Thread: Beta NDA Officially Lifted

Originally Posted by Dotlbeme

Could you link to this article? (I'm having a senior moment trying to locate it)

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=347848

With Layered Instances (I'll just call them Layers, as LI is already taken,) there are no "lists" that allow you to jump from one to the other. At present, you can only do so if you are in a fellowship.

For RP purposes, the community will have to end-run this by having "gateway" players who can Fellow-and-drop people, as to get them to the right layer.

That said, it also is a way to duck-and-dodge ourselves into more private areas, where RP can be less disturbed.

Also, the Layers are not in all areas. Though some folks with slower systems may see quick loading screens. They are still testing it, there is an event this Wednesday to push the system some.

In other news:

They tried to test the PvMP system, inviting us all to stress test the zone. However the login system crashed and the test never went down. Curiously, Landroval had a login issue just last week. Today they are doing a 24 hour hardware change on the beta server, ahead of the above noted layer test.

Big one here: Temp Mounts. You can buy mounts, for any level character, which last from minutes, to hours, to days, to weeks, to a month at a time. At least one person has gotten a lvl 5 toon all the way to the middle of the new zone using one. So if you can ride, then you no longer have as many restrictions on where you can get too.

Originally Posted by cedwin

pay-to-win

This...............

Originally Posted by nikito

This...............

yeah,.and? What makes it pay to win?

spill it!




ok,..I am alittle more relieved about the Layered stuff,..thanks,..heh

Any nice screenshots available?

Originally Posted by gildhur

However, the system was EXTREMELY ramped up in Beta. It will not be something you interact with on a daily (or even monthly) basis on Live. Even in the last Beta build, it has been completely removed from view. You're only going to see it occur in the most extremely dense populated areas. I can see it occuring in something like the Amarthiel attacks, but not in everyday play. It was also stated that they can adjust the numbers on the fly, so if they know a big social gathering is going to occur (e.g. Weatherstock on Landroval), they can up the threshold and it will stay uninstanced. This is not something that people need to worry about.

It is something to worry about, on Landroval anyway. And just because they can turn it off doesn't mean we have any certainty it would be. The system exists, and if not often, it can and will happen. Which means we do have to plan for possible work-arounds in groups doing RP events.

All of this said, it is amped up for beta, they are very much testing and adjusting, and changes are sure to come.

Personally I see a lot of positives overall. The system does work pretty seamlessly. It does smooth things over. It shouldn't cause towns to feel empty, but epic crowds are not as likely in some areas.

Originally Posted by Comstrike

At least one person has gotten a lvl 5 toon all the way to the middle of the new zone using one. So if you can ride, then you no longer have as many restrictions on where you can get too.

That used to be a big deal, back when collecting ore to craft meant something. The state crafting is in right now though, I could care less if I see a level 5 ninja-mining in Enedwaith.

If he got to Enedwaith at level 5 though, does that mean he completely skipped Lothlorian and Mirkwood? Is Enedwaith alternate leveling content? I heard something about it, but it wasn't verified.

Originally Posted by gildhur

You're only going to see it occur in the most extremely dense populated areas.

I was in one of Thorin's Hall layers. There were somewhere between 100 and 150 avatars around me. All bunched up near the statue at the entrance with Sapience. I believe Avon was the other developer. Avon was in a different layer. It is very rare on Meneldor see this kind of player density. 21st Hall the first month after launch of Moria.

To further load down the layers. Turbine sent us a little Rog. We had a big fight. 100+ of us against a little Rog. We are almost all right out of the introduction. You got all these 6-12s trying to kill a level 30? Rog.

It would probably be a good idea to start separate threads on issues no?

My main focus was (as a VIP):
Volume 3 Book 2 (copied 3 level 65s)
Leveling a new toon from scratch (level 44 so far)
Crafting
Using the Store in conjunction with the above.

Sadly the Moors event I tried to get into went south and was postponed (did it ever happen?) Never got a chance to use my copied Creep.

Originally Posted by cedwin

If he got to Enedwaith at level 5 though, does that mean he completely skipped Lothlorian and Mirkwood? Is Enedwaith alternate leveling content? I heard something about it, but it wasn't verified.

It is not alternative leveling content, really. The announcement that it was a level 62(63?)-65 zone was in error. It's designed for level-capped players.

