In all fairness there are ways to combat the aoe slow. Champs guards can sprint(not sure if make haste will negate slow) burgs can hips push through and im almost certain the survival guides will negate it too. Wargs,reavers can sprint past and the +20% run speed pots on top of mobilize(pending you dont get in combat going through) will help a ton.
All of this is all well and good only if you use the strengths,skills and tools available to you. You can choose to use your skillset to your advantage orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr keep complaining about how every class thats your polar creepside is op.(Wasnt directed at any one person:P)
Thanks for making me post again Ugh, lol. Your point about ways to get through the slows is valid, but on that landing, the problem is that you don't go THROUGH the slow, you go into it...and stay there. That flag room fight was the creeps taking a page from the freep playbook and the freeps not enjoying the result.
What kind of fool comes to the battlefield to sing rather than fight? A dead fool.
Just a bit about freep aoe dps, champs in particular. Currently my champ can do 1k base damage with a 3 fervour pip skill, with self-buffs, and when traited this skill can hit 10 targets. While the self-buff requires a mob with 50% or lower morale a Captain's To Arms skill adds the same amount of damage. So if you have 4 champs and 4 cappies you can instantly do around 4k damage to 10 targets in a closed space. Considering the cool down on that skill is only 10s within 30s freeps could potentially do over 12k damage to 10 targets with just 4 champs and 4 cappies.
Take this information as you may, but from my understanding that's pretty much going to wipe a raid in under a minute in closed spaces.
I'm disappointed. From the title I was expecting a thread about this.
As usual though, it was just more wasted pixels. Wasted for one of two reasons:
1. Poorly thought-out, improperly argued ideas of no real value. 2. Well-thought-out, clearly argued ideas ignored by the people most in need of understanding them (see 1.).
Without re-hashing all the arguments, I think the heart of the matter can be found in this statement:
Originally Posted by reincarnate
If I outnumbered the other side I would fight them anywhere and everywhere.
Would that you had said:
Originally Posted by reincarnate
Regardless of numbers, I would fight them anywhere and everywhere.
All the issues could be resolved with this simple change in attitude.
On a side note, I'm fairly certain, Ugh, that run pots and mobilize do not stack.
Also, the middle landing aoe hell has been beaten recently, more than once - that is they were eventually all killed but at the expense of a continuous flow of creeps from the rez eventually winning the war of attrition.
Edro gûr lín /Mirdautas vras – Narnulublat... shum Sertsac’s Second Law of PvMP Dynamics: Inequity Increases
« N’attribuez jamais à la malveillance ce qui s’explique très bien par l’incompétence. »
I, like most freeps in the raid last night, was a little disappointed at the TR fight. I don't care that we got wiped in the flag room, you win some and you lose some, and at the end of it, I was glad that Aristedes had the balls to push what we knew was a larger force. I don't know if the creeps let us take the Tyrant down or not, but it did make the final fight a bit more fun with the flag on the line. Freeps just ended up on the losing side of it.
I was disappointed at the fact we had to fight you in a keep. We all would have had more fun (both sides) with a few open field fights between two rezzes. Renoun and infamy would have flowed on both sides (which is what we all care about at the end of the day) and we would have had another solid hour or two of fighting raid+ on raid+.
I was disappointed at the fact the creep raid+ ninja'd the keep. The keeps are there to promote fighting, why ninja it? We could have had some great fights at the TR wall and TR lawn. Instead we spent 30 minutes doing nothing, had one fight, and logged.
I am always shocked at how skewed the numbers get the next day from what they were. Why can't we all just be honest? The freep raid had 23/24 people (and two of them were stuck outside) plus one hunter out of raid. After we wiped, I counted 32 creeps in the flag room. Is this accurate? Freeps do this too by the way, not just creeps. Even if 24 of those 32 creeps were blue rings (and I saw a lot of green/blue rings last night) what would still be a tough fight for freeps to win, regardless of skill, with all the WL rezzes up.
Anyways, the freeps pushed to get the action going. I hope I don't see creeps on the forums this week talking about freeps hiding in NPCS: creeps hid in a keep with superior numbers last night, and the freeps pushed anyways. Lets put that QQ away for awhile.
I understand where you are coming from but I think it's total BS.
