Thread: Ettenmoors Community Blog: Wednesday, 7/14/10

Originally Posted by Thane9

1> Be careful. It's bordering on offensive when you say things like "...played a better game then the mostly do now". I know if I made a comment about creeps like this many people would jump all over me about being offensive.

2> To your point. Creeps have ALWAYS had less to lose by dying than freeps. It's a mindset that I always considered I share with a lot of creepside players. I do not think it's necessarily a bad thing to have a reduced value of death in the moors. If anything MY biggest concern is when freeps and creeps are too afraid of dying.

Oh and btw...I go through more money/time costs in consumables than I ever did in repair bills.

---

I hope you can consider my point without it being advesarial. In the end I think we both want the same thing, and that is to have a fun PvMP game to play. And I certainly indend no malice or negative bent on anything I've said.

#1 - Thanks for pointing that out, and I'll be careful about it in the future.

#2. - Personally I love that Creeps do not have armor or weapon slots. It keeps out the competition for uber gear to fill those slots and gives player more time to concentrate on game play. We all consider how we would make a game of our own if we could, mine would absolutely have a character window like the Creeps...no slots.

I agree with you about consumable expense, when I craft in a game I'll choose a consumable profession.

finally

/salute

Originally Posted by Thane9

BAs are best off leeching...old school sit in the middle of the pack ungrouped. Unless they want rating in addition to renown...in which case one could argue for raiding up.

Grrrrr!

Please do not include me in this bundle.

If I run solo or in a group I am not even looking at the numbers flying, I am more absorbed in the fight itself and staying alive. I dont like to die!

No matter how you view this unless you are in a one on one you will be leeching.

Originally Posted by PF-Grumpy

To repsond to your renown issue Luc. I agree that 110 renown should be divided 24 ways if a raid kills 1 target, while the soloer should get all 110 renown. That system is broken. However. even when we ~were~ getting 1 renown per raid kill in the moors, people did a lot of large scale fighting though.

I agree. The system is broken. The "fix" they put in place due to leeching was not a good one. And now it's going to be near impossible to "undo" that problem.

As for large scale fighting in the past.

Absolutely, it happened, it happened alot.

But a few things to note.

1> It wasn't the accepted norm. For example, the MASSIVE surge in /ooc invite to raid, where's the raid, why isn't a raid open, who's leading the raid.

2> Raids existed primarily for raid level goals. In a sense, a raid existed for the sake of taking keeps, or defending a keep, and sometimes open field fights would occur. But for the most part there wasn't a static "zergball" that would sit fixed at EC for long periods of time.

3> BEYOND the raids, there were other groups/solos doing things around the map. This is the CRITICAL issue IMHO. There WERE raids. But it wasn't 95% of the total population raiding/near the raid in ONE location on the map. It was 60-70%, or even less. And sometimes there were no real "raids" as we envision them now. And the others were other groups/raids/soloers doing other things around the map and engaging each other. IMHO there was far MORE risk being small because you could run into larger groups a lot more often via happenstance, but there was FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR MORE opportunities for good fights too. And therein lies the difference with respect to today where literally 95+% of BOTH sides can be regularly found within a 150m square.

----

I know people who try HARD to move around the map and keep things fun. I salute them. BIGTIME. It's lower rewards. It's frustrating at times. And it's hard to keep people interested in continuing when things are going bad.

So I DO KNOW that I'm speaking in generalizations here...please understand that.

But I think it'd be nearly impossible to not recognize that there was a HUGE shift of gameplay back in B12, one that we've still never fully recovered from. In fact, the player base that remembers a different time is likely at an all time low. So maybe some of it is just people don't even know anything else.

Originally Posted by mudd_666

I like how creeps feel sad for themselves when they have no maps and have to run everywhere.

awww, you poor babies. It's a lot more fun to play with a giant unfair advantage the rest of the time isn't it?

Who's feeling sorry for themselves?

