Thread: Whats with mini DPS?

I, and perhaps others, just need a thread to vent some frustration over the INSANE dps of a HEALING class. How is it possible that most minis in WS can out DPS a rank 11 BA who is traited for damage? I mean, my class is designed for DPS isnt it? Are minis not made for healing? Discuss and/or vent your frustrations.

they're only a healing class when they have warspeech off, when WS is on their healing drops down to around 25%.

The 25% less healing does nothing to alter their INSANE dps and the fact that a healer can STILL out DPS a rank 11 ba traited for damage.

But it's mostly burst dps. Minstrels in ws consume a ton of power so they can not sustain
the dps.

Originally Posted by NinetyEight

But it's mostly burst dps. Minstrels in ws consume a ton of power so they can not sustain
the dps.

In today's world, burst DPS is king in the moors.

I have always found it ironic however that the 2 best burst DPS classes freep side are also the best healers.. lol.

Originally Posted by rhnyin

The 25% less healing does nothing to alter their INSANE dps and the fact that a healer can STILL out DPS a rank 11 ba traited for damage.

It's not 25% less healing. A fully WS spec'd mini is going to be doing -80% (-90%? long time since I played my mini) heals. And with the change where WS doesn't immediately drop you have a 10 second window to zomgpwn them if they switch to healing. Also, the bubble won't do them much good if they are already out of power from spamming their cries and ballads.

edit: ps it's like complaining about a CC class (LMs) being able to do an insane amount of burst DPS. Nevermind they have a 5 second (10 second if in DN set) mez at that point. In lotro, when some classes assume a secondary role they lose the capabilities of their primary role. It's one of the things that balance the game.

If you want to know what is up with Mini DPS I will give you a little insight.

It is great...when we get crits. Otherwise, it is laughable.

And of course a BA (R11 or not) is going to have problems with a Mini as you have induction and LoS issues while we can attack on the move. The only damage you are going to get off if your melee attacks, a fire dot and probably a few melee auto-attacks.

From what I hear, sometimes people get killed in a PvP zone...maybe it was just a vicious rumor though.

Originally Posted by DreagonMK

In today's world, burst DPS is king in the moors.

I have always found it ironic however that the 2 best burst DPS classes freep side are also the best healers.. lol.

Lol have you ever seen how fast minis lol and lol rks lol get lol killed out in the moors lol? There lol is lol a definite lol tradeoff there lol. Not like your crack-smoke-speed-bursting, DPS-tank reavar. lolololololololol



lol<<<--------BTW this means that something is like funny and stuff!














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Originally Posted by Jeffor

Lol have you ever seen how fast minis and rks get killed out in the moors? There is a definite tradeoff there. Not like your crack-smoke-speed-bursting, DPS-tank reavar.



lol<<<--------BTW this means that something is like funny and stuff!










(lol)

Reavers have 8 seconds to get into melee to try and dps you if they don't run out they will be slowed and utterly helpless if you move away. They have 1 slow and good MELEE dps.
Runekeepers have 2 50% slows, 2 stuns, 2 auto daze's, 1 unlimited daze, can reach a 55% crit chance, and have essay of exhalation with amazing heals and all fates entwined.
Minstrels have 40m stun with a 60% chance, a 45 second 30% slow at range, a fear, feign death wait 10 seconds TS, and a fear. The only downside for a minstrel is they can do 500 damage or 5000 depending on crits in just 3 skills

I have never been a fan of having hybrid classes. If a game is to have classes at all then they should be defined and have a specific role. Who the hell rolls a healer to dps? I can't blame the minstrels for doing what earns them the most renown. Even if renown is pointless, it is still the only thing there is to gain from pvping freepside. Since this game is damn simple and you ONLY get renown/infamy from doing damage, then you can't fault them for wanting to at least have the illusion of progress.

Originally Posted by BLoNdiE

I have never been a fan of having hybrid classes. If a game is to have classes at all then they should be defined and have a specific role. Who the hell rolls a healer to dps?

I for one, am tired of the old mmorpg operandum of the holy trinity: e.g., tank, healer, dps.

Many MMOs are starting to expand upon and realize that players want more diversity in the characters they play. Rather, they are starting to focus on the playstyle of a class, and let the role be determined by the player. Now I don't mean that a player can heal and dps at the same time, or tank and dps at the same time as well, but what I do mean is having multiple roles to choose from. I know many players choose a class not because of their role, but their playstyle -- and this is something I think could be expanded upon.