1. Freeps never ever push anything, all I hear is how freeps fight in creep keep while creeps have the advantage. Guess what, you're really not fighting anything or pushing when you spend 1-2hrs on the middle landing. 95% of the time you all sit there and when creeps decide not to come down you map out. Last nightcwas quite the surprise that you came up. On top of all that, why are you complaining at all, it's not like you fought us or the npcs at the same time the whole nite, you wiped npcs the attempted to wipe creeps. To top it all off it was in your favour being in there not ours, it would have been so much easier out in the open.
2. Open field fight?????? I would have given you all a gold each if you woulda had one. Freeps have done nothing but try to avoid open field and constantly run to their cubby like rats.
3. Fight between two rezzes or tr lawn/wall with a blue keep..... Umm no!! This results in freeps constantly running back in the keep and not fighting. What's the point? It's been attempted so many times, no use in trying again.
4. Superior numbers??? Pushing???? Comon now, who are we trying to fool here? As I said in #1 - you killed npcs the freeps never together. We had a raid, anything outside that raid is useless because it's leeches with no heals or ppl just tagging along because the raid was full, how effective are those on landing or solo bs a raid of freeps? Maybe in the open while ganking - that would be understandable. All this with low ranks and inexperienced creeps, rezing only helps you, especially in a tight space.
All freeps need to get over this BS abd play the game. If pvp is so bad for you abd in creep favour, why are there more ranked freeps than creeps? Who has gained more overall ren/infamy over the last 3yrs? Which side?
I understand where you are coming from but I think it's total BS.
1. Freeps never ever push anything, all I hear is how freeps fight in creep keep while creeps have the advantage. Guess what, you're really not fighting anything or pushing when you spend 1-2hrs on the middle landing. 95% of the time you all sit there and when creeps decide not to come down you map out. Last nightcwas quite the surprise that you came up. On top of all that, why are you complaining at all, it's not like you fought us or the npcs at the same time the whole nite, you wiped npcs the attempted to wipe creeps. To top it all off it was in your favour being in there not ours, it would have been so much easier out in the open.
2. Open field fight?????? I would have given you all a gold each if you woulda had one. Freeps have done nothing but try to avoid open field and constantly run to their cubby like rats.
3. Fight between two rezzes or tr lawn/wall with a blue keep..... Umm no!! This results in freeps constantly running back in the keep and not fighting. What's the point? It's been attempted so many times, no use in trying again.
4. Superior numbers??? Pushing???? Comon now, who are we trying to fool here? As I said in #1 - you killed npcs the freeps never together. We had a raid, anything outside that raid is useless because it's leeches with no heals or ppl just tagging along because the raid was full, how effective are those on landing or solo bs a raid of freeps? Maybe in the open while ganking - that would be understandable. All this with low ranks and inexperienced creeps, rezing only helps you, especially in a tight space.
All freeps need to get over this BS abd play the game. If pvp is so bad for you abd in creep favour, why are there more ranked freeps than creeps? Who has gained more overall ren/infamy over the last 3yrs? Which side?
This post is laughable.
[Gladden] Third Marshal Aristeides, Third Marshal Clevinger, High-Warden Katsimbalis, Lieutenant Creamsicle
We all would have had more fun (both sides) with a few open field fights between two rezzes.
Agreed. Why wouldn't the freeps come out in the open during the hours that preceded the ninja?
Originally Posted by jmsgalla
I was disappointed at the fact the creep raid+ ninja'd the keep.
Without prejudice to the motivations of those in charge, it certainly seemed to me to be a justified response to the freep attitude during the preceding hours....
Originally Posted by jmsgalla
I am always shocked at how skewed the numbers get the next day from what they were.
Why get hung up on numbers in the first place?
Originally Posted by jmsgalla
Renoun and infamy would have flowed on both sides (which is what we all care about at the end of the day)
I respectfully disagree. The only reason I play is to have fun. Infamy is secondary (and at rank 11 almost entirely irrelevant) only in that its accumulation provides additional skills.
Edro gûr lín /Mirdautas vras – Narnulublat... shum Sertsac’s Second Law of PvMP Dynamics: Inequity Increases
« N’attribuez jamais à la malveillance ce qui s’explique très bien par l’incompétence. »
In regards to the desire for an open field fight. Once you guys set up shop on the middle landing, how exactly would the creeps initiate an open field fight? Leave you in a red keep unapposed and wait for you to flip it then hope that you get far enough from that keep's NPCs and rez for the fight to be a good one?
