slowly and painfully, in the fires of the accursed mountain it was forged from.

Originally Posted by kyleh613

Thanks Turbine for once again taking out any semblance of challenge to cater to your whiny casual playerbase. When are you guys going to just give everyone best in slot items for free once they hit level 65? Getting frustrated with the lack of any sort of challenging content in this game. Its bad enough that I have a hard time seeing where the multiplayer comes into play in LOTRO.

Right on keep up the fight!!!! Make everyone learn how to raid by doing SH 100 times.

Would be nice to see a big bonfire in the center of Bree where everyone can go and toss thier Rad gear in and watch it melt.

What to say, what to say...

In before lock?

There, I've contributed. Now excuse me, but the stench of elitism is threatening to make me pass out.

Originally Posted by Druc

Right on keep up the fight!!!! Make everyone learn how to raid by doing SH 100 times.

You do realize most raiders despised the +15/+25 sets, right? They completely invalidated previous raids. Most I know would have preferred BG to require a DN set which required a Watcher set, the +25 set was insulting to some people I know.

You are in a small room with shelves on the walls. There is a jar of gasoline on one of the shelves.

> Pick up gasoline.

You are now holding the jar of gasoline.

> Walk north.

You are in a large room full of people talking. There is a large bonfire in the center of the room.

> Walk to bonfire.

You are standing next to a large bonfire, which is making your clothes hot. You may want to move soon...

> Pour gasoline on fire.

...so, yeah, some of the attitudes I'm seeing in this thread from the l33td00dz seem to me to be a pretty convincing argument against DPS meters.

Certainly the itemization concerns are valid. Aside from the radiance, the only reason I'd want the Guard BG set is because it looks cool. Hopefully the removal of radiance will usher in a new era of actually improving our gear in raids. And for those who think you'll be able to just waltz into any raid you want now, I'd think again. Mavery has it right: there needs to be replayability and gating to extend content. The days of going into the Rift with whatever gear you happen to have are long gone, I suspect.

But all this blather about "zomg tehy set us teh bomb! No more challenge! Teh n00bs are killing the game" is really showing some true colors. No way do I want DPS meters in the hands of these yahoos.

Originally Posted by Magian

I know that I don't need radiance for non-raid content.

You missed my point completely.

Magian's point perhaps needs a level of clarification that avoids any opportunity for nit-pickity pedantic dissection.

To do the raid instance "The Vile Maw", at the BARE minimum it implied that you had to successfully complete the challenge mode versions of all 6 instances (could manage with 5 AND a hope turn-in which required the ability to complete a DIFFERENT raid altogether). Namely, this meant that at the very least you, an individual character, had to display a level of skill worthy of instance play, working through mechanics or at the least basic step-by-step strategy.

Magian probably doesn't care one little bit about the actual mechanic of radiance (though the elimination of the concept RE: how to make raids ''''difficult'''' is possibly welcome). What IS of concern (and is easily argued as a problem with the Dol Guldur cluster) is that it may take even less effort or display of ability to access some of the hardest content.

Nothing wrong with EVERYONE being able to access 'the hardest content'. It's better if everyone can access all the content they have paid for.
The problem is, if you as a player, have not had any experience or demonstrated that you can at least play your character above and beyond the bare minimum to get by in solo play. The problem comes when 11 people have to take into account the 1 other person in their raid who honestly and truly CANNOT grasp how to manage their class/abilities/role etc in a group situation. AoE people breaking mez's? DPS classes not knowing how to manage their aggro? Tanks who have never tanked?

Radiance wasn't the best and (thankfully) won't be a good indication of whether someone is capable to complete content above and beyond "Auto-attack until enemy is dead, repeat".

What I imagine Magian would have PREFERRED (or certainly accepted) is if The Vile Maw was gated behind a deed that required you to complete all 6 Moria instances (Grand Stair, Forges, Fil Gashan, Skumfil, 16th Hall and Dark Delvings) in their CHALLENGE mode before it would unlock The Vile Maw - now with 60 less gloom than it had to begin with.

