Thread: NDA Lifted. Changes to the 'Moors

Originally Posted by elderlygamer

Of course the time to roll a warg and a burglar wasn't mean to be equal, and I wasn't suggesting it was. But the fact that you can roll a warg and have him at competent status with all of his fine skills in a relatively short period of time means there are going to be A LOT of wargs. There probably are too many wargs on every single server. Why? Because with relative ease you can roll a stealthing class that has the ability to stun, the ability to sprint away, and the ability to do a lot of damage. Throw in the ability to initiate CJs for a bonus. It's a very powerful class, and I don't think anyone on either side can realistically deny that. You don't see an abundance of wargs everywhere because it's a gimped class that's hard to play.

The change in CJs does seem to be a gain for the freeps for the simple fact that there are so many freakin wargs. If burgs could be insta-rolled then the CJ change would be affecting freeps a lot more. But since that isn't possible, and since wargs can be ranked up in a short period of time, it's inevitable that there will be a lot more CJs initiated on creep side than freep side. And, as a regular creep who occasionally freeps, I think creep side needs fewer CJs. That's the point I'm making.


Yeah I do hope that's not true. Freeps need love at this point, not creeps.

Very-well worded. Pretty much my thoughts on that topic.

Originally Posted by elderlygamer

Of course the time to roll a warg and a burglar wasn't mean to be equal, and I wasn't suggesting it was.

Then why bring up the issue of development time?

That said, I'm not sorry to see FMs/WBMs leaving the Ettenmoors.
As a Creep who is solo a great deal of the time WBMs were worthless and the FMs were devastating.
The nerf to Burglars is a huge win for this warg - while I'll still spend most of the battle stunned at least the little devils won't be getting healing off an FM.

In short, if getting rid of WBM and putting the stuns on DR quells the whining, I'm all for it.

New NPC quests and deed

Originally Posted by Jerboa

Then why bring up the issue of development time?

That said, I'm not sorry to see FMs/WBMs leaving the Ettenmoors.
As a Creep who is solo a great deal of the time WBMs were worthless and the FMs were devastating.
The nerf to Burglars is a huge win for this warg - while I'll still spend most of the battle stunned at least the little devils won't be getting healing off an FM.

In short, if getting rid of WBM and putting the stuns on DR quells the whining, I'm all for it.

Speaking from a Burglar point of view, I do not feel this as any sort of crippling blow at all.

This change won't even make me re-analyze my gameplay in both Solo and Raid seriously.

If all it took to remove FM/WBM from the 'Moors was the removal of "green FMs", then count me in the happy department.

Originally Posted by Patrickwg

New NPC quests and deed

Nice.

Question though. What actually increment the deed? Quest completion? Kills?

Is that part of the new quests that were spoken of before?

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

Hmm, can anyone confirm this?

If this is indeed true, I'm bedazzled as to why they would even consider that huge of an upgrade to already bloated creep mitigations.

Word through the grapevine is that the traited mitigations for Creeps have been fixed. Some of them were not working correctly (lightning, for example). They are all now working as intended.

Originally Posted by Overtone

Word through the grapevine is that the traited mitigations for Creeps have been fixed. Some of them were not working correctly (lightning, for example). They are all now working as intended.

Hehe, thanks for the update. Still kind of vague though but I don't blame you for that.

Originally Posted by Jerboa

Then why bring up the issue of development time?

Because the little bit of time time spent ranking up a warg to get him competent, versus the time spent to get a burg up to the same status, is part of the reason why there are a lot more wargs than burgs.

I have a burg in the low 50s. I'd love to bring him to the moors. But to do that and be half competent at it I'd have to invest a lot of time into him in pve land which I don't really want to do. Now if I could take the "development time" I've put into my burg and make him capable of handling himself in the moors then that's where I'd be spending my play time. The same is true of my RK.

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

Hmm, can anyone confirm this?

If this is indeed true, I'm bedazzled as to why they would even consider that huge of an upgrade to already bloated creep mitigations.