Originally Posted by cedwin

That used to be a big deal, back when collecting ore to craft meant something. The state crafting is in right now though, I could care less if I see a level 5 ninja-mining in Enedwaith.

If he got to Enedwaith at level 5 though, does that mean he completely skipped Lothlorian and Mirkwood? Is Enedwaith alternate leveling content? I heard something about it, but it wasn't verified.

It's not gated if that's what you are asking. Also, the mobs in the zone are lvl 65+

Originally Posted by cedwin

That used to be a big deal, back when collecting ore to craft meant something. The state crafting is in right now though, I could care less if I see a level 5 ninja-mining in Enedwaith.

If he got to Enedwaith at level 5 though, does that mean he completely skipped Lothlorian and Mirkwood? Is Enedwaith alternate leveling content? I heard something about it, but it wasn't verified.

You do not need to go through Moria or Lothlorien to get to Enedwaith. It is open from Eregion, just cross to the south.

I suppose you could go there around level 60 and survive and level.

Now that I think about it, I am not sure if Volume III is available or not without Mirkwood. It certainly would be level restricted though.

The new addons kick serious butt! No more squinting at the damned tiny debuff icons!

Symbols are currently on Skirmish Vendors.

The Stat Tomes have a terribad drop rate so far but not as bad as it was at the beginning, they didn't drop for a while at all.

Up to +30 Tomes are in the Store, we saw +40 and +50 in the Store for a couple of days but they were removed with no explaination.

Much is still hotly debated amongst the testers

Originally Posted by Comstrike

They now have a system called Layered Instances. When you walk into Bree for example, if too many people are in the same place, you may walk into one instance, the person next to you may walk into a second, or third instance of Bree. All chat channels are combined, so you can talk, but not always see each other.

If you join a fellowship, you can click a button that will port you to the same layer.

So the uber lag does go away, but then the crowds cease to exist.

And so it goes, really big gatherings of non-fellow shipped players may face issues.

Is this for all areas or just places like Bree-town? If it is for all areas won't it put an end to large parties and other player events? Is it worth splitting up our servers to save a little lag? This doesn't sound worth it.

Originally Posted by Meijha

Yay Creeps got the short end again!

Too bad those changes don't take effect immediately.

Originally Posted by Dotlbeme

Now that I think about it, I am not sure if Volume III is available or not without Mirkwood. It certainly would be level restricted though.

You required to have Mirkwood for Volume 3. Volume 3, Book 1 has a level 65 restricted skirmish. You can not reach level 65 without the Mirkwood expansion to raise your level cap. You can not start Volume 3, Book 2 unless you have completed Volume 3, Book 1.

Originally Posted by aradaneth

It's not gated if that's what you are asking. Also, the mobs in the zone are lvl 65+

Originally Posted by Dotlbeme

You do not need to go through Moria or Lothlorien to get to Enedwaith. It is open from Eregion, just cross to the south.

I suppose you could go there around level 60 and survive and level.

Now that I think about it, I am not sure if Volume III is available or not without Mirkwood. It certainly would be level restricted though.

Ok cool. From my experience with the latest content, everything is gated.

You have to do Volume 2 book 1 to even step foot in Moria, you can't get to Lothlorian without going through Moria. Once out of Moria, you have to gain reputation to step foot in Lothlorian. You can't get to Mirkwood without going through Lothlorian. Once on the other side of Lothlorian, you can't go to Mirkwood without completing the Foreward...

Okay here is one from the layered instance - look at how many people are crowded in and that's not including the dead ones lol.
I think there was only 2 differant layers during this test and yeah there was a LOT of people there.


The new Hobbit intro was well done and flows much better now and makes more sense. Also love the pics you get with the hints now to help explain better for new players.

Best of all tho is the revamped Fall festival (I do so love my fluff!)
EVERYONE must check out the new haunted cellar!
Woooooo

Here are the new festival cloaks (RAven one could also be bought in the shop)
Fall one
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9.../Fallcloak.jpg

Boar one


Raven one with the new sign from festival


New Fall horsey

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...Fallhorse1.jpg

All the cloaks could be dyed to some extent - can't remeber if boar one could tho but rest deffiantly could.

Much easier to join instance now - want to do Hele? np just open your instance tab on skirmish window, click which part of hele you want to do and enter
Less traveling to and from the instances.