It would have been clear evidence, that either you (if accomplishing the deed in small steps within different groups) or a single group (let's say...a kinship group) are quite capable of working within a group situation. AND you'd only have to have done so ONCE (keeping in mind to this day, still the Dark Delvings cannot be just tackled with a haphazard group thinking that 5 extra levels are going to make them invincible, a basic understanding of the mechanics in that instance IS needed to succeed).

Summary:
I am glad radiance will be gone - it was an unnecessary 'scaling of difficulty' that had no end in sight for raiding (years down the track, we shine brighter than the sun with +75 radiance pieces? yuck...)
A clear gating system that gates VIA ability rather than RNG is good.
Look at Helegrod as it is now - Thorog gated behind the other 3 wings - excellent start (don't know if people think this isn't enough, but it provides a good example of how gating should work).
Heck look at Barrow Downs! Sambrog is a no-no until you beat the 2 other sections.

Ugh...finally radiance gone. Hopefully they will continue to look at smart ways of the game subtly saying "A'ight then chap...think you should come back when you're better prepared ay?".
It saves a lot of time for everyone involved.

I haven't raided since the Rift days. Can anyone guess why??? This is GREAT news! For the people complaining about challenging content, isn't that the point of Hard mode/Challenge mode in instances/raids? The casual players can run EZ mode and the hardcore players can run Hard mode. Both sides should be happy.

I wouldn't mind some form of deed gating though. Make it required that people need to complete each instance in the cluster and you get a completion deed for killing the boss. When you complete the cluster, you gain access to the raid instance forever. I wouldn't mind completing an instance once, it's just running instances over and over and over and over and over and over and over that gets old.

It's simply too early to give a thumbs up or down to this half-baked "announcement". Without more information (removing radiance (and any gating) entirely, replacing it with something that requires an identical time sink, or some other method of gating) I can't know for sure if I should be happy or not.

Hopefully, a better thought out system is in the works -- a system that opens up content (not necessarily rewards) to a wider number of players, and still provides challenging content and incentives. If not, we'll just be trading one boat anchor for another. At least for now, there will be more options while we wait to hear what "the new radiance" {shudder} will be.

Originally Posted by Ascus

Best decision.

LOTRO has all the challenge you want now. Set a skirmish for +5 levels, run an instance far above level.

To require one specific trait jut to be able to do a quest, and 100% failure if you did not have it, is not a challenge. Its not like you had to do the 5 quests to get to final challenge, you had to do it over and over to get everyone the pieces to move on.

Grinding the same quest over and over is not skill or a challenge, its work. I like to get paid real cash when I work. I play LOTRO to have fun. I can do one weekend of real work, and buy everything in the store, but why? The challenge is to win it in game, the second its work to get it, I'll buy it.

If radiance would have stayed it would be in the store, or some potion to make you dread -proof for an hour or so so you would not need radiance armor. I feel that would be worse to the game, than removing radiance all together.

Level is an extremely boring way of increasing challenge. It just becomes a bigger blob of morale you need to whittle down that hits harder and you miss more often. It doesn't do anything it didn't do at a lower level.

What makes the challenge of instanced content fun is the specially written scripts for the bosses and mobs. They don't just stand there and autoattack you while you whittle away 500k morale.

Originally Posted by Ultiheart

What I imagine Magian would have PREFERRED (or certainly accepted) is if The Vile Maw was gated behind a deed that required you to complete all 6 Moria instances (Grand Stair, Forges, Fil Gashan, Skumfil, 16th Hall and Dark Delvings) in their CHALLENGE mode before it would unlock The Vile Maw - now with 60 less gloom than it had to begin with.

Yeah. This would have been much preferable. Heck, make the deed for each instance completed by X number of HM victories so there's some level of replayability (ie, grind). Hopefully (and if the new Helegrod is any indication, this will in fact be the case) we'll see this sort of deed-based gating for raids in the future.