I just find it ironic that both sides are wishing there had been an open field fight in the same thread that people from both sides are also complaining that their opponents were trying to draw the fight into an advantageous situation.
I can't speak to the ninja reasoning because I logged on after it had been done and the freeps had set up shop on the middle landing. Based how close to even the numbers were, I can confidently say that fighting inside a freep held keep would've been a losing proposition for that creep raid unless possibly the creeps managed to just pull another page from the freep handbook and cleared the bottom floor and set up a farming session.
What kind of fool comes to the battlefield to sing rather than fight? A dead fool.
1. Freeps never ever push anything, all I hear is how freeps fight in creep keep while creeps have the advantage. Guess what, you're really not fighting anything or pushing when you spend 1-2hrs on the middle landing. 95% of the time you all sit there and when creeps decide not to come down you map out. Last nightcwas quite the surprise that you came up. On top of all that, why are you complaining at all, it's not like you fought us or the npcs at the same time the whole nite, you wiped npcs the attempted to wipe creeps. To top it all off it was in your favour being in there not ours, it would have been so much easier out in the open.
I am complaining about the fact we did more PvE in 45 minutes than we did PvP. I would think the creeps would have the same complaint.
Originally Posted by Tosic07
2. Open field fight?????? I would have given you all a gold each if you woulda had one. Freeps have done nothing but try to avoid open field and constantly run to their cubby like rats.
To be honest, last night the freep raid chased the creep raid across the map looking ofr an open fight. We were all over at the old Lugz hotspot looking for you when you ninja'd the TR. We mapped back to GV to fight. Freeps do run to NPCs at times. So do creeps, it's a matter of evening out skewed numbers. Can you honestly say you've never back up to a rez, or Grams, or TA, or OC when the freeps were wiping you?
Originally Posted by Tosic07
3. Fight between two rezzes or tr lawn/wall with a blue keep..... Umm no!! This results in freeps constantly running back in the keep and not fighting. What's the point? It's been attempted so many times, no use in trying again.
So you think a fight at the GTA or EC Xrds is unfair because it's (almost) equally distant from TR/Lug rez? That gives freeps a zerg advantage? Freeps run back from the rez becuase we don't have the rez power creeps do, and most often, it ends in more infamy for creeps as freeps stagger into the fight.
Originally Posted by Tosic07
4. Superior numbers??? Pushing???? Comon now, who are we trying to fool here? As I said in #1 - you killed npcs the freeps never together. We had a raid, anything outside that raid is useless because it's leeches with no heals or ppl just tagging along because the raid was full, how effective are those on landing or solo bs a raid of freeps? Maybe in the open while ganking - that would be understandable. All this with low ranks and inexperienced creeps, rezing only helps you, especially in a tight space.
Let me explain, this is complicated. The 8 extra creeps outside of the raid ARE significant, go figure. They add to net DPS and they distribute the damage taken. Are one ore two people outside the raid effective, yes to an extent, bu they are often a speed bump. Are 8 people outside the raid effective, yes. That an extra 33% damage and 33% mitigation. The freeps don't know who is or isn't in raid, so every seconds wasyed on dpsing a non-raid creep down is time the creep raid is beating on the freeps and getting healed up. You really think having 33% more numbers is not effective because they aren't in raid?
Originally Posted by Tosic07
All freeps need to get over this BS abd play the game. If pvp is so bad for you abd in creep favour, why are there more ranked freeps than creeps? Who has gained more overall ren/infamy over the last 3yrs? Which side?
I think we all know there are more ranked freeps because, at one time, PvP was skewed heavily to freep favor in both numbers and being op'd. Most of those freeps stopped being freeps when creeps got buffed and numbers began to skew. So I ask you the same question, who has gained more renoun/infamy over the past month? How about past year?
now. We didn't like the fighting situation last night. i think that is clear. But we all know how to fix it. give it some time, keep populating the moors, and we will learn each others tactics and have great fun!
keep in mind that we, as freep or creep leaders should always be ready to try something new
Turbolaser - 75 Warden - Senseless - 75 Lore Master - Burninate - 75 Champion - Orient - 65 Hunter - Faerondin - 75 Burglar
Just beware...the badgers do not take kindly to... *screams as his leg is mauled*
In regards to the desire for an open field fight. Once you guys set up shop on the middle landing, how exactly would the creeps initiate an open field fight?