I told a story about the night, I didn't post a whine. I'm sure it's hard to distinguish that since nobody seems to do anything but whine or kiss their own/friend's asses anymore but this was what an actual blog looks like. A story of one's experience through a night of PvP. The idea is that it's responded to by other personal experiences of the night.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

I see plenty of "good fighting" and "thanks to both sides" in so many threads. Too bad it's missed so often because of negativity or the forum bosses giving pats on the back to themselves

My entire blog was a "good fighting" and "thanks to both sides" but it's too bad it's missed so often because socially charged egos like to posture someone's forum count as a direct relation to their life and social status instead of just reading what they have to say and either participating in the conversation or just moving on. Hell, I even posted an all-in-good-fun video and the response is to keep tossing out weak insults like "forum boss"? What the hell does that even mean?

Originally Posted by Sujae

Grrrrr!

Please do not include me in this bundle.

If I run solo or in a group I am not even looking at the numbers flying, I am more absorbed in the fight itself and staying alive. I dont like to die!

No matter how you view this unless you are in a one on one you will be leeching.

I'm not sure I fully understand your position.

I was just stating how a lot of classes post those 10k+ days. And how certain classes CAN optimize renown/infamy income.

Of course the one thing I didn't note that is EXTREMELY important is time= renown/infamy. So if one person plays 20 hours a day chances are they're going to post a big number.

But My comments were really just giving my opinion on how certain classes can currently really rack up some big rewards.

Of course we all SHOULD care about the fights more than the points. But lets face it, there are people who don't. And to some degree we all have made decisions from time to time to achieve some goal or another.

Heh, I've dropped group on occasion to have a 1v1 when I know no one in my group is around. I'm not purely altrusitic. Nor would I ever claim to be.

But I also know for a fact that I've sacrificed WELL into 6 figures of renown for fighting solo when in a group with no one in my group even in the zone with me. So yeah...it goes both ways I suppose.

It does get pretty boring.

Group Member A: Wanna ride around the map? Stab/EC is boring.
Group Member B: Why this is where the creeps are?
Group Member C: Seriously we have circled it twice
Group Member A: Cmon, lets go gank someone questing
Group Members B and C in unison: Sigh.. okay lets go

*riding around for 20 minutes*

Group Member A: Wanna go back to Stab/EC?

Originally Posted by romoen

My entire blog was a "good fighting" and "thanks to both sides" but it's too bad it's missed so often because socially charged egos like to posture someone's forum count as a direct relation to their life and social status instead of just reading what they have to say and either participating in the conversation or just moving on. Hell, I even posted an all-in-good-fun video and the response is to keep tossing out weak insults like "forum boss"? What the hell does that even mean?

I think Jaiyne was responding to Dinnerplate's comments, no?


I thought your blog was well written and I liked reading it.

Originally Posted by PF-Grumpy

It does get pretty boring.

Group Member A: Wanna ride around the map? Stab/EC is boring.
Group Member B: Why this is where the creeps are?
Group Member C: Seriously we have circled it twice
Group Member A: Cmon, lets go gank someone questing
Group Members B and C in unison: Sigh.. okay lets go

*riding around for 20 minutes*

Group Member A: Wanna go back to Stab/EC?

AND as much as there's the boredom factor, I'm still a believer that raiding/zerging/pooling in one location exacerbates any existing population issue more than it helps it.

I could give my whole standard breakdown again, but suffice it to say I haven't seen anything that leads me to doubt my position.

I honestly believe if there were proper incentives for moving around the map, and for being in different groups/locations, that any population imbalance would have it's affects mitigated greatly on the overall playerbase, and overall frustrations would be lower.

Originally Posted by romoen

Anyway, here's a short video I put together from some clips I got of the Reaver group. Sorry it wasn't more; I suck at Reaver so far so I was often too distracted trying to fix my "you must face your target" issues to remember to start recording. That and I'm just not content with anything with my UI on anymore and I don't have this class' UI memorized yet, lol.

Sinnerman is on my soloing playlist...hehe...I hear that song in the moors at least once a night.

I roam the map alone, and I raid (or 1/4 raid) during prime time. I suck at one on ones but that doesnt keep me from chasing people all over the map.

