I know there is a thread on this already, but it seems to be a bit outdated. I am new to LOTRO, and am rolling my first toon. I have narrowed it down to two classes, captain or champion. Which one do you think is the best class to start out with as my main? I will be soloing and grouping about equally. I am looking for a class that can be helpful and be appreciated in a group. I am also looking for a class that can take on large mobs and still be standing at the end of the battle. Also, I am looking for the class that can still be played at the end of the game.
Any help would be appreciated.
Last edited by koolblue3; Aug 26 2010 at 01:48 AM.
A Captain is very difficult to level sometimes,
and their DPS (damage output) will have you gnashing your teeth.
A captain has more group functionality, and the champion less so --
(except for the shing-shing-shing, which does help )
but your champion will be used quite a bit in end game. With your interrupts, DPS and off-tanking as necessary.
My vote, go champ.
Welcome to lotro
Zach "Estel"
Imogæn the Cruel & many others, Fulminata of Elendilmir
Play both to about level 20 or so (no more than a day of playing each). If you like where one of the two classes seems to be going, then run with it. Best advice I can offer really. Nonetheless, I'll play the fanboy and rave on my class of choice.
My main and first toon was/is a Captain. I initially started as a Champ, and have since tried to start one as an alt. But I just can't get into playing a them for some reason. Captains, however, I absolutely love.
As a Captain you'll never find yourself obsolete at endgame. I've never seen a group pass over a Captain unless they absolutely had to. And with the coming updates and new book, our traits are being reworked and fixed finally, so a DPS route isn't entirely impossible (though still nowhere as strong as the DPS heavy Champ). And they're giving us a new, simple attack power at the very early levels to make our skill rotations a bit more robust (which will make leveling easier). We're the Jack of all trades; healing, buffing, off-tanking, fear removal, revives, damage output; you name it, we can do it. Soloing can be a bit slow at times, but survivability is not an issue. And the real fun comes from being in a group, when your various buffs and heals really come into play.
My buffs bring all the DPS to the yard, and they're like "I wanna crit hard!"
A Captain is very difficult to level sometimes,
and their DPS (damage output) will have you gnashing your teeth.
A captain has more group functionality, and the champion less so --
(except for the shing-shing-shing, which does help )
but your champion will be used quite a bit in end game. With your interrupts, DPS and off-tanking as necessary.
My vote, go champ.
Welcome to lotro
Zach "Estel"
actually, with the upcoming changes, a captain running lead the charge with the oathbreaker archer will be able to put out really nice dps. i really like both classes. i would play each for 15 or 20 levels before you decide. those early levels go pretty quick
Play both to about level 20 or so (no more than a day of playing each). If you like where one of the two classes seems to be going, then run with it. Best advice I can offer really. Nonetheless, I'll play the fanboy and rave on my class of choice.
My main and first toon was/is a Captain. I initially started as a Champ, and have since tried to start one as an alt. But I just can't get into playing a them for some reason. Captains, however, I absolutely love.
As a Captain you'll never find yourself obsolete at endgame. I've never seen a group pass over a Captain unless they absolutely had to. And with the coming updates and new book, our traits are being reworked and fixed finally, so a DPS route isn't entirely impossible (though still nowhere as strong as the DPS heavy Champ). And they're giving us a new, simple attack power at the very early levels to make our skill rotations a bit more robust (which will make leveling easier). We're the Jack of all trades; healing, buffing, off-tanking, fear removal, revives, damage output; you name it, we can do it. Soloing can be a bit slow at times, but survivability is not an issue. And the real fun comes from being in a group, when your various buffs and heals really come into play.
Hmmm, Captain looks really interesting. Is DPS really as bad as zachhope said it is?
If you already have a group of friends you know you'll be leveling with, then the captain would be a good choice, but personally, I would not want to level a captain solo again. At the end-game they're great, and always wanted in a group even before that, but solo can be a drag, mostly due to lack of much in the way of AoE attacks.
Champion is just the opposite. They can die quickly, yes, but you'll get a feel for what you can handle, usually something like 3-4 on-level opponents at once. Personally, I find the champion to be one of the most fun classes.