I can't speak for our leadership on this, but from my take: I think this was a problem for the freeps too. We had all just used our maps to GV to get to TR, and we ended up sitting between an entire floor for NPCs below and a floor and a raid above. We couldn't map out, and we couldn't really go either up or down without pulling NPCs. I do think if the creeps had jumped out, or mapped out, the freeps would have moved out of the keep to avoid fighing creeps and NPCs at once.
I respectfully disagree. The only reason I play is to have fun. Infamy is secondary (and at rank 11 almost entirely irrelevant) only in that its accumulation provides additional skills.
Well you are in a different situation from most of us, but hey, at least you get something for your rank! I agree that having fun is the most important part of playing a video game, but can you honestly say you had more fun sitting in the flag room for 30 minutes than you would have had fighting for 30 minutes? I would have rather wipe 5 times in that 30 minutes than sit there and do nothing.
I bet if I had left John Dillinger in my bank and left he would have kindly locked it up too. O.o
Not saying we would have done it altruistically, I am saying we would have been in a bad position if we had tried to take the keep with the creep raid parked outside. it also would have broken up the 2nd landing blender you wanted to avoid.
I have yet to see any creep other than node speak out against the dot raids that glee makes. Don't see no creep complaining when there are 20 dots on a single freep target in the open but when they have to push on the second landing then all heck breaks loose. So if glee doesn't wanna change his style of stacking nothing but dots, then don't expect freeps to change thiers. Again stop blaming freeps for all that's wrong in the moors because creeps need to step up and change as well, if creeps aren't willing to change their ways, then why should we?
Behind every successful person lies a pack of Haters! I love my haters!
Hand of Doom---Pre Update 11
If, as a freep, renown only gives you rank and rank gives you nothing, why do you care about getting renown?
Originally Posted by jmsgalla
can you honestly say you had more fun sitting in the flag room for 30 minutes than you would have had fighting for 30 minutes? I would have rather wipe 5 times in that 30 minutes than sit there and do nothing.
I always speak honestly.
Yes, I would rather actually be fighting, even if it means dying 5 times in 30 minutes, than sitting around doing nothing. However, it takes two to tango, as they say, and if, as you claim, the freeps were finally ready to tango (after refusing for hours and even days) how do you expect creeps to understand this?
Edro gûr lín /Mirdautas vras – Narnulublat... shum Sertsac’s Second Law of PvMP Dynamics: Inequity Increases
« N’attribuez jamais à la malveillance ce qui s’explique très bien par l’incompétence. »
If, as a freep, renown only gives you rank and rank gives you nothing, why do you care about getting renown?
Epeen!
Originally Posted by Sertsac
Yes, I would rather actually be fighting, even if it means dying 5 times in 30 minutes, than sitting around doing nothing. However, it takes two to tango, as they say, and if, as you claim, the freeps were finally ready to tango (after refusing for hours and even days) how do you expect creeps to understand this?
It does only take 1 person to initiate though. The freeps finally did it, bu wasted a lot of time in the progress. I don't know what happened before, as I logged in while the freeps were chasing the creeps from TR to Lug to TR.
I am not saying it's the creeps job to make content for the freeps, or vise-versa, however if both sides push a bit more (even if it's a wipe), we all have more fun. I think leaders of both sides (perhaps maybe one on each side) are pretty good about not wiping the floor with the other side so badly that they log. If the fighting is constant, everyone wins.
Well you are in a different situation from most of us, but hey, at least you get something for your rank! I agree that having fun is the most important part of playing a video game, but can you honestly say you had more fun sitting in the flag room for 30 minutes than you would have had fighting for 30 minutes? I would have rather wipe 5 times in that 30 minutes than sit there and do nothing.
Ask freeps, they got slot of experience in this field, last night we tried it out and realized it's worth doing to deny you any renowen. I hate it, bit if it needs to be done so be it
who has gained more renoun/infamy over the past month? How about past year?
According to this site total renown on Gladden exceeds total infamy by 20%. For the past few weeks renown and infamy gains have been within 2% of a 1:1 ratio...
Edro gûr lín /Mirdautas vras – Narnulublat... shum Sertsac’s Second Law of PvMP Dynamics: Inequity Increases
« N’attribuez jamais à la malveillance ce qui s’explique très bien par l’incompétence. »
I think we all know there are more ranked freeps because, at one time, PvP was skewed heavily to freep favor in both numbers and being op'd. Most of those freeps stopped being freeps when creeps got buffed and numbers began to skew. So I ask you the same question, who has gained more renoun/infamy over the past month? How about past year?