Sorry, just had to point out at this time that you all are running your debate between three or four vocal posters, on a topic that was overwhelming voted to be abolished/removed-from-armor by two thousand players only four scant months ago.

Your pontificating is pointless, self-aggrandizing and nauseating.

From my perspective, the hard core Wow-esque end game RAIDing mentality is in the minority among players at level 65. I always thought the radiance approach was at variance with the play styles/desires of the majority of the LOTRO player base.

Originally Posted by Sable

It's simply too early to give a thumbs up or down to this half-baked "announcement". Without more information (removing radiance (and any gating) entirely, replacing it with something that requires an identical time sink, or some other method of gating) I can't know for sure if I should be happy or not.

Hopefully, a better thought out system is in the works -- a system that opens up content (not necessarily rewards) to a wider number of players, and still provides challenging content and incentives. If not, we'll just be trading one boat anchor for another. At least for now, there will be more options while we wait to hear what "the new radiance" {shudder} will be.

Well said. A bit nervous here about what the replacement will be.

Wow this is great news. Goodbye to a much hated gating mechanic.

If they start using the deeds like they have with BArrow Downs and Helgerod with the latest update this will be a much better system. As others have said with scaling coming in all instance can remain relevant.

With this great news, I return to the General Discussion forum. Absolute, utter vindication. I left because I didn't think we were being heard about the most important things, especially the utter removal of radiance. Sorry, Magian, but for every one of you, there are a hundred, maybe a thousand, who will be able to experience the content without the stupid radiance gate. I might think about you when I run any raid I wish, with whoever wishes, because radiance will not be necessary. My entire kinship is disgusted with the radiance gate, and we don't do raiding nearly as much because of it. I see more raids in our future.

Probably won't. But I might.

As might seem obvious, I've been missing from my old "Level XX..." threads. That is mostly because I have been so disheartened that the core parts of the game, critical to the core mechanics, were being overlooked, and some of my usual irony and attempts at humor would have cut too close to reality.... Kinda like a worker displaying Dilbert cartoons where your boss resembles Dilbert's boss a little too closely. Apparently, I was wrong.

This instills me with faith again that if Turbine can commit to fixing this mechanic, they will also be able to fix LIs in much the same way: without fear, and doing whatever is right, no matter the cost. I am appreciative. Now, I need to disappear again, so that my next HATE thread finds some F2P noobs on the clueless side of Hardcore 48/7.

re: the poll on radiance

Of course the total number of people that wanted to keep radiance in some way was higher than the people that wanted it gone totally.

I think I might have actually voted to remove it entirely but it looks like the majority of players want it around, only most of them want it to be handled differently.

Originally Posted by Solien

...so, yeah, some of the attitudes I'm seeing in this thread from the l33td00dz seem to me to be a pretty convincing argument against DPS meters.

Certainly the itemization concerns are valid. Aside from the radiance, the only reason I'd want the Guard BG set is because it looks cool. Hopefully the removal of radiance will usher in a new era of actually improving our gear in raids. And for those who think you'll be able to just waltz into any raid you want now, I'd think again. Mavery has it right: there needs to be replayability and gating to extend content. The days of going into the Rift with whatever gear you happen to have are long gone, I suspect.

But all this blather about "zomg tehy set us teh bomb! No more challenge! Teh n00bs are killing the game" is really showing some true colors. No way do I want DPS meters in the hands of these yahoos.

One of the things that I like so much about this announcement is that now they can't just yank the wool over our eyes with future raid set itemization.

"It's totally an upgrade, it has more radiance" was what they gave us before, while statwise they were a downgrade. It's time they stopped that.

The Helegrod set is looking better and better. I love that we'll be able to judge gear by stats and set bonuses instead of blindly going with the most radiance.

My money is on them moving towards deed gating for future raids like they did with Helegrod (complete the 6 radiance gear instances in order to get access to VM).

