Canberra, Australia (Asylum for the Cynically Insane)
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Re: Lua UI Plugins in LOTRO
Originally Posted by Gedachtnis
D_U's Palantir is much like IceHud, well except the LotRO API doesn't allow alot of the functions yet.
It's a pretty basic HUD with standard Power/Morale Bars (Curved only) which have a Wide/Narrow space setting. There is no way currently to add pets/targets etc. But I will say if you miss using a HUD, Palantir is great. It can display numbers/percents/or both, with color changes as the bars empty, it also has a very nice Debuff Indicator Bar that comes in very handy.
The lack of target and pet info could be a bit of a problem. The main use of the hud for me is to quickly compare my health (or pet's) deprication to that of my target, to give me an idea of it's fight or flight. Hopefully the target and pet info will open up as the API does.
Originally Posted by Gedachtnis
There are 2 (I think only 2 right now) Buff Bars, FX and BuffBars. Both are very good.
FX is bit more basic currently whereas BuffBars is a bit more advanced. If you're familiar with Elkos Buff Bars ( I think thats what they're called), which uses a 3 column dynamic bar that grows up and down with Icon/Text Name/ Timer, they are both very similar.
Both currently only support one window, so no splitting buffs/debuffs across the screen. Both are worth checking out.
I'm a big fan of Elk's Buff Bars, so this sounds very hopeful.
Originally Posted by Gedachtnis
Not alot going on with unit frames yet, there is a default Turbine plugin that can change the Player Frame. Really not overly impressive but then I think it's more for the authors to be able to see what can be done.
If it can get rid of portraits ... then that's a step in hte right direction for me. They are clunky and take up more space than they need to.
Originally Posted by Gedachtnis
There is a Quickslot manager, well several actually but one seems more like what you have in mind, TonicBars, which is very reminiscent of Bartender. It's still missing a few features, like scaling and locking the slots, but I belive these may be on the To Do list. It lets you create any number of bars with 1-50 slots each, all movable, Vert or Horiz. very sweet.
WOOT!!!!!!! (*does a little happy dance!!*)
Originally Posted by Gedachtnis
There is also a OneBag mod that will be very familiar if you used it in WoW.
I love the one bag concept. It's still early days, but have a look at ArkInventory. It puts certain categories of items in "virtual bags", like grouping together all junk, crafting mats, tools and so on. Very configurable and convenient.
I'm looking forward to what the community can produce. I'm a big fan of addons. I don't think that addons are the great evil that some people make them out to be. I do think that when people use them blindly and without intelligent consideration (like saying "You shall have a GS of 5.5k or YOU SHALL NOT PASS!") they are just being idiotic and I'd rather not be in that person's raid.
That said, things like DPS meters can be very useful to improve your output ... but you still need to know WHEN to DPS and when to let the tank have aggro.
D_U's Palantir is much like IceHud, well except the LotRO API doesn't allow alot of the functions yet.
It's a pretty basic HUD with standard Power/Morale Bars (Curved only) which have a Wide/Narrow space setting. There is no way currently to add pets/targets etc. But I will say if you miss using a HUD, Palantir is great. It can display numbers/percents/or both, with color changes as the bars empty, it also has a very nice Debuff Indicator Bar that comes in very handy.
Well, to be completely honest - the color change thing is in the upcomming release. However, unless "fall" or open beta turns out to be the middle of August, I'll be just nitpicking for all intents and purposes.
However, I am happy that I can start posting photos and possibly videos of some of the things I've been blabbing about - a picture worth a thousand words and all lol
Originally Posted by Lichbane
The lack of target and pet info could be a bit of a problem. The main use of the hud for me is to quickly compare my health (or pet's) deprication to that of my target, to give me an idea of it's fight or flight. Hopefully the target and pet info will open up as the API does.
You can feel assured that I plan on continuing to keep this updated so it takes advantage of every last available API feature - as soon as possible after it's been made available. All this stuff you mention (and a lot more than that) is all stuff I really want to add to it. Although I probably could make my own thread about it now on the live forums, here's a quick rundown of the features that will exist by live at the latest, if not before open beta:
Morale/Power bars (duh.)