In the current calendar year, creeps have earned 88 million infamy, while freeps have earned 107 million infamy.
To be honest, last night the freep raid chased the creep raid across the map looking ofr an open fight. We were all over at the old Lugz hotspot looking for you when you ninja'd the TR. We mapped back to GV to fight.
Freeps, according to people in your raid, had the chance at an open field fight, (at a time where you would have had a number advantage, actually) and they choose to take an OP to avoid fighting in the open.
Antilles, Hunter Rank 7 Pre-Book 12
Cuomo, Gladden's First 5 Star War Leader
Celchu, Antagonist, Anthraxx
It does only take 1 person to initiate though. The freeps finally did it, bu wasted a lot of time in the progress. I don't know what happened before, as I logged in while the freeps were chasing the creeps from TR to Lug to TR.
I am not saying it's the creeps job to make content for the freeps, or vise-versa, however if both sides push a bit more (even if it's a wipe), we all have more fun. I think leaders of both sides (perhaps maybe one on each side) are pretty good about not wiping the floor with the other side so badly that they log. If the fighting is constant, everyone wins.
Yes, freeps finally did something, it's about damn time. All creeps do is push, yes this is refering to the creep raids during prime time not nub groups throughout the day. We push keep practically every night, this is simply because of the numbers. When it cones to even numbers we find ourselves pushing again and again - this is the frusturating part, freeps only push when they have the advantage, when they feel there is minimal risk, even the npcs are near by.
Freeps, according to people in your raid, had the chance at an open field fight, (at a time where you would have had a number advantage, actually) and they choose to take an OP to avoid fighting in the open.
I must not have been there for that, I came to the scene just before the TR fight. We rode3 from GV to TR, sat at TR for 5 minutes waiting to see if the creeps would come up, then rode to GTA and up towards Lug when we got the call that TR was being ninja'd.
I am complaining about the fact we did more PvE in 45 minutes than we did PvP. I would think the creeps would have the same complaint.
To be honest, last night the freep raid chased the creep raid across the map looking ofr an open fight. We were all over at the old Lugz hotspot looking for you when you ninja'd the TR. We mapped back to GV to fight. Freeps do run to NPCs at times. So do creeps, it's a matter of evening out skewed numbers. Can you honestly say you've never back up to a rez, or Grams, or TA, or OC when the freeps were wiping you?
So you think a fight at the GTA or EC Xrds is unfair because it's (almost) equally distant from TR/Lug rez? That gives freeps a zerg advantage? Freeps run back from the rez becuase we don't have the rez power creeps do, and most often, it ends in more infamy for creeps as freeps stagger into the fight.
Let me explain, this is complicated. The 8 extra creeps outside of the raid ARE significant, go figure. They add to net DPS and they distribute the damage taken. Are one ore two people outside the raid effective, yes to an extent, bu they are often a speed bump. Are 8 people outside the raid effective, yes. That an extra 33% damage and 33% mitigation. The freeps don't know who is or isn't in raid, so every seconds wasyed on dpsing a non-raid creep down is time the creep raid is beating on the freeps and getting healed up. You really think having 33% more numbers is not effective because they aren't in raid?
I think we all know there are more ranked freeps because, at one time, PvP was skewed heavily to freep favor in both numbers and being op'd. Most of those freeps stopped being freeps when creeps got buffed and numbers began to skew. So I ask you the same question, who has gained more renoun/infamy over the past month? How about past year?
Sorry, cant break down quote for quote - writing of phone;
1. I am complaining about the fact that in the last 2 weeks I have done more standing and waiting for freeps to leave a keep than I have in the last 2yrs of play.
2.90% of the time we don’t because freeps tend to go back to their keep even after they wipe us in it – we then end up pushing back for more because we are too bored sitting there doing dick all
3.Reread my post – look at he location I was referring to
4.those 8 outside raid are really ineffective because if they are picking ppl off they are technically doing it solo and not focusing on one target because they are solo – there is no coordination. This applies even if they are fighting alongside the creep raid they are not focusing and can be wiped easily because they will get no heals. Its very straight forward, you can tell that a creep is not in raid just like you can for a freep – there are no buffs of any sort.