You make a good time where you can with the tools you have.

Bast

Rammstein and Ministry are my soloing music. They give me a fierce.

Originally Posted by Thane9

AND as much as there's the boredom factor, I'm still a believer that raiding/zerging/pooling in one location exacerbates any existing population issue more than it helps it.

I could give my whole standard breakdown again, but suffice it to say I haven't seen anything that leads me to doubt my position.

I honestly believe if there were proper incentives for moving around the map, and for being in different groups/locations, that any population imbalance would have it's affects mitigated greatly on the overall playerbase, and overall frustrations would be lower.

I agree 100% with all of the points. However, I lose interest in the moors quickly when there is a lack of something to attack and tend to resort to things like "pirating" keeps (I'm sure that screen is around somewhere)

What if, as part of some PvMP refit, Creeps Orcs could use Warg mounts, with speeds equal to Freep mounts?

Accordingly, Wargs would need to either suck-it-up and not have mounts, or have some kind of tweak to allow for keeping-up with mounted Creeps.

Would having an expanded PvMP zone, with Warg mounts, be enough for Creeps to feel OK with giving up their maps? Or at least some of the maps?

Originally Posted by Comstrike

What if, as part of some PvMP refit, Creeps Orcs could use Warg mounts, with speeds equal to Freep mounts?

Accordingly, Wargs would need to either suck-it-up and not have mounts, or have some kind of tweak to allow for keeping-up with mounted Creeps.

Would having an expanded PvMP zone, with Warg mounts, be enough for Creeps to feel OK with giving up their maps? Or at least some of the maps?

I thought you said PvP didn't warrant any dev time?



((I'm sorry, I'm teasing you. I can't help it. It's like asking if Trit can joine the _______________*insert anything other than Cpt* Raid. it's just too easy.))

I like being spanked by Freeps...that is all I had really.

Gutlard Out!

Originally Posted by Comstrike

What if, as part of some PvMP refit, Creeps Orcs could use Warg mounts, with speeds equal to Freep mounts?

Accordingly, Wargs would need to either suck-it-up and not have mounts, or have some kind of tweak to allow for keeping-up with mounted Creeps.

Would having an expanded PvMP zone, with Warg mounts, be enough for Creeps to feel OK with giving up their maps? Or at least some of the maps?

Ohhhh the many discussions we have had about this.

Didnt has already picked Charrk, so I'd need a new partner, lol...plus I think the line would start in Grams for Creeps to pick up Charrk when Didnt would log off and to be inline for our other Wargs.

If we could have Warg mounts, I could agree to giving up my maps as long as I was able to have a 360 degree field of fire while mounted. Yep that would be very nice!

Originally Posted by PF-Grumpy

I thought you said PvP didn't warrant any dev time?



((I'm sorry, I'm teasing you. I can't help it. It's like asking if Trit can joine the _______________*insert anything other than Cpt* Raid. it's just too easy.))

I get it. I get things. When I'm on my meds, I have a sense of humor.

I think F2P is going to do good things for the game, in terms of dev time. And in such a model, I am certain PvMP is going to have to get some serious attention, as it is a logical tool to draw people into paying.

Indeed, I can see reasons why the LOTRO Store could find PvMP items in it too.

Of course, none of this matters until or unless they are able to fix performance issues with large numbers.

If we get a steady diet of new zones and content on the PvE, I'm OK with seeing some time finally spent on PvMP.

Originally Posted by Meijha

Rammstein and Ministry are my soloing music. They give me a fierce.

A couple sets of my favorite Ministry lyrics:

"Stronger than reason
Stronger than lies
The only truth I know...
Is the look in your eyes!"

"So what? It's your problem to learn to live with
Destroy us or make us saints
We don't care it's not our fault that we were born too late
A screaming headache on the brow of the state
Killing time is appropriate
To make a mess and f*** all the rest
We say...We say...
So what?"