Not been able to check since latest patch where a few things and looks were changed or I would have more screenies and of the new faction stuff.

Oh and Windfolians - our call for a giant goat has been heeded! Beware as this one is less than friendly

Originally Posted by Jeffor

Is this for all areas or just places like Bree-town? If it is for all areas won't it put an end to large parties and other player events? Is it worth splitting up our servers to save a little lag? This doesn't sound worth it.

It is a lot of lag. You need a huge number of characters to cause a split. Somewhere in the 100 to 150 character range.

Rep mounts in the store is a sticky topic for many: the thought of a newbie riding a Galadhrim horse bugs me

By and large the game behaves just like the game does now, with minor alterations.

Players will love the shared wardrobe. You can add an item, dye it inside the wardrobe and use any of the colors you've dyed it without using additional wardrobe slots.

The valut changes will take a little getting used to, though I think they're generally positive.

Some will freak out seeing things like dyes in the store, but at 150 per dye, crafters will not be going out of business.

The revamped introductions are better, mostly. Archet has a real story to it, not just random quests, though I didn't care for the end skirmish.

I ran as a true F2P with no points and found it to play exactly like the current live game through the starter zones (in my case, Bree land) so even without spending a dime you can easily cover the first 20+ levels.

Originally Posted by Jeffor

Is this for all areas or just places like Bree-town? If it is for all areas won't it put an end to large parties and other player events? Is it worth splitting up our servers to save a little lag? This doesn't sound worth it.

The number of players per instance can be adjusted. In the case of certain types of user run events, Weatherstock for example, it's possible to adjust the layers to accommodate larger groups for a period of time or disable them for the length of the event. Assuming the events are held in an area where layering is enabled in the first place.

(About Layering)

VIII book 2 spoiler.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
In book 2 you need to deal with the Rangers at various points in the story. In one chapter, they are all in the stable at Rivendel. After you get past this point (and prior) you do not see them there. They are in another layer. This was by far the most dramatic part of the layering for me. Later on when the book goes into some instances in Eregion, layering again comes in, not only for NPC interaction, but to split up the population in one of the instances.

I'm going off memory but the Symbol was around 1089 marks but you needed two other marks. I believe it was mirkwood marks and classic marks but I'm not sure.

The store has some good convenience items. I'll be buying the "return to" skills for various regions. There are also consumed on use swift travel maps available. Might buy some deeds on some alts or I just may grind them to get the turbine points.

Originally Posted by cedwin

From the threads lately, I'd say mainly about the store. Do the beta testers see it as a pay-to-win or pay-to-keep-up situation, or can you completely ignore it and enjoy playing as you always have?

You can ignore it. There is no Pay-to-Win. Everything in the store is FLUFF, even though you can boost your virtues or whatever its all still fluff. Nothing in game except legendary items and radiance gear can give you any real advantage against any other player. LOTRO is not a PvP game and all of the store items are mostly for your fun and faster advancements through the game content.

Also Helegrod is broken into 4 "1.5hrs wings" now. So no 6 hours raiding any more for lvl 50s . Here I spilled some REAL info.. lol

Originally Posted by Beschutzer

yeah,.and? What makes it pay to win?

Okay if your F2P you need to purchase a ton of things to make it even playable. For example, no swift travel, no virtue slots past 2, no quests outside the original 3, no horse travel, no extra toon slots.... the list goes on.

But Im sure you dont care about that.

For lifers/subscribers there are new Stat tomes. PERMANENT stat tomes. +50 (5 ranks or 10 each) for each stat.

The only way to "get" these in game is by killing the boss in the "classic" instances. Classic instances consist of the new "revamped" instance - GB (3 wings), the 3 Annum, Lib/School, and hele (4 wings).

The problem with that is the drop rate is low... like Symbol low. Not to mention you have to have the lower ransk (which drop in the 30-40 lvl instances that are set). So you have to farm them BEFORE you can use your higher lvl 65 instance tomes.

So you CAN get it, but the drop rate is SO low that everyone will buy these. Not to mention that just about any serious raider will have all of these.

Another pay to win is that you can buy virtue upgrades. True it stays at 10, however you skip the entire grind of these. So essentially someone with a big pocket can literally not grind a single deed. Some may argue well grinding deeds doesn't make you a better player, but I feel more time on a class = better player.