Debuff indicator showing whether you have any of the 4 main curable debuffs
An option to "stock" the indicator with pots/skills to allow you to click on the indicator to cure.
Indicator will show how many pots you have, and keep track of (user supplied -at this time) cooldown times.
Text will be able to be positioned at 8 different locations around each bar.
Text has multiple display options, including cur/max, percentage, current, and percentage with cur/max
Bars can be spaced freely (horizontally)
The entire HUD can be positioned as you would any other UI element (complete with the traditional "box" and behaviors)
Palantir will hide itself when the user hides their UI.
Bars will support any color (standard green/blue by default) as well as two user-specified colors for specific percentages. For instance, you could set 50% as yellow, and 25% as red, and the bars will fade from one color to the next.
Bars can also be set to that the colors don't "fade" between the points.
Bars will also support two percentage-based animation effects, including type (pulse, flash, etc) and speed.
In addition I plan on increasing the choices of bar shapes, and/or provide a method to add in custom bar shapes at some point in the near future (i.e. not next version). It is currently being rewritten to provide a more "modular" structure, to easily accommodate any API additions with a minimum of time/effort.
Now that the NDA is lifted could somebody official like Narrel post all the development guidelines etc. to everybody? Since we're not allowed to copy or link anything from NDA content you need to do it since nobody will write down the whole documentation again in his own words.
"Into the night
Soon he disappears
And in the back the attack of the black riders start" - Frodo's Dream, Van Canto
Now that the NDA is lifted could somebody official like Narrel post all the development guidelines etc. to everybody? Since we're not allowed to copy or link anything from NDA content you need to do it since nobody will write down the whole documentation again in his own words.
I can't obviously post the API documentation itself, but that thread should answer most questions, and I'll be happy to answer any others you might have.
This post was mostly right - but I did write a DPS tracker for the player (although I haven't tested if it still works - it is kind of a 'hack' - Update: kinda still works if every 15 seconds is good enough dps updates).
Also I think that writing a bejewelled or tic-tac-toe style single player mini-game is entirely feasible. It would require a bit more work than my timer plugin, but not that much.
I can't obviously post the API documentation itself, but that thread should answer most questions, and I'll be happy to answer any others you might have.
I'm in the beta myself, I don't have any problems, thanks. But I'm sure there are people who want to develop LUA addons who aren't in the beta. And they need the API documentation, not a summary.
But by the way, great work, I really like your LUA posts.
"Into the night
Soon he disappears
And in the back the attack of the black riders start" - Frodo's Dream, Van Canto
I'm in the beta myself, I don't have any problems, thanks. But I'm sure there are people who want to develop LUA addons who aren't in the beta. And they need the API documentation, not a summary.
But by the way, great work, I really like your LUA posts.
The API has changed subtly with each new beta release so far. If someone attempted to author a plugin based on the "current" documentation, it wouldn't even work. (The documentation hasn't been updated since Beta 2 a month or so ago, despite several feature-breaking changes having been made.) Not to mention the author would be unable to test the plugin.
There are now ways to get a guaranteed beta invite (fileplanet, I believe) if authors are itching to contribute.
I'm in the beta myself, I don't have any problems, thanks. But I'm sure there are people who want to develop LUA addons who aren't in the beta. And they need the API documentation, not a summary.
But by the way, great work, I really like your LUA posts.
Unfortunately, while the NDA has been lifted, that does not apply to the API documentation itself. It is still "Beta Only", and has the following at the bottom of the page:
This documentation is provided for Beta testing only.
Not for redistribution.
So, I'm not about to take any chances of sharing this documentation outside of beta until that part is removed.
So, I'm not about to take any chances of sharing this documentation outside of beta until that part is removed.
I know the problems and I appreciate the work of all those working on the subject. That's why I was asking someone official to publish the documents since we are not allowed to do this. But with the release coming ahead (now with the NDA lifted I expect the PAX date) we will see what happens.
"Into the night
Soon he disappears
And in the back the attack of the black riders start" - Frodo's Dream, Van Canto
With folks as dedicated as DU and others at the helm of such LUA projects, things are looking really exciting.
Nice job guys!