Originally Posted by overtone

a Couple Sets Of My Favorite Ministry Lyrics:

"stronger Than Reason
stronger Than Lies
the Only Truth I Know...
is The Look In Your Eyes!"

"so What? It's Your Problem To Learn To Live With
destroy Us Or Make Us Saints
we Don't Care It's Not Our Fault That We Were Born Too Late
a Screaming Headache On The Brow Of The State
killing Time Is Appropriate
to Make A Mess And F*** All The Rest
we Say...we Say...
so What?"

<3 ! Rawr!

Edit to add - I had suggested awhile ago that Creeps lose maps but get mount speed that is dropped in combat. No one seemed to like that though :\

Originally Posted by Thane9

AND as much as there's the boredom factor, I'm still a believer that raiding/zerging/pooling in one location exacerbates any existing population issue more than it helps it.

I could give my whole standard breakdown again, but suffice it to say I haven't seen anything that leads me to doubt my position.

I honestly believe if there were proper incentives for moving around the map, and for being in different groups/locations, that any population imbalance would have it's affects mitigated greatly on the overall playerbase, and overall frustrations would be lower.

I believe where people are fighting has little to nothing to do with the frustrations. The game reached and passed its peak. Everyone has been there and done that. There is no new content or objectives...well I take that back there are newer pve objectives in a pvp zone. I can't even remember the last time I said, "Hey, that's new I have never seen someone try that before."

In today's mmo market this game has surpassed its normal shelf life of about two years. Look at any game other than WoW and it's peak is always before the two year mark.

People are frustrated with the game in the same manner I have seen twice now with games I have seen fade out that I played from launch. They didn't go away, but they did dim the lights. Many people are holding on to the idea of a game that just does not exists anymore. For that reason more than any other people lash out and look for every little thing wrong with everyone around them.

There is still fun to be had once in awhile, but it's gone and when people actually start realizing it they will either keep playing for something to do, or they will find something else to entertain them. Either choice will allow them to play without such negativity, and just play the game for what it is.

My advice is to play something different, not play anything at all or just let it go. A lot of stubborn people (including myself) aren't gonna let it got any time soon so the best choice is to find something different.

Originally Posted by Thieron

There is still fun to be had once in awhile, but it's gone and when people actually start realizing it they will either keep playing for something to do, or they will find something else to entertain them. Either choice will allow them to play without such negativity, and just play the game for what it is.

My advice is to play something different, not play anything at all or just let it go. A lot of stubborn people (including myself) aren't gonna let it got any time soon so the best choice is to find something different.

/agree. All of it. Good advice.

Now, this is the story all about how
My life got flipped-turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute
Just sit right there
I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air

In west Philadelphia born and raised
On the playground was where I spent most of my days
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool
And all shootin some b-ball outside of school
When a couple of guys
Who were up to no good
Startin making trouble in my neighborhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
She said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air'

I begged and pleaded with her day after day
But she packed my suite case and sent me on my way
She gave me a kiss and then she gave me my ticket.
I put my walkman on and said, 'I might as well kick it'.

First class, yo this is bad
Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass.
Is this what the people of Bel-Air living like?
Hmmmmm this might be alright.

But wait, I hear the prissy, booze, whine, all that
Is this the type of place that they should send this cool cat?
I don't think so
I'll see when I get there
I hope they're prepared for the prince of Bel-Air

Well uh, the plane landed and when I came out
There was a dude who looked like a cop standing there with my name out
I ain't trying to get arrested yet.
I just got here!
I sprang with the quickness, like lightening disappeared

I whistled for a cab and when it came near
The license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror
If anything I can say is that this cab was rare
But I thought 'Man forget it' - 'Yo home to Bel Air'

I pulled up to the house about seven or eight
And I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo homes smell ya later'
I looked to my kingdom
I was finally there
To sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air

Originally Posted by evenflow66

text

Well said.