Another pay to win, at least to me, is you can buy rep horses and use them EVEN THOUGH YOUR NOT KINDRED. This has alot of people pissed off in beta.

On a side note(s):

Another thing that alot of people are upset about in beta is the non-retroactive-ness of the deeds. I have done liteterally all the deeds in eriador (except etten), all moria, and all Mirk (except LT HM). I will not get a single TP point from that. There is a big arguement in a specific forum - im not getting into it here though.

MANY MANY MANY MANY people are upset with the new bank layout. Its horrid. Think shared vault, but with more filters.

The wardrobe is VERY nice. I have to give them props about it being successful (it now takes all items - not just cosmetics). People (including myself) will be happy with that.

The new Zone is pretty neat. The best music in the game is in the new hobbit town (I've requested housing music item that includes the music from there).

The Lotro store is ABUNDANTLY in your face. Its literally pushed into your face at every other turn. (this annoys me).

The new character select screen has a Giant (as in 25% of your screen) LOTRO STORE button. Its pretty annoying.

Thats it for now.

Originally Posted by Dotlbeme

(About Layering)

Ah, that makes sense. So rather than mini-instances like the rooms up in Gath Forthnir, it's an entire zone.

Originally Posted by Northwoods

...

The revamped introductions are better, mostly. Archet has a real story to it, not just random quests, though I didn't care for the end skirmish.

I ran as a true F2P with no points and found it to play exactly like the current live game through the starter zones (in my case, Bree land) so even without spending a dime you can easily cover the first 20+ levels.

Same experiance here with a Hobbit.

I'm not sure how Lore Purists will like the new Hobbit Intro though. Personally I hated it, but many did love it.

Originally Posted by jayspeed

I'm going off memory but the Symbol was around 1089 marks but you needed two other marks. I believe it was mirkwood marks and classic marks but I'm not sure.

It was classic marks.

But those tokens are SOOOOOOOO easy to get. You need 5 classic. I did a 1 library run and 1 GB wing run. I had 4 tokens. So 3 runs = gauranteed symbol.

Word of advice. SELL YOUR SYMBOLS BEFORE THE PATCH. The prices will drop drastically.

Rather than layered instances, what is described in the spoiler above actually sounds more like the old Sara Oakheart tech at the door of Barad Gularan for vol i book 9 chapter 1 or 2 I forget which it is. She is only visible to those with the quest, anyone else accompanying the questor does not see her.

Originally Posted by Pdt_the_Confused

That actually sounds more like the old Sara Oakheart tech at the door of Barad Gularan for vol i book 9 chapter 1 or 2 I forget which it is. She is only visible to those with the quest, anyone else accompanying the questor does not see her.

That just hid the NPC for those other players though. With layering, you would be in two separate instances if I'm understanding it correctly.

Wow, if I had know this was coming, I would have scheduled my video blog for next week to be about this. Unfortunately, I already am committed to doing a WoW blog this weekend, so my beta video will have to wait until the following week. It all depends on how many distractions I have to deal with, I might find time to do both.

Oh well. Good to not have to censor myself so much anymore.

Originally Posted by Pdt_the_Confused

...what is described in the spoiler above actually sounds more like the old Sara Oakheart tech at the door of Barad Gularan for vol i book 9 chapter 1...

It's based on that tech, but revised, and now... perfected.

MoL

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

You required to have Mirkwood for Volume 3. Volume 3, Book 1 has a level 65 restricted skirmish. You can not reach level 65 without the Mirkwood expansion to raise your level cap. You can not start Volume 3, Book 2 unless you have completed Volume 3, Book 1.

That basically drives what I was thinking. You have to be 65 and you have to have Mirkwood to even BE 65. You cannot go to Mirkwood without Lothlorien and you cannot get to Lothlorien without Moria (at the moment). Perhaps there might be a way around Moria in the future, but I cannot see a mechanic around Lothlorien to get to Mirkwood.

So the question now is, can you skip Volume II, not enter Moria et al. (even though you must own it), level outside and start Volume III? I think you can, can't you?

You wont have LIs so I doubt you would want to skip V2.B1.

(Just playing extended game of 'what if'.)