One other benefit of captain, though, that hasn't been mentioned, is that with things like rallying cry, you won't have to wait around to heal much after fights, whereas with the champ, you might be pretty well drained of morale after each fight, unless you do them one or two mobs at a time.
It also remains to be seen what changes to captains are in the works. That alone might get me tempted to try leveling a new one on a new server after all.
I enjoy playing the Captain in a group. The thing is leveling up you rarely group unless you have friends playing. In a duo its a fun class also. Solo I cant stand it.
If you already have a group of friends you know you'll be leveling with, then the captain would be a good choice, but personally, I would not want to level a captain solo again. At the end-game they're great, and always wanted in a group even before that, but solo can be a drag, mostly due to lack of much in the way of AoE attacks.
Champion is just the opposite. They can die quickly, yes, but you'll get a feel for what you can handle, usually something like 3-4 on-level opponents at once. Personally, I find the champion to be one of the most fun classes.
One other benefit of captain, though, that hasn't been mentioned, is that with things like rallying cry, you won't have to wait around to heal much after fights, whereas with the champ, you might be pretty well drained of morale after each fight, unless you do them one or two mobs at a time.
It also remains to be seen what changes to captains are in the works. That alone might get me tempted to try leveling a new one on a new server after all.
Hi,
I know I will be grouping with one of my friends, is this a good fit for a Captain? How is the DPS on a Captain?
Hmmm, Captain looks really interesting. Is DPS really as bad as zachhope said it is?
The only other toon I've leveled that I can compare is my level 40 Guardian alt. The Guardian's 2 Handed "Overpower" stance is specifically for DPS, and I do notice it gets me through mobs faster than my Captain did. Take note though that your first toon will almost always be your slowest leveling experience. You don't know the game, or your class, very well, so your pace tends to be relatively slow to erratic. So it's hard to measure without that bias. The second time through on an alt you have the advantage of knowing the ropes, so things are a lot smoother,a nd so it may just seem that the class is better.
To answer your question directly though, no, it's not that bad. I never found it as bad as it's cracked up to be. And you can't really fairly compare the DPS of the two classes as Champs specialize in mowing through mobs. Captains are pretty good in many areas, but not necessarily awesome in any single one (save buffing and support perhaps). As opposed the Champ, which is great in a specific area (DPS), but not nearly as versatile.
And to reiterate, changes are coming to help Captains deal a bit more damage anyways. So if it's "not that bad right" now, or even "not very good", it'll likely be "a-okay" or at least decent in a few weeks.
EDIT: Foolius hit the nail on the head mentioning the lack of AoE attacks. That, if anything, is the source of the issue when it comes to a Captain's DPS. The inability to deal steady damage to multiple foes makes taking on an average of 2-3 mobs at a time a pain. You have to work through one, then the next, then the next (with heals to keep you up). As opposed to a Champ, who can 'Shing-shing" anything near him equally.
Last edited by infinitethoon; Aug 26 2010 at 01:28 AM.
My buffs bring all the DPS to the yard, and they're like "I wanna crit hard!"
actually, with the upcoming changes, a captain running lead the charge with the oathbreaker archer will be able to put out really nice dps. i really like both classes. i would play each for 15 or 20 levels before you decide. those early levels go pretty quick
^This.
Captain changes out of beta have already been posted to the captain forum. Captain play is more hybrid than champions--you will be responsible for healing/DPS (with the upcoming changes)/off-tanking in a group, and especially buffing.
Captains were designed for group play. Though the skill chart I made will need to be updated with the upcoming captain changes (just one skill in particular), you can look at it in my signature and see that most of our skills are designed for a solid support role. That doesn't mean captains can't be soloed, of course; many would argue that captains are far more resilient than champs for soloing. And it's been discussed a lot on the captain forum--some people whine about it being a terribad class to solo-level, others say it's fine. So it depends on your playstyle (besides the new changes).