5.Creeps have gained more in the last little while and this is only because freeps refuse to fight back and get kills, theyre too busy running from creeps and get slaughtered. Weather it was or wasn’t skewed, back in the day freeps fought, I know this because I was always there pushing and ganking. How many freeps can you say push and gank now? **** hit the fan back when Ooty started leading, his inability to understand certain aspects of the game flawed his ability to lead anything – he just provided creeps with easy infamy and was not worried about having a agood raid composition, instead he invited ppl who came first not the vets or experienced players. This is exactly why I got tired of freepside, I couldn’t deal with the stupid BS where I had to wait 30-60 min to get in a raid, where I sat on the side and watched them wipe because there was no discipline or leadership (this had nothing to do with op/losing/winning – plain stupidity)
I have yet to see any creep other than node speak out against the dot raids that glee makes. Don't see no creep complaining when there are 20 dots on a single freep target in the open but when they have to push on the second landing then all heck breaks loose. So if glee doesn't wanna change his style of stacking nothing but dots, then don't expect freeps to change thiers. Again stop blaming freeps for all that's wrong in the moors because creeps need to step up and change as well, if creeps aren't willing to change their ways, then why should we?
I promise to never put a dot on you if you never blow your horn in my presence, or better yet, if you never use any AOE skills.
Actually, if I'm in a raid with Naz calling targets, I can't hinder fast enough, much less have time to dot...
Last edited by Sertsac; Jul 15 2010 at 12:02 PM.
Edro gûr lín /Mirdautas vras – Narnulublat... shum Sertsac’s Second Law of PvMP Dynamics: Inequity Increases
« N’attribuez jamais à la malveillance ce qui s’explique très bien par l’incompétence. »
In the current calendar year, creeps have earned 88 million infamy, while freeps have earned 107 million infamy.
Seems like that covers all of 2009 and 2010 and only R3+, but regardless, I was wrong. It doesn't feel like the freeps get more renoun than creeps get infamy lately, but the numbers don't lie.
I was in the creep raid last night so I'll toss out my perspective of the fight last night.
- Creeps farmed TR rez forever. Very lame on both sides. (IMO both sides should have moved that fight.)
- Fight finally moves away from TR res and we get a TR hotspot fight. Numbers seem fairly even. SWEET! Freeps win easily. (Lots of freeps in heavy armor, lots of burgs, and good healing.) Nice fight. Win some lose some. We'll be back!
- In order to counter the heavy armor/burg freep raid the creeps switch to a heavy DOT raid. The idea is that hopefully we can stack a bunch of DOTs and switch targets fast enough to get ahead of the freep healing and actually kill the heavies. DOTs are also a good way to fight burgs.
- I was afk about 15 mins, but when I come back the creep raid was getting ready to take TR. Im not sure what the reasoning was, but I get the idea that the creep raid felt like the freeps wouldnt come fight out in the open so we would take the keep. (Hopefully, someone who was actually there for those 15 mins can fill in the reasoning more acurately.)
- Creeps ninja the keep. Freeps camp 2nd floor landing. Its too bad we cant get more accurate information on how groups match up. The creeps felt like we had 2 reasonably matched forces, and the freeps felt way outnumbered. 2nd floor landing fights are suicide for creeps so we waited for the freeps to fight upstairs. The reason we didnt fight you on the top landing is that anytime we engaged you, all the freeps ran back down to the 2nd floor.
- Finally you come to flag room to try to finish taking the keep. No npcs to worry about for either side. Nice fight. Creeps won this time. Win some lose some. No big deal. Fight goes on?
Apparently not...
I think both sides actually enjoy a good fight, win or lose, if they feel like they were able to put up a good fight and get a respectable number of kills. Unfortunately both sides spend WAY to much time sitting around not fighting because they feel like the other side doesnt play "fair"
Its not rocket science people...
- If you both have a decent number of people, Try an open field fight
- If both side get a good number of kills then do it again
- If one side completely rolls the other side then move the fight somewhere so the losing side has an advantage.
- The side that rolled them should PUSH. If you wipe, no big deal. You just wiped them 5 minutes ago.
- Back to the open field this time...
PS: RULE #1 - multiboxing is really bad for PVMP (freeps or creeps). PVMP will not survive in its current form if multiboxing is allowed. If a multiboxer is out let the other side brutally pound them into the ground all night.