...holding aggro, and living to tell about it.
This used to be a signature picture before Turbine "fixed" the forums.
Your sword's grown old and rusty - Burnt beneath the rising sun
It's locked up like a trophy - Forgetting all the things it's done
Couple questions for those that know a hell alot more about this stuff then I do (Looks at Utopia)
-Threat meters
-DPS meters
-SKL/DKP add-ons
-Gear score
-Boss skill timers
-Player skill UI add-ons that show cooldowns on the icon vs hovering over
With the boss skill timers, as an example: Fellbeast flies in the air every 60s. He does do the same 'emote' in /say everytime. Fellbeast targets player with eye every 30s no name but scripted 'emote' in /say.
Any way to have all that /say stuff streamlined and on timer in a neat little box in the corner?
Player skill timers speaks for istelf really, but having a simple 10s, 9s, ect on the skill itself instead of me hovering over the skill looking at the tooltip display and looking for the cooldown.
Couple questions for those that know a hell alot more about this stuff then I do (Looks at Utopia)
-Threat meters
-DPS meters
-SKL/DKP add-ons
-Gear score
-Boss skill timers
-Player skill UI add-ons that show cooldowns on the icon vs hovering over
With the boss skill timers, as an example: Fellbeast flies in the air every 60s. He does do the same 'emote' in /say everytime. Fellbeast targets player with eye every 30s no name but scripted 'emote' in /say.
Any way to have all that /say stuff streamlined and on timer in a neat little box in the corner?
Player skill timers speaks for istelf really, but having a simple 10s, 9s, ect on the skill itself instead of me hovering over the skill looking at the tooltip display and looking for the cooldown.
Thx guys.
Pretty much not possible to all of these, with the exception of DKP. You would not be able to have an automated DKP type tool, for example something that would automatically know who attended an event, etc...
But, you could have a tool that someone could use in game to manually track that type of stuff.
The main reason these are not possible, is we have no access to any of the chat window data. We also do not have access to very much info about what a character is actually doing at any given time, like executing skills, etc...
Hope that helps.
Edit: We also do not have access to the items a character is wearing.
Pretty much not possible to all of these, with the exception of DKP. You would not be able to have an automated DKP type tool, for example something that would automatically know who attended an event, etc...
But, you could have a tool that someone could use in game to manually track that type of stuff.
The main reason these are not possible, is we have no access to any of the chat window data. We also do not have access to very much info about what a character is actually doing at any given time, like executing skills, etc...
Hope that helps.
Edit: We also do not have access to the items a character is wearing.
That does help, thank you for the info!
So there is very little to get excited about then (For raiders)
Though the mouse finder would be nice, only if the color/size could be adjusted. That does me in more then anything.
With the ability to log chat, no way to incorporate the chat logs into a timer for skills ect?
So there is very little to get excited about then (For raiders)
Though the mouse finder would be nice, only if the color/size could be adjusted. That does me in more then anything.
With the ability to log chat, no way to incorporate the chat logs into a timer for skills ect?
Scrappy created a rudimentary mouse finder, and I suggested someone create a plugin that does a single color repeating pulse whenever the mouse stays in the same position for so long. However, I haven't had a chance to do it, and to my knowledge nobody else has tried something like it (or better) yet. In that case both color and size could be adjusted easily enough.
Scrappy created a rudimentary mouse finder, and I suggested someone create a plugin that does a single color repeating pulse whenever the mouse stays in the same position for so long. However, I haven't had a chance to do it, and to my knowledge nobody else has tried something like it (or better) yet. In that case both color and size could be adjusted easily enough.
Turbine wont do it, been asking for it since SoA beta. If someone ever found the time to do such a thing, I know several players would use it and be greatly appreciative of such work!
Turbine wont do it, been asking for it since SoA beta. If someone ever found the time to do such a thing, I know several players would use it and be greatly appreciative of such work!
Well, if I don't see anybody jumping on it by the time I release the next version of the plugin I'm working on, I'll go ahead and do it. It shouldn't take very long to do.