Just a little FYI

Originally Posted by Xcellsior

I have lightning slotted, DoF armour pot (best one, gives like 1k armour), lightning defense destiny perk, and the WL aura that gives armour. I could have more lightning mit if i traited skill mitigation 1 and 2 but i would have a lot less health or i would not have as much common as i do now (it is sitting at 50% flat traited)

So yes...creeps are getting even more mitigation...so in this instance...what isn't getting resisted, will get mitigated by 50%.

Originally Posted by Virogar

Root means you can still have a pot available for it after the stun which will come right before or after the CJ. Just means you might have to throw in a Snag to trick the creep into blowing their root pot

I know you are trying very hard to justify snag's existence, but throwing in a snag is just free DR for your follow up stun/FM.

Originally Posted by Winterfell

Just a little FYI



So yes...creeps are getting even more mitigation...so in this instance...what isn't getting resisted, will get mitigated by 50%.

I'm speechless...

The worse in there is that there is no increase in Freep DPS increase incoming to counter such mitigations increase. If anything, we get a nerf with the Captain Banner going from % to rating.

10,000+ Morale Defilers/Reavers/Warleaders with 50% Mitigations? This is getting out of hand seriously.

I know Epic Conclusion hits too hard but god...this is one class out of nine.

We seriously need some developer(s) to comment in this forum because right now, I just can't find the justification for such things.

Why an overall increase in Creep mitigations this steep?

But then I guess asking for developers feedback in this forum might be more utopic than asking for anything else at this point?

so all creep as long as they trait mits are going to be mitigating 50% damage. Okay who oneshotted the pvp dev while he was on his warg.......Come on speak up.........

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

Nice.

Question though. What actually increment the deed? Quest completion? Kills?

Is that part of the new quests that were spoken of before?

Yes goes up from the new quests (not sure if others add to it or not did not do any but the new ones)

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

Haha, it was good while it lasted but now that Champions have the same immunity as Reavers, I'm all good with Reavers getting immunity again through Charge!.

Charge should either have an equivalent penalty as CBR or the same CD and benefits as sprint.

Correct me if I'm wrong but:

1: Creeps cannot specify mitigations for maybe 2 out of 7 damage types.
2: Specifying these things will result in a reduction to health/damage/power.

So yes, the Minitrel I'm fighting may have his day ruined by the light mitigations I'm carrying but the Rune Keeper behind me is still gonna have a field day with the lightning attacks. Stop responding as if I've the ability to trait mitigations at 50% for all damage types. Frankly, getting hit for 2-4K in damage all night long is ridiculous - it will be nice to be able to specialize in taking out minstrels or rune keepers.

Originally Posted by lordjimdudkiewicz

Charge should either have an equivalent penalty as CBR or the same CD and benefits as sprint.

This I can agree with up to a certain extant as BR/CBR can be kept up permanently up to a certain degree.

Originally Posted by Jerboa

Correct me if I'm wrong but:

1: Creeps cannot specify mitigations for maybe 2 out of 7 damage types.
2: Specifying these things will result in a reduction to health/damage/power.

So yes, the Minitrel I'm fighting may have his day ruined by the light mitigations I'm carrying but the Rune Keeper behind me is still gonna have a field day with the lightning attacks.

While you may only slots 2 mitigations to reach that level, it is widely known that Westernesse and Lightning are the two primary and by far the biggest source of incoming damage. There's quite a bunch of Beleriand but I'm sure it is far below Westernesse.

It will be a no-brainer for creeps as to what to slot.

**Edit** To further add to the mitigation issue, me, as a medium armor user, my highest mitigation value is common damage with a value of 30.8%. And you know, this is with the best armor in the game (full BG set). And we know how there is practically no common damage out there if not for the green/blue creeps and even then. Fire, Acid and Lightning are 11.8% with Frost being 17.4% and Shadow being my highest at 24% because of 2 Virtues and the full BG Set.

This is way too much of a discrepancy between Creeps and Freeps.

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

This I can agree with up to a certain extant as BR/CBR can be kept up permanently up to a certain degree.