Originally Posted by evenflow66

Now, this is the story all about how
My life got flipped-turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute
Just sit right there
I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air

In west Philadelphia born and raised
On the playground was where I spent most of my days
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool
And all shootin some b-ball outside of school
When a couple of guys
Who were up to no good
Startin making trouble in my neighborhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
She said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air'

I begged and pleaded with her day after day
But she packed my suite case and sent me on my way
She gave me a kiss and then she gave me my ticket.
I put my walkman on and said, 'I might as well kick it'.

First class, yo this is bad
Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass.
Is this what the people of Bel-Air living like?
Hmmmmm this might be alright.

But wait, I hear the prissy, booze, whine, all that
Is this the type of place that they should send this cool cat?
I don't think so
I'll see when I get there
I hope they're prepared for the prince of Bel-Air

Well uh, the plane landed and when I came out
There was a dude who looked like a cop standing there with my name out
I ain't trying to get arrested yet.
I just got here!
I sprang with the quickness, like lightening disappeared

I whistled for a cab and when it came near
The license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror
If anything I can say is that this cab was rare
But I thought 'Man forget it' - 'Yo home to Bel Air'

I pulled up to the house about seven or eight
And I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo homes smell ya later'
I looked to my kingdom
I was finally there
To sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air

Ima have to hurt you for that.....

Originally Posted by Meijha

Rammstein and Ministry are my soloing music. They give me a fierce.

Brad Paisley and Johnny Cash allow me to reach my fullest soloing potential.
I am unstoppable when Folsom Prison Blues is rockin my speakers.

Originally Posted by Thieron

I believe where people are fighting has little to nothing to do with the frustrations. The game reached and passed its peak. Everyone has been there and done that. There is no new content or objectives...well I take that back there are newer pve objectives in a pvp zone. I can't even remember the last time I said, "Hey, that's new I have never seen someone try that before."

I'm less frustrated when there are solo's to fight.

I believe small groups are less frustrated when 30 aren't showing up nearly instantly to obliterate them wherever they go.

Many, all?, players are less frustrated when they can find an opponent that doesn't outnumber them in such a way that they feel unable to win.

My comment was specifically suggesting that by having players, solo, grouped, raids, etc ALL over the map, and moving around the map for multiple incentives and motivations that in addition to getting crushed from time to time there would be FAR more opportunity for "fun fights".

And with that increased opportunity there would be reduced frustrations.

Even when the total creep number was significantly higher or lower than that of the freeps.

---

However, when 95+% of ALL freeps and ALL creeps are fighting in one location, no matter where that location is...any large discrepency in population becomes instantly apparent and renders the smaller force completely useless, and therefore frustrated.

Which in turn leads to trash talking, and ill will, and then negative behaviours when THEY have the upperhand becuase then they feel justified in being jerks becuase of how they felt treated.

IMHO if the Ettenmoors had MORE things to do around the map that rewarded players to NOT be in one spot...no matter WHERE that spot is...it would be a good thing.

Heck it could be as simple as itemizing the OPs better to encourage people solo/small group to farm them.

It could be as complicated as real time buffs for physically holding a location on the map. Not a toggle like a keep, but having physical bodies inside a location that could be defended, more like hotspots.

ANYTHING to get people moving around the map and not all together.

This isn't trying to get rid of big fights. This is trying to IMPROVE gameplay. If the gameplay is good more people will play and the big fights will get bigger just as a matter of scale.

Wouldn't it be great to be able to have big zerg on zerg clashes and STILL have other things and smaller skirmishes going on all over the map?

This is why I can't understand why people have such a problem with my assertion that balling up is bad for the game. I'm not against the big fights. I'm against not having dynamic and varied gameplay which is more fun for more players which would attract MORE players.

Originally Posted by Thane9

I'm less frustrated when there are solo's to fight.

I believe small groups are less frustrated when 30 aren't showing up nearly instantly to obliterate them wherever they go.

Many, all?, players are less frustrated when they can find an opponent that doesn't outnumber them in such a way that they feel unable to win.

My comment was specifically suggesting that by having players, solo, grouped, raids, etc ALL over the map, and moving around the map for multiple incentives and motivations that in addition to getting crushed from time to time there would be FAR more opportunity for "fun fights".