Now if we could just get them to do something about the Legendary Item lottery grind...

Whether it is radiance or or difficulty, HMs, etc. I am still assuming there will be a new form of gating coming. There needs to be a separation between the people that put effort into playing and the people that just expect everything to be handed out to them. Gating in some form is a good thing for MMOs. No one wants to be grouped up with bad players. checking to see how much radiance someone has was a quick way to know how much work someone put into their class. But going back to my point, mark my words now there will still be some form of gating to come, even if it is just difficulty of content. Casual players should not have the same gear as the raiders who put time an effort into learning raids and playing hard. I think Turbine would and does agree.

So with Radiance leaving dont be too quick to rejoice. I think radiance had its issues but it purpose was needed, to separate the hard core from the casuals. This game is predominately causal based, but there still needs to be something for those of us who work hard all week long. If we all can be equals but put in different amount on play time and work then what is the point?

The bigger issue in all this i think is that Turbine is giving us more ways to ear radiance as a ramp to getting to BG. Ex helegrod and Annuminas sets make it easier to raid in BG cause they will give more options on what to wear in BG. Ok, but if they are taking away radiance then what is the point? Were getting new content, multiple ramps to getting to the top of the end game content, but only to have what we've been working on taken away? Turbine please make up your mind when you make decisions and stop changing things down the road once they have failed. If you really want to make the game more noob/ casual friendly just reduce the amount of dread that stacks in HMs, but leave the gating. It is needed. The majority of the people in this game cannot play their class as intended already. Lets not make the player base worse but not give people challenges and reasons to have to play harder.


Summary. Gating= good. We need division between good/ bad players. Lastly there always will be a noticeable difference between those that work hard and those that dont. Turbine knows this. So if your thinking you will be able to have the same gear and clear the same content as the top tier groups now that radiance is going away, dont get too excited just yet.

Originally Posted by Crissaegrim

Sorry, just had to point out at this time that you all are running your debate between three or four vocal posters, on a topic that was overwhelming voted to be abolished/removed-from-armor by two thousand players only four scant months ago.

Your pontificating is pointless, self-aggrandizing and nauseating.

what he said^^^^

thank god it's going away...and if a fix isn't found for the shiny <drum roll> Legendary Items the level "with you: I hope they hit the trash heap right after the rad ****.

I cannot think of one thing I hate more than grinding rad/li's in the entire time(since beta) i've played the game.......I know of at least 20 people that just stopped playing outright and at least double that number that play a lot less due specifically to these 2 grinds. The grind sucked, the gear sucked, and the rewards sucked..what reason was there to do any of it? e-peenage? It couldn't have been for the rewards, most of them are downgrades from what we already had!
and I wont even get into what these 2 systems have done to itemization, crafting, random loot drops,ect..they are IMHO 2 VERY poorly thought out and implemented systems. LI's had a glimmer of hope but the introduction of lvl 65's making the lvl 60's we all worked so hard to get trash, well it totally screwed that glimmer all to hell!

Summary. Gating= good. We need division between good/ bad players. Lastly there always will be a noticeable difference between those that work hard and those that dont. Turbine knows this. So if your thinking you will be able to have the same gear and clear the same content as the top tier groups now that radiance is going away, dont get too excited just yet.



holly ****!! and all along I thought it was a GAME..you know one of those things you do for FUN!

HEY!! wheres my pay check...I've been WORKING here for over 3yrs now!!

Originally Posted by Handiir

There needs to be a separation between the people that put effort into playing and the people that just expect everything to be handed out to them. Gating in some form is a good thing for MMOs. No one wants to be grouped up with bad players. checking to see how much radiance someone has was a quick way to know how much work someone put into their class.

Hopefully with the end of radiance we'll see the end of these kinds of blanket statements...

I appreciate and applaud Turbine for taking this bold measure. Radiance was really only something to keep people occupied but ended up splitting the player base and community. The best thing to replace endless rad runs is fresh, new content and with F2P I'm confident we'll get it.