Champs traited and decked out for pure DPS are glass cannons despite wearing heavy armor, but if that's your personal playstyle, then that's all there is to it. It's possible to trait more into a tankish role with champs too for more resilience in solo play.
It looks like a Captain might be more of my style. I like being able to do more then just one role. Does anybody know the average DPS of a Captain compared to a Champion? Also, is it extremely bad having to solo some points with a Captain?
Last edited by koolblue3; Aug 26 2010 at 01:35 AM.
It looks like a Captain might be more of my style. I like being able to do more then just one role. Does anybody know the average DPS of a Captain compared to a Champion?
Its not even close. Two completely different classes.
It looks like a Captain might be more of my style. I like being able to do more then just one role. Does anybody know the average DPS of a Captain compared to a Champion? Also, is it extremely bad having to solo some points with a Captain?
To be honest, there's no point in discussing the average captain DPS at this point since class changes will come into effect on 9/10 (or 9/8 for subbers).
If DPS is your primary concern, then try a champ.
If hybridized support play is your primary concern, then try a captain.
Okay. Is it really bad if you have to solo some parts with a Captain?
Survivability and a bit slower: Captain > Champ
DPS and dying sometimes: Champ > Captain
Don't listen to people who say that captain DPS is pure gimp; firstly, class changes are coming--so that doesn't matter. Decide what your playstyle is and go from there.
Its not even close. Two completely different classes.
^This. Atm I would say Captains rank in the bottom 2-3 out of the seven classes when it comes to DPS. Choosing to play a Captain is to accept that another class will deal DPS/heal/tank better; those are just the cold hard facts. Choosing to play a Captain requires the mindset of being the guy who makes everything run smoother; the guy who helps others do what they do best, better; the guy who can fill in the gaps as needed. Truly it's a group focused class.
Play a Cappy and the Champ till 20 or so and decide for yourself tbh. What matters is that you enjoy playing whatever class you choose, regardless of its shortcomings.
My buffs bring all the DPS to the yard, and they're like "I wanna crit hard!"
You're going to need to play both to probably level 35 before making a decision on a main. Reason I say this as opposed to 20 like most others say. You get your heavy armour at 20 and it changes both classes dramatically.
Yes, a dps'd spec'd champ is kind of squishy. But if you keep up with your virtues (grind your deeds as you level) you'll find that they arent as bad as some people say. You can also equip a heavy shield, which greatly increases your survivability, but at the cost of dps. This makes you a decent tank, third to the two main tanking classes (guardians and wardens).
Yes, dps on captains is currently much lower than champions. With the upcoming changes, I am looking for this to change, and the dps spec'd captain to do some decent dps. With better self-heals, you may find that a captain is a little hardier than a champion, but you still need to grind your deeds for virtues.
Both are very useful in end game instances, although I seem to get more play for my champion currently than my captain. I rarely get asked to bring my captain on runs, and they really are expendable on most runs. Champions are also somewhat expendable, their dps role can be taken by hunters or runekeepers. And you'll almost always want a guardian or warden for tanking rather than a champion. If you want a class that is needed in every run, raid, instance, group, play a minstrel, but that's neither here nor there.
Captain buffs are great and the fear removal is awesome. Champions AoE or Single Target dps and their interrupts are also very useful, especially in fights that are dps races and bosses than have interruptable inductions.
Soloing, I would say that captians are slower than champions. But that's neither a good nor a bad thing. The story in this game is great, and you should enjoy it. If you aren't in a ruch to get to the end-game and just want to have fun, you can't go wrong with either. They're both a blast to play.
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What classes are the people you'll be playing with looking to play? That can make some difference.
I'ts hard to compare a dps class with a support/hybrid in terms of damage done. You *can* compare them in the amount of time it takes to do content. Less down time for a captain, but some battles can be incredibly slow. Faster combat for champs, but some things you just won't be able to live through, or you'll be waiting a fair amount of time to regen before the next battle.