Not to mention how frustrating it is for large forces to continually show up to locations hoping for an evenly matched fight and instead have it last about 45 seconds because their opponnents just don't have the numbers to sustain anything. I think often times that category of people is overlooked as pleased with their overwhelming odds or like they enjoy those fights more than even ones and it's only the small groups and soloers that suffer; when that simply isn't the case.

But you're abosolutely right about the shortage of insentives. Right now the only insentive to wander is hopes of finding anoher group/person wandering. So if you already know where a fight is, it's hard to feel any desire to wander around trying to find another fight and missing out the action of the one you know already exists.

Those that keep at it and keep wandering are those that are addicted to the feeling of that perfect fight and willing to put up with no fights and bad fights to find it. Mad props to those people, but at the same time if you know what you're getting into, I wish they'd complain less when they don't get what they want.

Hot spots were small group/soloer insentives and gave people a reason to wander beyond the "hope" that they'll find something. Taking those out was more detremental to our PvP than I think they could have ever possibly imagined.

Originally Posted by romoen

Not to mention how frustrating it is for large forces to continually show up to locations hoping for an evenly matched fight and instead have it last about 45 seconds because their opponnents just don't have the numbers to sustain anything. I think often times that category of people is overlooked as pleased with their overwhelming odds or like they enjoy those fights more than even ones and it's only the small groups and soloers that suffer; when that simply isn't the case.

But you're abosolutely right about the shortage of insentives. Right now the only insentive to wander is hopes of finding anoher group/person wandering. So if you already know where a fight is, it's hard to feel any desire to wander around trying to find another fight and missing out the action of the one you know already exists.

Those that keep at it and keep wandering are those that are addicted to the feeling of that perfect fight and willing to put up with no fights and bad fights to find it. Mad props to those people, but at the same time if you know what you're getting into, I wish they'd complain less when they don't get what they want.

Hot spots were small group/soloer insentives and gave people a reason to wander beyond the "hope" that they'll find something. Taking those out was more detremental to our PvP than I think they could have ever possibly imagined.

I agree.

I still hang on to the idea that an overwhelming force has more of an opportunity to split up than an underdog does to somehow create more players. But in general does it really even matter?

The root problem is the lack of diversity of playstyles. If EVERYONE solo'd it'd be just as bad. Just in a different way.

IMHO these types of incentives could potentially be as simple as re-itemizing loot drops, and quest rewards, and resource nodes.

Obviously more complex systems would be welcomed...but even the basics could REALLY impact gameplay in a really substantial way.

IMHO anyhow.

Originally Posted by Thane9

resource nodes.

It'd be interesting to see them upgraded to Supreme level nodes.

Originally Posted by Baslin

It'd be interesting to see them upgraded to Supreme level nodes.

the problem is not the nodes it is the crafters. They don't know the market. You can make a lot more money selling AI than you can KI. Now if they filled the moors with Khazad Copper... fuhhgeddaboudit!

Originally Posted by PF-Grumpy

the problem is not the nodes it is the crafters. They don't know the market. You can make a lot more money selling AI than you can KI. Now if they filled the moors with Khazad Copper... fuhhgeddaboudit!

Haha, very true.

Originally Posted by PF-Grumpy

the problem is not the nodes it is the crafters. They don't know the market. You can make a lot more money selling AI than you can KI. Now if they filled the moors with Khazad Copper... fuhhgeddaboudit!

Truth. I say make them copper/tin rather than iron/gold. There's already duplicate areas with iron/gold. Throw a bone to the moors and drive some freeps out there. OR at the very worst...give the freepside PvMP'ers some cash opportunities...

IMHO it's a win/win. The only people it could hurt are the professional miners.

Originally Posted by mudd_666

I like how creeps feel sad for themselves when they have no maps and have to run everywhere.

awww, you poor babies. It's a lot more fun to play with a giant unfair advantage the rest of the time isn't it?

Cried the pot to the kettle.