There is a pretty definite end to CBR. It involves waking up in a circle surrounded by 4 rangers.

Originally Posted by lordjimdudkiewicz

There is a pretty definite end to CBR. It involves waking up in a circle surrounded by 4 rangers.

Hehe, thus my comment "up to a certain extent".

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

While you may only slots 2 mitigations to reach that level, it is widely known that Westernesse and Lightning are the two primary and by far the biggest source of incoming damage. There's quite a bunch of Beleriand but I'm sure it is far below Westernesse.

It will be a no-brainer for creeps as to what to slot.

As a full time warg, I have to disagree.

I don't slot Lightning mitigations because against a Rune Keeper I don't need it. He has to pull the EC to win and I usually have him burned down before he can pull it off. It's tricky, and I lose at times - but I won't be slotting lightning.

I might slot Light mitigation because a Minstrel or a Lore Master is far more dangerous than a Rune Keeper. A Minstrel can bubble and still pass out damage while remaining invunerable himself and a Lore Master is a flat out nasty battle IF you can catch him with out his stun-guard up.

If Light Mitigation WAS working it was a garbage trait.
I don't think my build will be changing, to be honest.
A health build mitigates EVERYTHING.

Much ado about nothing, IMHO.

As for your edit comments, I've a hard time crying for a burglar's mitigations.
You've got manheal (that mitigates everything), a ridiculous amont of stuns/evades (4X what I've got), and a variety of other tools at your disposal.
I'd be happy to give you mitigations that match my own if I get wargheal, more stuns, and 75% evade for 30s at a time.

There WAS no mitigation bug. That was misinformation from a single freep who copied over his RK without realizing the copy didn't spend all his LI points/slot relics and thus noticed a HUGE decrease in his damage output. He made a post about it, then abruptly stopped talking about it once he realized his mistake due to embarrassment for the oversight (don't blame him).

Also this "I got my mitigation to 50%" nonsense involves grouping with a WL using armor stance (which replaces the +25% melee damage stance aka Reaver Crack), using a DP perk, a delving potion and slotting certain traits all to get ONE mitigation up to 50%.

This is being overblown.

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

While you may only slots 2 mitigations to reach that level, it is widely known that Westernesse and Lightning are the two primary and by far the biggest source of incoming damage. There's quite a bunch of Beleriand but I'm sure it is far below Westernesse.

It will be a no-brainer for creeps as to what to slot.

Wait, where is all the westernesse coming from?

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

It will be a no-brainer for creeps as to what to slot.

Indeed a no-brainer! I plan to slot mitigations against whatever damage type Luc's main-hand weapon does and lightning. Then update accordingly as he does.

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

The worse in there is that there is no increase in Freep DPS increase incoming to counter such mitigations increase. If anything, we get a nerf with the Captain Banner going from % to rating.

Captains' War banner never provided a % bonus to the fellowship's damage, only to the Captain. However, a captain traited with the Leader of Men capstone and the To Arms legacy will now be able to keep an almost-constant +10% damage buff on the entire fellowship, in addition to the +25% on their shield brother. That's a pretty substantial DPS increase.

Originally Posted by morpheme

Captains' War banner never provided a % bonus to the fellowship's damage, only to the Captain. However, a captain traited with the Leader of Men capstone and the To Arms legacy will now be able to keep an almost-constant +10% damage buff on the entire fellowship, in addition to the +25% on their shield brother. That's a pretty substantial DPS increase.

That is nice. You could also argue with the increase in symbol drop rates and the ability to buy them with skirm marks etc, 2nd ages (and ones with good legs) will be more common..upping overall freep DPS.

Originally Posted by lordjimdudkiewicz

Wait, where is all the westernesse coming from?

Many DPS classes run the Westernesse type for BG. Also, one of the rewards for a chapter of the new book is a Westernesse+Orc weapon title.

Oh the horrrooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooor ......

.... people are going to have to adapt to change!!!

Originally Posted by Gante

Additionally i believe this R12 skill is only usable by 1 weaver on the Live servers at the current moment.