Couple questions for those that know a hell alot more about this stuff then I do (Looks at Utopia)
-Threat meters
-DPS meters
-Gear score
-Boss skill timers
-Player skill UI add-ons that show cooldowns on the icon vs hovering over
With the boss skill timers, as an example: Fellbeast flies in the air every 60s. He does do the same 'emote' in /say everytime. Fellbeast targets player with eye every 30s no name but scripted 'emote' in /say.
Any way to have all that /say stuff streamlined and on timer in a neat little box in the corner?
Player skill timers speaks for istelf really, but having a simple 10s, 9s, ect on the skill itself instead of me hovering over the skill looking at the tooltip display and looking for the cooldown.
Thx guys.
Alot of this type of stuff would kill alot of the fun, its one of the main reasons i dont play wow, i got sic of having to keep up with mods just to raid. Gear score is the biggest joke anyway, things like threat meters would take away the risk of being in SS as a hunter, you would know when to ease up so the tank doesnt lose aggro etc. knowing exactly when the boss is going to do a special attack well in advance also kinda wrecks alot of the fun of playing, having thiings flash when there off cd etc takes away all the skill or having a good rotation and watching multiple buffs/debuffs. I do hope they keep all this scripting stuff to a minimun.
Alot of this type of stuff would kill alot of the fun, its one of the main reasons i dont play wow, i got sic of having to keep up with mods just to raid. Gear score is the biggest joke anyway, things like threat meters would take away the risk of being in SS as a hunter, you would know when to ease up so the tank doesnt lose aggro etc. knowing exactly when the boss is going to do a special attack well in advance also kinda wrecks alot of the fun of playing, having thiings flash when there off cd etc takes away all the skill or having a good rotation and watching multiple buffs/debuffs. I do hope they keep all this scripting stuff to a minimun.
If you dont like it, dont use it. If your in a kin that wants to use them, then find a new kin.
Utopia, or anyone else with knowladge of the Lua stuffs:
Is there any way to adjust the size/color/opaqueness of the Examination Tooltip Display?
I want to be able to see what I'm looking at, it just doesn't have to be so big and getting in the way of stuffs.
Utopia, or anyone else with knowladge of the Lua stuffs:
Is there any way to adjust the size/color/opaqueness of the Examination Tooltip Display?
I want to be able to see what I'm looking at, it just doesn't have to be so big and getting in the way of stuffs.
Thx again, you guys rule!
Not that I can think of with the scripting. But I think you can skin the tooltip window to make it more opaque. That would probably affect other windows at the same time though, but I am not that familiar with skinning.
Alot of this type of stuff would kill alot of the fun, its one of the main reasons i dont play wow, i got sic of having to keep up with mods just to raid. Gear score is the biggest joke anyway, things like threat meters would take away the risk of being in SS as a hunter, you would know when to ease up so the tank doesnt lose aggro etc. knowing exactly when the boss is going to do a special attack well in advance also kinda wrecks alot of the fun of playing, having thiings flash when there off cd etc takes away all the skill or having a good rotation and watching multiple buffs/debuffs. I do hope they keep all this scripting stuff to a minimun.
I agree 100%
I am not any kind of doomsayer, that kind of scripting didn’t kill WoW, but it did take a tremendous amount of fun out of playing.
As long as the API scripting has extensive limitations, so that it can only display what the UI already displays ( but in a different fashion ) I have no issue here.
I am not any kind of doomsayer, that kind of scripting didn’t kill WoW, but it did take a tremendous amount of fun out of playing.
As long as the API scripting has extensive limitations, so that it can only display what the UI already displays ( but in a different fashion ) I have no issue here.
I think the most important difference is not that these things exist in WoW, but that the community itself made these things "mandatory". Although I don't have a problem with a lot of these ideas, such as aggro/dps meters, as there will always be those who want as much information as possible. The problem comes when there's a way for one player to enforce an arbitrary requirement on another. For that reason, I sincerely hope that plugin communication between players, and other methods of checking what plugins a player has never gets implemented.
In my mind, Lua plugins exist solely for players to improve their own experience within the game, not to govern what other players do.