Seems like that covers all of 2009 and 2010 and only R3+, but regardless, I was wrong. It doesn't feel like the freeps get more renoun than creeps get infamy lately, but the numbers don't lie.
Indeed, I wish it covered all ranks, but the ratio is fairly consistent when you look at R3+, R5+, R7+, or R9+, so I think that is good evidence it would hold true if all ranks were listed there too.
I am not saying it's the creeps job to make content for the freeps, or vise-versa, however if both sides push a bit more (even if it's a wipe), we all have more fun. I think leaders of both sides (perhaps maybe one on each side) are pretty good about not wiping the floor with the other side so badly that they log. If the fighting is constant, everyone wins.
I see you are in OTG, were you on Sunday night? Every time you pushed and wiped, I tried to make sure creeps pushed back, until we wiped. The night had it's own issues that were entirely beyond control of the creep raid, or your raid, so it wasn't as fun as it could have been, but creeps were trying to get what you are talking about going. If you don't believe me, you can ask Redd, who I talked with about it later.
Antilles, Hunter Rank 7 Pre-Book 12
Cuomo, Gladden's First 5 Star War Leader
Celchu, Antagonist, Anthraxx
Sorry, cant break down quote for quote - writing of phone;
1. I am complaining about the fact that in the last 2 weeks I have done more standing and waiting for freeps to leave a keep than I have in the last 2yrs of play.
2.90% of the time we don’t because freeps tend to go back to their keep even after they wipe us in it – we then end up pushing back for more because we are too bored sitting there doing dick all
3.Reread my post – look at he location I was referring to
4.those 8 outside raid are really ineffective because if they are picking ppl off they are technically doing it solo and not focusing on one target because they are solo – there is no coordination. This applies even if they are fighting alongside the creep raid they are not focusing and can be wiped easily because they will get no heals. Its very straight forward, you can tell that a creep is not in raid just like you can for a freep – there are no buffs of any sort.
5.Creeps have gained more in the last little while and this is only because freeps refuse to fight back and get kills, theyre too busy running from creeps and get slaughtered. Weather it was or wasn’t skewed, back in the day freeps fought, I know this because I was always there pushing and ganking. How many freeps can you say push and gank now? **** hit the fan back when Ooty started leading, his inability to understand certain aspects of the game flawed his ability to lead anything – he just provided creeps with easy infamy and was not worried about having a agood raid composition, instead he invited ppl who came first not the vets or experienced players. This is exactly why I got tired of freepside, I couldn’t deal with the stupid BS where I had to wait 30-60 min to get in a raid, where I sat on the side and watched them wipe because there was no discipline or leadership (this had nothing to do with op/losing/winning – plain stupidity)
Leadership is a problem on the freep side, but I am not sure it's always the leader's fault. There are lots of players that don't listen, are inexperienced, are traited for PvE, are AFK/LD/Stealthed. The leaders don't kick them, they don't recruit vets, and they don't make them work together, but if they did, we'd have a hard time filling a raid. Perhaps we are better off that way, with a smaller group of people that function as a unit.
I have been really enjoying Sunday night PvP. Our kin fielded a raid and a half last week, and with Redd, Ark, Merridan, and I leading groups, we pushed TA over and over. We wiped. We got some kills. In the end, we kept pushing because that's what the raid wanted to do: fight.
There is no reason why raids on either side can't do that. If a leader wants to sit in a keep, they majority that want to fight can speak up. Dying doesn't bother me, and I bet it doesn't bother most other players. Why waste our playtime sitting around?
Maybe we need a vet (from either side) to step up and get some serious freep raids going.
Originally Posted by ncc1295
I see you are in OTG, were you on Sunday night? Every time you pushed and wiped, I tried to make sure creeps pushed back, until we wiped. The night had it's own issues that were entirely beyond control of the creep raid, or your raid, so it wasn't as fun as it could have been, but creeps were trying to get what you are talking about going. If you don't believe me, you can ask Redd, who I talked with about it later.
Funny you posted this while I was posting about the same thing. I am the Raid Officer for OTG, and by popular demand and some support from some OTG PvPers from both sides, setup the Sunday night fights. The outside factors, that I was dealing with till I left and then Redd had to deal with, sucked but it was unavoidable I guess. We need to find a better way to effectively run two raids as one unit, but we'll get there with practice I hope. Sunday nights should continue to be a crash-the-server pvp night
Seems like that covers all of 2009 and 2010 and only R3+, but regardless, I was wrong. It doesn't feel like the freeps get more renoun than creeps get infamy lately, but the numbers don't lie.