Here's a DX11 screenshot... Doesn't show the water effects though, but it captures the increased distance of view.

The new emotes are hilarious!

/spin
/tickle
/drunk
/ummandabunchofothersIcan'treme mberatm :P

The new bank and wardrobe are very cool!

Originally Posted by Comstrike

They now have a system called Layered Instances. When you walk into Bree for example, if too many people are in the same place, you may walk into one instance, the person next to you may walk into a second, or third instance of Bree. All chat channels are combined, so you can talk, but not always see each other.

If you join a fellowship, you can click a button that will port you to the same layer.

So the uber lag does go away, but then the crowds cease to exist.

And so it goes, really big gatherings of non-fellow shipped players may face issues.

As an RP'ing member of Landroval, I'm not sure I like this idea. Things like 'Ales and Tale' and other non-kinship specific events could get much harder to coordinate. Small events like kinship patrols will be fine because we generally do them in raids, but what about thing like (for example) band concerts at the Prancing Pony?

Originally Posted by MadeOfLions

It's based on that tech, but revised, and now... perfected.

MoL

as allways MoL, you have a way with words.

no no no /boo is THE best new emote (especially on a hobbit!)

Originally Posted by nikito

Okay if your F2P you need to purchase a ton of things to make it even playable. For example, no swift travel, no virtue slots past 2, no quests outside the original 3, no horse travel, no extra toon slots.... the list goes on.

But Im sure you dont care about that.

For lifers/subscribers there are new Stat tomes. PERMANENT stat tomes. +50 (5 ranks or 10 each) for each stat.

The only way to "get" these in game is by killing the boss in the "classic" instances. Classic instances consist of the new "revamped" instance - GB (3 wings), the 3 Annum, Lib/School, and hele (4 wings).

The problem with that is the drop rate is low... like Symbol low. Not to mention you have to have the lower ransk (which drop in the 30-40 lvl instances that are set). So you have to farm them BEFORE you can use your higher lvl 65 instance tomes.

So you CAN get it, but the drop rate is SO low that everyone will buy these. Not to mention that just about any serious raider will have all of these.

Another pay to win is that you can buy virtue upgrades. True it stays at 10, however you skip the entire grind of these. So essentially someone with a big pocket can literally not grind a single deed. Some may argue well grinding deeds doesn't make you a better player, but I feel more time on a class = better player.


Another pay to win, at least to me, is you can buy rep horses and use them EVEN THOUGH YOUR NOT KINDRED. This has alot of people pissed off in beta.

On a side note(s):

Another thing that alot of people are upset about in beta is the non-retroactive-ness of the deeds. I have done liteterally all the deeds in eriador (except etten), all moria, and all Mirk (except LT HM). I will not get a single TP point from that. There is a big arguement in a specific forum - im not getting into it here though.

MANY MANY MANY MANY people are upset with the new bank layout. Its horrid. Think shared vault, but with more filters.

The wardrobe is VERY nice. I have to give them props about it being successful (it now takes all items - not just cosmetics). People (including myself) will be happy with that.

The new Zone is pretty neat. The best music in the game is in the new hobbit town (I've requested housing music item that includes the music from there).

The Lotro store is ABUNDANTLY in your face. Its literally pushed into your face at every other turn. (this annoys me).

The new character select screen has a Giant (as in 25% of your screen) LOTRO STORE button. Its pretty annoying.

Thats it for now.

The latest and greatest version of the new bank layout I kinda like now that it has grown on me. It does offer a few advantages over what is in live.

I completely agree with the rep horses. I have no problem with someone buying the horse through the store, but you should still need the rep to ride it.

For the virtue buying, as someone who has gotten up to 10+ on all of them on my main and close to that on my main alt, I am cool with it. It is not going to be cheap. I think it satisfies a big call for an easier way to get it done on alts.

As always, to each his own.

Originally Posted by cedwin

That just hid the NPC for those other players though. With layering, you would be in two separate instances if I'm understanding it correctly.

yeah, but this is 2 different things.

layering is for high population, while the hidden NPC thing is pre-existing and now perfected (per MoL) tech.

something some of us had actually hoped to see used before in Rivendell, with frodo and the fellowship as we moved on. (actually there were too many quests attached to the fellowship members in Rivendell for it to be practical for them to use the hidden npc tech there)