I think the most important difference is not that these things exist in WoW, but that the community itself made these things "mandatory". Although I don't have a problem with a lot of these ideas, such as aggro/dps meters, as there will always be those who want as much information as possible. The problem comes when there's a way for one player to enforce an arbitrary requirement on another. For that reason, I sincerely hope that plugin communication between players, and other methods of checking what plugins a player has never gets implemented.
In my mind, Lua plugins exist solely for players to improve their own experience within the game, not to govern what other players do.
This should be stated over and over. The mandatory use of addons is wholly and entirely created by the community.
BTW D_U,
Are any of the following possible with the API?
Range Finder - shows the distance between you and your target, I doubt it since you can't access the target info yet.
A Graph paper type overlay for the screen. I had one of these in WoW. Pretty much you loaded it up and it placed lines across your screen so it looked just like graph paper. You could then move UI elements around and line them up nice and straight. Just a handy little tool to make the custom UI's nice and neat.
"Even though I've been a stranger, full of irony and spite, Holding little but contempt for all things beautiful and bright, Something shines around you, and it seems to my delight, To give me, just a little sweetness...Just a little Light”
This should be stated over and over. The mandatory use of addons is wholly and entirely created by the community.
BTW D_U,
Are any of the following possible with the API?
Range Finder - shows the distance between you and your target, I doubt it since you can't access the target info yet.
A Graph paper type overlay for the screen. I had one of these in WoW. Pretty much you loaded it up and it placed lines across your screen so it looked just like graph paper. You could then move UI elements around and line them up nice and straight. Just a handy little tool to make the custom UI's nice and neat.
No to the first one, but the 2nd one should be more than possible. I was thinking about creating a "Drawing" class similar to other languages that allows you to draw lines, shapes etc. And I was also playing around with a cheap MS Paint type idea, unfortunately the latter doesn't work too well, because there seems to be a delay between successive mouse position calls.
So yeah, in short - it would be relatively easy to place a graph on the screen with a transparent background, and making it so it isn't MouseVisible.
No to the first one, but the 2nd one should be more than possible. I was thinking about creating a "Drawing" class similar to other languages that allows you to draw lines, shapes etc. And I was also playing around with a cheap MS Paint type idea, unfortunately the latter doesn't work too well, because there seems to be a delay between successive mouse position calls.
So yeah, in short - it would be relatively easy to place a graph on the screen with a transparent background, and making it so it isn't MouseVisible.
Ahh yes, Align for WoW. This my OCD would love for perfectly aligned and positioned windows. mmm...
Ahh yes, Align for WoW. This my OCD would love for perfectly aligned and positioned windows. mmm...
ALIGN!! That was it, and yes I'm right there with ya, spending hours getting it just right
"Even though I've been a stranger, full of irony and spite, Holding little but contempt for all things beautiful and bright, Something shines around you, and it seems to my delight, To give me, just a little sweetness...Just a little Light”
No to the first one, but the 2nd one should be more than possible. I was thinking about creating a "Drawing" class similar to other languages that allows you to draw lines, shapes etc. And I was also playing around with a cheap MS Paint type idea, unfortunately the latter doesn't work too well, because there seems to be a delay between successive mouse position calls.
So yeah, in short - it would be relatively easy to place a graph on the screen with a transparent background, and making it so it isn't MouseVisible.
Do you use Notepad++ or something similar to write with?
I'm an IDE type and NP++ seems to be the best thing I can find to mess around with Lua. I'm also a C#/C++/Java type and the syntax and style is a little odd. Would you recommend playing with regular Lua scripting to get started? I don't want to bork my game trying to get used to plugins.
Do you use Notepad++ or something similar to write with?
I'm an IDE type and NP++ seems to be the best thing I can find to mess around with Lua. I'm also a C#/C++/Java type and the syntax and style is a little odd. Would you recommend playing with regular Lua scripting to get started? I don't want to bork my game trying to get used to plugins.
I use Ultra-Edit for most scripting, including Lua (C# I use the VS IDE), and I actually did put up syntax highlighting plugins for UE/Np++/PSPad - although admittedly they aren't as perfect as I'd like them to be - but they do include all the API classes/functions/keywords.
As far as learning it goes - while it is different than the standard C-based languages, it's not completely so. The best I could suggest is keeping this on hand for examples of structure.