Fortunately, there are a few classes in LOTRO that do have this hybridization -- namely, Rune-keepers, Champions -- perhaps more than any other classes, these two have very solid and capable roles they can perform. I honestly wish that they would apply this to other classes as well, and give a bit more diversity, and options. The trait lines have helped encourage this somewhat, but I feel it could still a bit more work. I encourage this for monster players as well, though to some extent, many of the classes are kind of a mesh of different freep classes (example: warleader = tank and healer).

First, I know it's probably frustrating to die to a healing class. But when a minstrel is in Warspeech and traited deep in the Skald line, we are no longer healers - but burst damage classes. It's important that creeps remember that - look for the icon!

We cannot drop and heal without a 10 second delay (which is death most of the time) and we cannot heal ourselves while in Warspeech very much, as our heals are cut by 80%. It's one way or the other. Just be happy we can no longer blow you up and then the next second, drop and heal 100% capacity, like we used to be able to do. Turbine balanced the minstrel class that way, and it's painful for us but it was necessary imo.

Lastly, a minstrel's damage is 100% based on crits. We cannot sustain damage dealing for more than a short while, because our power will be gone. Our non crit damage is EXTREMELY meek...almost embarrassingly low

Originally Posted by Najjynn

I for one, am tired of the old mmorpg operandum of the holy trinity: e.g., tank, healer, dps.

Many MMOs are starting to expand upon and realize that players want more diversity in the characters they play. Rather, they are starting to focus on the playstyle of a class, and let the role be determined by the player. Now I don't mean that a player can heal and dps at the same time, or tank and dps at the same time as well, but what I do mean is having multiple roles to choose from. I know many players choose a class not because of their role, but their playstyle -- and this is something I think could be expanded upon.

Fortunately, there are a few classes in LOTRO that do have this hybridization -- namely, Rune-keepers, Champions -- perhaps more than any other classes, these two have very solid and capable roles they can perform. I honestly wish that they would apply this to other classes as well, and give a bit more diversity, and options. The trait lines have helped encourage this somewhat, but I feel it could still a bit more work. I encourage this for monster players as well, though to some extent, many of the classes are kind of a mesh of different freep classes (example: warleader = tank and healer).

Holy mother of god, I had a whole response written up and then as I hit submit reply the forums decided to make me relog and I lost it all. No way in hell am I retyping all that. I respectfully disagree.

Just give defilers and warleaders the crazy dps that minnys can do and we all happy
ohh and maybe a SLOW FOR WARLEADERS

Originally Posted by Jeffor

Lol have you ever seen how fast minis lol and lol rks lol get lol killed out in the moors lol? There lol is lol a definite lol tradeoff there lol. Not like your crack-smoke-speed-bursting, DPS-tank reavar. lolololololololol



lol<<<--------BTW this means that something is like funny and stuff!














(lol)

Your post is laughable as you proved.

Guys, guys.. Come on. The answer to this issue is SOOOO readily apparent to anyone! It's just two simple words that will solve ALL the problems in the Moors. It's the easiest possible thing! Freep DPS, CC and healing can all be addressed if we simply...















nerf wargs! After all wargs should NOT be able to group. Should NOT be able to stealth, and most likely should NOT be able to do damage at all. Just take away those things and the Moors will be right as rain.

See how easy that was?

Originally Posted by whatever76543

Reavers have 8 seconds to get into melee to try and dps you if they don't run out they will be slowed and utterly helpless if you move away. They have 1 slow and good MELEE dps.
Runekeepers have 2 50% slows, 2 stuns, 2 auto daze's, 1 unlimited daze, can reach a 55% crit chance, and have essay of exhalation with amazing heals and all fates entwined.
Minstrels have 40m stun with a 60% chance, a 45 second 30% slow at range, a fear, feign death wait 10 seconds TS, and a fear. The only downside for a minstrel is they can do 500 damage or 5000 depending on crits in just 3 skills

OK, so i play a rk and stuff, and am pretty experienced. but i must be doing it wrong, because from what i understand is we dont have 2 50% slows. we have one 50% slow that has a small range, longish cd. the second is a 70% slow, then down to a 30% as soon as the target takes dmg (if they fixed the bugs in the update properly) the second having an induction which is kinda hard to get off if ur being slayed by a reaver. As for our stuns. WTH is an auto daze. let alone 2 seperate auto dazes. and an unlimited daze? we have shocking touch, a 10-15sec max duration on a 20sec cd. then we have shocking words, which is only a %chance to stun, and the earlier you use it in the fight, the less chane it has. also on a 20s cd. then we have PI, another stun on a 3min cd. then armour of storm is a chance to stun on mellee dmg, so its only good against certain classes, also on a 3min cd, short duration.