I found the difficult part in leveling a captain was due to the multiple roles, we only get a few of the skills for each "focus set" at a time. A champ is about damage, and they keep getting damage skills and they smear things all over the floor right out of the starting block. Captains get a few damage, and then a heal, and then some buffs, and then another damage skill, etc. etc. Captains REALLY come into their own after about level 38 when what appears to be a bunch of random skills turns you into the character that everyone likes to see when they get invited into a group. Prior to that, I wasn't really quite sure what I was doing in a group. Now it's "Oh great, we've got a captain!"
You'd really need to level a captain to about 35 to tell which you like better. Also, captains have few ranged options at lower levels (woot for 3 damage throwing axes! ) so that can be a deal-breaker for some.
The other warning...captains yell a fair amount. Not as much as wardens, but enough. However, most of the shout skills are received at lower levels. As you level up and get more skills, you'll be spreading the shouting out over more time, and you'll begin to sound like a delicate hum in the background while the wardens, guardians and minstrels are like a swarm of cicadas competing for title of "Breaker of Ear Drums." Just don't let the fact that you receive 3 of your 4 "shouts" before level 10 put you off. The volume for shouts is connected to the combat sound slider, so just move that to the right a bit. You'll want to do that anyway on any character, combat audio is rather overwhelming at times.
If you plan to PvMP, then Captain, Champs are near worthless there.
Champions are powerful but fairly one dimensional, they fight, and they fight very well. Captains have more options with buffs, travel, and fighting.
I love playing my champ when I just want to fight and kill things, but when I really want to have fun within the game I prefer the options other classes provide. I also don't like dealing with pets, so Captains are out for me.
Play a Cappy and the Champ till 20 or so and decide for yourself tbh. What matters is that you enjoy playing whatever class you choose, regardless of its shortcomings.
Quoted because it's the best advice you can get. Seriously.
I LOVE my captain and I LOVE my champ. Overall, champs make things dead faster, but die much easier. Captains kill things slower than champs, but after level 20 are easily the most solo-survivable class in game.
Either class are good choices. It depends on your play style.
Hmmm, Captain looks really interesting. Is DPS really as bad as zachhope said it is?
I cannot remind people who play mmos of this enough -
This is an mmo. Classes have roles. A Captain is a melee healer/buffer. It is not supposed to generate massive amounts of damage. If you are focusing on increasing your damage output as a Captain before making yourself a better healer/buffer, you are doing it wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. You can come up with all the ridiculous "You're a noob if you do poor damage as a Captain" statements you want, because they're all meaningless bunk. I can't tell you how many times I've had the following conversation:
"I'm a <insert primary healing or buffing class here> and I do loads of damage!"
Really? Why are you doing damage when you should be healing?
"I don't have to heal or buff, I can play my class however I want. Waaaaaaanh!"
Really? Why didn't you roll a <insert DPS class here> if you wanted to do damage?
"Waaaaaaanh!"
Seriously, if you're going to chose a class, play it for what it is. Don't be expecting to hit like a truck when that isn't what your class is designed to do. Going outside your role is an option that is available to some classes, but by doing so you're just shooting yourself in the foot.
The big difference for me between leveling up my captain and my champion was survivability. Most of my time is spent solo. Captains can heal themselves much more easily and much more frequently than a champion's one little heal with a cool down that lets you use it only once per combat. Captains can also give themselves various buffs with both their skills and their heralds. Captains kill more slowly than champions, but by comparison champions are glass cannons.
So, at least from a solo play perspective, it comes down to which you enjoy most, fast damage or survivability.
Half of being clever is making certain you are not being stupid.
My main is a Champion and my 1st Alt is a Captain. I usually feel more wanted in a group with a Captain, but I prefer playing my champ. A downside of playing a captain for your first toon is dealing with heralds. Takes a little more time to prep for solo stuff by managing your herald and applying buffs, but it is all easy to learn after a short time.
I know there is a thread on this already, but it seems to be a bit outdated. I am new to LOTRO, and am rolling my first toon. I have narrowed it down to two classes, captain or champion. Which one do you think is the best class to start out with as my main? I will be soloing and grouping about equally. I am looking for a class that can be helpful and be appreciated in a group. I am also looking for a class that can take on large mobs and still be standing at the end of the battle. Also, I am looking for the class that can still be played at the end of the game.