The first thing to keep in mind is that Lua doesn't assume that when you're calling a function via an instance of a class (i.e. myPlayer.GetLevel()) that you're actually passing that instance to the function. So instead you'll have to use the ":" operator (i.e. myPlayer:GetLevel())
Most of the rest is just difference in structure, and some operators. for example:
if/elseif/else
Code:
if (x ~= true and y==false)then
--do something
elseif (x==true and y~=false)then
--do something else
else
--do whatever
end
other than the wordy replacement for brackets, there's a couple other things to note: First, -- is the Lua equivalent of // (--[[ and ]]-- are block comments) . Second, ~= is the Lua equivalent of != .
for
Code:
for x=1,200 do
--do something
end
That actually would be the equivalent of doing:
Code:
if (x=0;x<=200;x++){
//do something
}
You can however add your own incremental as a 3rd parameter to the if statement, otherwise it will automatically increment by 1.
while
Code:
while (x < 20) do
--do something
end
There's a few quirks here and there, as well as stuff like scoping and "self", but most of that can be easily picked up on just by looking over the Turbine example plugins as well as the plugins of other authors.
Overall though, there's relatively few actual Lua functions we'll have access to. We're limited to the base functions, as well as the math library, so the lion's share of functions will be from the LotRO API. So while you could take the time to learn the language from scratch, you'll probably be better off just adapting like you probably have been - think of how you'd do it in your "native" language, and adapt it to Lua syntax/structure.
Just to let you know, don't be surprised if you have to go in and fix errors from accidentally falling back on c-based operators/structure pretty frequently at first. I think all of us have had that problem - and to an extent still do.
why did you make a separate account instead of adding the beta key to the sub'd one?
Because that's what some of us were asked to do?
"Even though I've been a stranger, full of irony and spite, Holding little but contempt for all things beautiful and bright, Something shines around you, and it seems to my delight, To give me, just a little sweetness...Just a little Light”
nm, logged my beta forum acct and viola!, all the beta forums become visible at the bottome of the page, doh!
Apologies, I have 2 accts. Ony one acct rec'd a beta invite. While logged in the non-beta sub acct, i tried to find the beta forums...doh!, not visible to me. I then logged into my beta sub acct and viola, there was the beta forums.
Digital, I played around with the buffbars addon, not yours (yet) but the other one. If you are aware of it, there is a cooldown timer for pots when you use them to cure a debuff thats applied, or morale pots ect.
I'm assuming its able to do this because these pots are placed in the custom UI slot for that addon.
If that is able to be written, is it still not possible to write one for skills on other UIs?
I'd love to see a bar with timer for skills and a filter for skills with cooldowns under 10s over 5m ect.
Digital, I played around with the buffbars addon, not yours (yet) but the other one. If you are aware of it, there is a cooldown timer for pots when you use them to cure a debuff thats applied, or morale pots ect.
I'm assuming its able to do this because these pots are placed in the custom UI slot for that addon.
If that is able to be written, is it still not possible to write one for skills on other UIs?
I'd love to see a bar with timer for skills and a filter for skills with cooldowns under 10s over 5m ect.
Not to speak for D_U but the author for BuffBars found a workaround for the pot cd's.
Basically BuffBars watches for a change in the stack size of the relevent pot. when the stack decreases BuffBars starts it's own 2 min timer. Split a stack of pots in your bags, it sets the timer off
I know there was some talk with one of the addons at some point about having a timer trigger off of a keystroke. I'm not sure how far that idea got though. Pretty much you would have to define the keystroke, then define the length of cooldown for each one you want to track and change it anytime you changed Quickslots. Also try splitting a stack of pots in your inventory multiple times, it will trigger a cd timer each time, I imagine you'd have the same issue if you tried using the keystroke before the cd was finished.
EDIT: It doesn't matter which pots are in BuffBars Quickslots, if it's watching potion CD's any stack split or use will trigger it.
Last edited by Gedachtnis; Aug 11 2010 at 12:51 PM.
"Even though I've been a stranger, full of irony and spite, Holding little but contempt for all things beautiful and bright, Something shines around you, and it seems to my delight, To give me, just a little sweetness...Just a little Light”
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