So Turbine spent time tweaking a skill only one player in the game can currently use? That weaver has some clout!

Originally Posted by XavierBlak

Any mention of the wl snap skill? Does it break you out of the cj stun?

SS from F2P Beta

Originally Posted by morpheme

Captains' War banner never provided a % bonus to the fellowship's damage, only to the Captain. However, a captain traited with the Leader of Men capstone and the To Arms legacy will now be able to keep an almost-constant +10% damage buff on the entire fellowship, in addition to the +25% on their shield brother. That's a pretty substantial DPS increase.

Yeah, I have heard (and have been corrected) by a kinmate concerning the Captain's changes. It is very nice indeed.

Thanks for the information nevertheless.

Originally Posted by chrisCML

That is nice. You could also argue with the increase in symbol drop rates and the ability to buy them with skirm marks etc, 2nd ages (and ones with good legs) will be more common..upping overall freep DPS.

While in paper this might sound true, legacies on a weapon play a much higher role than the small DPS increase the 2nd age provides.

Surely this will play a role in DPS for the Freeps. But I even wonder if the Creeps will notice any difference.

Originally Posted by Patrickwg

SS from F2P Beta

Nice one.

This skill didn't even make the patch notes apparently.

Edited OP.

The CJ change is nice, would be good to get back on the warg again and actually find it a challenge.

The potential for increasing creep mits? Really devs? Really?

I think this is going benefit the freeps a lot more then the creeps just looking at the FM's.

Freep side has always had a ton of cc. FM or not against creeps they seem to be fine. Creeps have the pots they can use, wl has snap out of it, reaver has resilience and there is a few other helpers.

Freep side has burg FF, Guard TTT, Champ CBR, they have pots as well. Then the big one is LM SI. If there is an lm which wants to spam immunity on everyone (which there will be) That will really disturb the balance in smaller fights or if there is a lot of melee classes which can be kited. Not being able to lock anything down without a root (which breaks on dmg) will suck for creeps.

Honestly though it will be fine. I look forward to playing my creeps and freeps...except lm's are getting there thrown back.

Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

Creeps now have seven new Mitigations perks:

- Beleriand
- Ancient Dwarf
- Westernesse
- Lightning
- Fire
- Frost
- Light

Can anyone actually explain what this means? Trait? Dp buff? What the heck is a mitigation perk?

Originally Posted by XavierBlak

Can anyone actually explain what this means? Trait? Dp buff? What the heck is a mitigation perk?

They are temporary buffs purchased with destiny points. They persist through death (like continuing recovery and the TA damage buff).

Im going to guess perk means DP PERK... you spend DP through the DP perk window... or maybe from the TA NPC that currently gives the +5% Offence of Defence perks ranging from 500dp to 3,000DP from 15mins to 1hour.

They should ake charge 5 second duration again, what'll happen now is reavers will wait for ba's to range soething to about half morale to charge in DS and charge out...no fear of being caught again.

As far as the DP perks for mit, freeps get them too. So, yes, you can also increase your mitigations to acid, fire, shadow, etc.

Also, you can now buy the Damage perk (+5% melee, range, tac) so there is a slight boost in available DPS on the freepside.

Originally Posted by Swiftstrike

I know you are trying very hard to justify snag's existence

False.
Snag is more often than not kinda useless.
But what's wrong with trying to find a situational use for it?
Boycotting the skill isn't going to do anything to get it changed quickly,
so um,
why so negative?

Originally Posted by sebo2yoface

They should ake charge 5 second duration again, what'll happen now is reavers will wait for ba's to range soething to about half morale to charge in DS and charge out...no fear of being caught again.

They already do that...changing the charge duration will just make even less melee classes in the moors. Unlike champ reaver doesn't have an in combat sprint or cd's other then dying rage. After charge runs out if the target isn't dead reavers get kited easy...so you give them 5sec to kill something!

nvm on ET for the moors now lol, I'll prob just use twist every 45 secs to keep DR outta the way. Dont want ET to throw in a ****** 2 sec stun and ruin the DR. Time for FB