Any help would be appreciated.
Both classes are very different, so you should consider exactly what kind of role you want to be playing as you progress through the game and at end-game.
Champion is a good starter class, but as a champion you will love to fellow with a captain
Champion role is to kill stuff. You don't contribute directly to your group other than being the one killing lots of stuff quickly.
Captain role is to enhance others. You can solo just fine but it is much slower than a champion. Your primarly abilities are to aid your comrades in battle.
Thank you for your quick reply. Is it true though that the champions die quite easily?
I thought so. But my captain was nearly indestructible, and was a blast to level up. There's been a trend lately to bash captain, because they don't dps as much as some would like.
DPS isn't everything though, and it's highly overrated. Many players have this idea that killing things faster makes you live longer, and yet my captain survives much better than my champion. Captains have flexibility and survivability and can do many things. Champions basically just do one thing (if you twist their arms they may agree tank, but they'll resent you for it). My captain has very little downtime between fights. Ie, when my captain has only 30% morale left, he'll still charge into the next fight and win; whereas my champion is going to make sure he rests up, and will use more food and potions.
However captains can feel slow, especially if you've played other classes with faster weapons. So some players hate it for that reason.
mostly due to lack of much in the way of AoE attacks.
But you don't need AoE if you can survive the fight. The only thing AoE gives is speed.
I found my captain the most fun to solo, but it was a long time ago too. Almost every other class though I worry before fights if I can handle them or not, and make sure I'm prepared. But my captain (and warden and guardian) just rush in first and worry about it after the fight is over. No way is it slower than my burglar was while leveling. And I soared through Moria on captain without worry whereas my minstrel had great difficulty.
This was before the weapon speed changes though, but I can't believe that one change is what has caused all this new hatred for captain DPS.
Take note though that your first toon will almost always be your slowest leveling experience.
Your first character actually should be your slowest. This game is best when you don't rush! Fast leveling just causes people to complain about the end game sooner.
A downside of playing a captain for your first toon is dealing with heralds. Takes a little more time to prep for solo stuff by managing your herald and applying buffs, but it is all easy to learn after a short time.
Offering a second opinion on this: Heralds are immensely useful when leveling (and probably even more so post-F2P). Not only do they provide you with a bit more auto-attack damage, they also have minor heals, damage skills, and a taunt that can help take some heat off when outnumbered. And having your own mini-party in a solo skirmish is always amusing, you can truly 95% AFK without worries when playing Stand at Amon Sul
You should invest in a class you enjoy playing, that's it. Some people play some classes better even if they're good generally at playing classes, it's what you want to do. I'd go with the role, champ is DPS or off-tanking, captain is support . The captain will make groups run really smooth, there is definately a difference when you don't run with one than when you do, however I prefer the speed of the champ and killing power it brings, you can farm lower level stuff much faster with a champ also. It's your choice though, but I don't think playing lower levels would help you choose what is best at the level cap, only get a feel for how each starts out. I leveled up my captain without much of a problem, the dps is not that bad really if you have a good weapon.
I know for one the warden starts out awesome, then at 65 the dps is lack luster, so you have to pick, support for friends, or be more greedy and go for dps.
Last edited by NeoPromethious; Aug 26 2010 at 11:04 PM.
You can also equip a heavy shield, which greatly increases your survivability, but at the cost of dps. This makes you a decent tank, third to the two main tanking classes (guardians and wardens).
Totally! I often play main-tank for some of the radiance runs. I got my champ to 65 before any of my other toons, so I'm a little biased, but never truly found him 'squishy'.
I got to the mid-30's with my cappy... and for some reason it really wasn't geling. I have not yet found my motivation with her. I keep saying to the cappy players in my kin that I need a masterclass, to understand the cappy.
So, as others have said, it really does take playing the toon actively to understand them.
Last edited by kyrelenblackstone; Aug 27 2010 at 09:30 AM.
Reason: Play was spelled wrongly
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Originally Posted by zachhope
For a first toon, I would recommend Champion.
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