I'm not sure that those numbers really mean much. Yes it's a broad look at the gain in 2010 but it doesnt take in account how renown and infamy is spread nor point ratio per kill. And interesting number gather to me would be to see which side has the overall most rating. This is a huge catalyst to gain for either side. I would deduce that (based on the fact that it's obvious creeps have more numbers most nights) freep gain would lend to creeps having more higher rated creeps than the freeps because of incessant farming and zerging. As one sided as it may sound, I'd rather see someone research that than a generalised number.
Too much time got wasted on the landing. Freeps got wasted while we sat there (well at least I had a few frosty beverages). We got wiped, and 50% of the people either rage quit or drunk quit.
I'm not sure that those numbers really mean much. Yes it's a broad look at the gain in 2010 but it doesnt take in account how renown and infamy is spread nor point ratio per kill. And interesting number gather to me would be to see which side has the overall most rating. This is a huge catalyst to gain for either side. I would deduce that (based on the fact that it's obvious creeps have more numbers most nights) freep gain would lend to creeps having more higher rated creeps than the freeps because of incessant farming and zerging. As one sided as it may sound, I'd rather see someone research that than a generalised number.
I use my rating to determine how well we are doing on a given night. Quite often we'll have a big fight, the freeps will wipe, but my rating will actually go up because of the number of rez kills. It's a good barometer of how even things are.
I use my rating to determine how well we are doing on a given night. Quite often we'll have a big fight, the freeps will wipe, but my rating will actually go up because of the number of rez kills. It's a good barometer of how even things are.
That's not what refering too. That happens to me on occasion too. It would be a good source of evidence concluding creeps having higher rated toons, though. If your rating is going up while you are wiping, the kills you are getting are on toons rater higher than you. Regardless, I suppose it's moot to be curious about it unless someone wants to devote unbias time to researching it.
I'm not sure that those numbers really mean much. Yes it's a broad look at the gain in 2010 but it doesnt take in account how renown and infamy is spread nor point ratio per kill. And interesting number gather to me would be to see which side has the overall most rating. This is a huge catalyst to gain for either side. I would deduce that (based on the fact that it's obvious creeps have more numbers most nights) freep gain would lend to creeps having more higher rated creeps than the freeps because of incessant farming and zerging. As one sided as it may sound, I'd rather see someone research that than a generalised number.
How is that a generalized number? Freeps earn more renown than infamy. The average freep earns more than the average creep. Rating is related to renown, so I am not sure why you think that creeps have higher ratings.
Originally Posted by Leksi
That's not what refering too. That happens to me on occasion too. It would be a good source of evidence concluding creeps having higher rated toons, though. If your rating is going up while you are wiping, the kills you are getting are on toons rater higher than you. Regardless, I suppose it's moot to be curious about it unless someone wants to devote unbias time to researching it.
A quick glance at LotRO PvMP leaderboards shows freeps with 139 players with 2 stars or better, compared to 72 Creeps with 2 stars or better. 699 Freeps have 1 star or better, while 399 Creeps have one star or better. How is it you think freeps are earning more but have lower rating?
Edit: The quick way to tell, is knowing there are 25 players listed per page, scroll down till you hit whatever rating, then do the math. Those are updated constantly, so my numbers may be slightly off soon, but the general idea of freeps being higher rated is pretty static.
Last edited by ncc1295; Jul 15 2010 at 12:37 PM.
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How is that a generalized number? Freeps earn more renown than infamy. The average freep earns more than the average creep. Rating is related to renown, so I am not sure why you think that creeps have higher ratings.
It's generalised because you can easily glance at the numbers and say this or that based on it without taking into account how the numbers come into being. I'm not arguing your point of freeps making more. My question to you, and to anyone at that matter, is whether or not the possibility of creeps having a higher rating plays a role in the renown gain. The average freep makes more renown because they aren't splitting it with 20-30 other freeps. My curious notion is two part in how does rating effect these charted numbers on the sites as well as how does the DR of the point system (which seems to change each content release)?
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Originally Posted by idontcare789
What kind of fool comes to the battlefield to sing rather than fight? A dead fool.
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