Have you ever played a RK? Or are you just sad cus one killed you.

RKs are one of the easiet classes to kill in pvmp. Compare that to a grd that can crit for 1k pretty regularly, has a slow, has a stun, has a charge, has 8k morale and awesome armour/mitigations. and even increased mellee range with the right gear so it makes kiting them so much harder. Really who is the OP class in pvp freepside? it definately aint rk thats for sure. a good player that gets a stun off on an rk can almost have them dead before they wake up.

Originally Posted by Tartare

OK, so i play a rk and stuff, and am pretty experienced. but i must be doing it wrong, because from what i understand is we dont have 2 50% slows.
we have one 50% slow that has a small range, longish cd. the second is a 70% slow, then down to a 30% as soon as the target takes dmg (if they fixed the bugs in the update properly) the second having an induction which is kinda hard to get off if ur being slayed by a reaver.

My apology this was a typo I meant to write 2 50% + slows. 2-3 minutes is not a long CD and can be up by the time you find the reaver again unless your res camping. CR if you have the legacy (I am assuming + duration is a legacy and not from the trait) and the trait slotted as long as you get the jump on the reaver he wont even get close to you.

Originally Posted by Tartare

As for our stuns. WTH is an auto daze. let alone 2 seperate auto dazes. and an unlimited daze? we have shocking touch, a 10-15sec max duration on a 20sec cd. then we have shocking words, which is only a %chance to stun, and the earlier you use it in the fight, the less chane it has. also on a 20s cd. then we have PI, another stun on a 3min cd. then armour of storm is a chance to stun on mellee dmg, so its only good against certain classes, also on a 3min cd, short duration.

And auto daze is a skill you can daze someone as soon as you use the skill. Shocking words is very good for this and PI is even better. Your unlimited daze is called Armour of storm again 3 minutes is a short CD and against a reaver will leave them standing there helpless as you get out of range. On yea and PI kinda gives you a 30% addition crit chance so yea....

Originally Posted by Tartare

Have you ever played a RK? Or are you just sad cus one killed you.

Yes my RK is level 34 and I can solo 2 on level elites at once. I have also auto leveled on during the SoM beta out of boredom and tested some of the quests that were considered "hard" for squishys such as the original mazog in the web and completed it with ease

Originally Posted by Tartare

RKs are one of the easiet classes to kill in pvmp. Compare that to a grd that can crit for 1k pretty regularly, has a slow, has a stun, has a charge, has 8k morale and awesome armour/mitigations. and even increased mellee range with the right gear so it makes kiting them so much harder. Really who is the OP class in pvp freepside? it definately aint rk thats for sure. a good player that gets a stun off on an rk can almost have them dead before they wake up.

I am sorry you don't understand one simple fact Ranged damage > Melee damage. Yes guards are hard to kill if they are smart enough to do S&B most though thankfully run OP and make themselves much easier to kill but they still need to get into melee to do anything.
Another thing don't go to the moors with under 5k morale and you will see how strong you really are.

Also you forget to mention that the healing a runekeeper can do even while dps traited is more then enough to counteract quite a few creeps and you can still use essay of exultation.

Oh yea and cause I'm a stinker 55% for a 4000+ epic conclusion.

Originally Posted by stormofiron

Just give defilers and warleaders the crazy dps that minnys

Sure, and while they're in that "crazy" dps mode, make it so that their morale and mitigations is drastically reduced, their healing is cut by 80%, and warleaders can't use bubbles. Have fun.

Originally Posted by KillGore81

Sure, and while they're in that "crazy" dps mode, make it so that their morale and mitigations is drastically reduced, their healing is cut by 80%, and warleaders can't use bubbles. Have fun.

Not 100% but I am pretty sure brawlers stance already disables bubbles