Ding dong the witch is dead!

I am looking at the Remoing of the Raidaince Grind Very good news. It removes the WOW type Gear score. Where people ask is your Raidance % in lotro and having people not let you in a raid becuse it low. I think I only have Leggings and Gloves in Raidance format. So it a Low %. It not becuse I am a bad player I more into Learning all 9 Toons and all 7 crafts.

I hope it Brings in a New Crafting Age where we can Grind our Crafts and Make the Armour we beleave is Best for us and looks the the way we feel.

I am extremely pleased to see that Radiance is being permanently removed in the not-so-distant future, from a mechanics perspective. I have written a lengthy essay on the itemization imbalance ingame (the link is in my signature), and from taking a very close look... it is clear that Radiance is at the bottom of it.

Once it is removed, it will become possible to restore balance to the excellent levels which were seen in the Shadows of Angmar era.

- - - - -

As for a new kind of gating mechanic, Turbine may have already created it. As seen in the new Helegrod and Great Barrows: deed gating! That can avoid the itemization balance issues seen with Radiance, and also fulfill the original stated purpose of such gating (from a year and a half ago).

Originally Posted by Thieradan

re: the poll on radiance

Of course the total number of people that wanted to keep radiance in some way was higher than the people that wanted it gone totally.

I think I might have actually voted to remove it entirely but it looks like the majority of players want it around, only most of them want it to be handled differently.

Interpreting Survey Data Does Not Work That Way!

Originally Posted by Grampsaz

From the Dev chat in warcry.


THANK YOU!
That is all.

THANK YOU....I just may get renewed interest in the game ... now cut down a tad on "challenge" so folks can relax a little and enjoy pugs and friendly kins again and make decent legendaries getable on the slow servers and we're back to a game based on fun for all, not just your hardcore buddies.

Nice to hear it's going bye bye. Gating is no fun, grinding is no fun.

I cannot think of one thing I hate more than grinding rad/li's in the entire time(since beta) i've played the game

Um, not sure which "beta" you mean, probably Moria, cause there were "betas" before any LI or Rad had even been thought of, as well as since. When I think of beta I think of whatever beta is goin on at the time or SoA beta, but I usually try to at least say SoA, MoM, Mirk, f2p before beta so that others at least know which I mean. Then when speaking of SoA beta there were several tiers of beta. But whatever.

As to things I hate grinding most, Crafting is at the top of the list, and has been since SoA Closed Beta. It is way worse than grinding LIs or Rad. At least when you grind LIs or Rad you can actually do "something", but with grinding Crafting all you can work on is, well Crafting...which really sucks and is a HUGE waste of time.

I hope it Brings in a New Crafting Age where we can Grind our Crafts and Make the Armour we beleave is Best for us and looks the the way we feel.

And I hope they remove crafting levels and rep all together. I don't want to have to grind one more thing...by that I mean I am having to grind something that I can get most of the stuff without grinding, unlike deeds/exp/ixp, but to be able to get my top tier 4th relic for my LI, or use KSM recipes, etc, I am forced to not only grind my a$$ off just to get to Supreme Master, but now I gotta waste more of my time grinding to get Kindred, and on each toon. ***? That is way worse than grinding for gear...I had my DG rad gear in a couple days, it takes a minimum of like 8 weeks to get Kindred and that is after wasting hours and hours grinding to get Supreme Master.

MY opinion, get rid of crafting levels and crafting rep. If I am a tailor allow me to be able to use any recipe I choose from any tier. If rad is such a huge problem that lazy people can't take a little time to grind gear while actually getting other deeds/exp/ixp/quests/etc done then those same people should be throwing a HUGE B***h fest about being forced to grind Crapping...er Crafting to SM then still having to spend another 8 weeks grinding out Kindred. That's just F'n ********.

That should have been the first thing that was changed. then the LI system. Then if there was any more time in the life of a coder once that was done, then work on getting rid of Rad.