Just for reference. Lets say you have two normal raids, with level capped Freeps. They attack a Keep or whatever. Creeps engage. Out of noplace, a full raid or more of totally below cap and otherwise uber-n00bish types come roaring into the fight, and just split-up, seeking simply to distract, decoy, and otherwise give the Creeps too many targets to sort through efficiently.

Does that help anything Freep-side?

Originally Posted by Comstrike

Just for reference. Lets say you have two normal raids, with level capped Freeps. They attack a Keep or whatever. Creeps engage. Out of noplace, a full raid or more of totally below cap and otherwise uber-n00bish types come roaring into the fight, and just split-up, seeking simply to distract, decoy, and otherwise give the Creeps too many targets to sort through efficiently.

Does that help anything Freep-side?

The way you describe it...no. Not IMHO.

Originally Posted by Comstrike

Just for reference. Lets say you have two normal raids, with level capped Freeps. They attack a Keep or whatever. Creeps engage. Out of noplace, a full raid or more of totally below cap and otherwise uber-n00bish types come roaring into the fight, and just split-up, seeking simply to distract, decoy, and otherwise give the Creeps too many targets to sort through efficiently.

Does that help anything Freep-side?

If they cannot "sort through" targets efficiently, that's pretty sad. How hard is it to designate someone to choose targets and /assist? How EVER did we manage this back in the dark days when you even had to pay attention to your chat screen to know what was going on?

TAB. /assist. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by Thane9

The root problem is the lack of diversity of playstyles. If EVERYONE solo'd it'd be just as bad. Just in a different way.

I actually think it's the opposite of that.

The root of the problem seems to be that there are too many playstyle interests in too small of a fishbowl. So people like you who want to play a certain way are forced to play another way and that makes you miserable. Trying to force all these diverse playstyles to one activity was their greatest error and frankly I don't think it was until Moria when they made Creeps and Freeps more equal that it even became that much of an issue. Before that, there were less ways a person could play because Creeps just weren't strong overall but now that they're more equal, there are countless playstyles showing up, but still the same damn game.

There needs to be area in our PvP for other playstyles to have esomething to do other than just find one another. There needs to be objectives outside of PvP for an open pvp zone like this to work and right now those objectives are so few and far between and often times require such a narrow category of playstyles that everyone else is ****ed over.

Originally Posted by romoen

I actually think it's the opposite of that.

The root of the problem seems to be that there are too many playstyle interests in too small of a fishbowl. So people like you who want to play a certain way are forced to play another way and that makes you miserable. Trying to force all these diverse playstyles to one activity was their greatest error and frankly I don't think it was until Moria when they made Creeps and Freeps more equal that it even became that much of an issue. Before that, there were less ways a person could play because Creeps just weren't strong overall but now that they're more equal, there are countless playstyles showing up, but still the same damn game.

There needs to be area in our PvP for other playstyles to have esomething to do other than just find one another. There needs to be objectives outside of PvP for an open pvp zone like this to work and right now those objectives are so few and far between and often times require such a narrow category of playstyles that everyone else is ****ed over.

I'm forced to raid when there is LITERALLY no solo creeps on the map that will fight me without calling me out in ooc for hours at a time.

That's not "too many playstyles". That's ONE "zerg everything" playstyle.

/shrug

Originally Posted by Thane9

I'm forced to raid when there is LITERALLY no solo creeps on the map that will fight me without calling me out in ooc for hours at a time.

That's not "too many playstyles". That's ONE "zerg everything" playstyle.

/shrug

That's your playstyle being forced into one activity because there isn't enough for your playstyle to do otherwise. The varrying playstyles need more things to do than zerg which right now is nearly the only thing to do.

There are people out there that prefer to solo, but they can't find other soloers so they give up and go to where the fight is. But if there were objectives that would be interesting to soloers that they knew they could acquire, other soloers would run into you there by going for the same objective.

Nobody wants to wander the deasert hoping to find water with no guarantees, but if you know there's an oasis 10 miles in, you may go there instead of the corner market simply because of the sense of adventure.