Thread: Strategy for Archers in Grand Stairs

Thought this might help the lm who was in our group the other day.

Personally I don't like exploits and I would like to acknowledge the group for attempting "real" hard mode. Secondly, I last did this on my Lm before legendaries were even dreamed about, so my details may be a bit fuzzy

One Lm can handle both archers, I've done it so I know that is true. The way I did it as I recall was this. This is not the only way but the overall strat is good. Make adjustments to fit one's playstyle. Again my memory is hazy.

1) I traited to reduce the resistance to my blinding flash. Nowadays a Lm can get the Physical resistance legacy on a staff. This is a mandatory legacy for all staffs imo and gets much better resistance reductions.

2) I took my bear. I love my bear

3) Trait fast loader.

4) Bear on passive.

The object is to keep the archers close to the stairs. If they get too close to the main area, the Devoted will put a stun immunity on them when he randomly runs by them. If you keep them back by the stairs this is minimized. The archers' agro mechanic is wicked. If free, they run, and I mean run fast, directly to the center and once they get away to the center...well, they tear up the tanks with major ranged dps and the battle is pretty much lost.


Strat as follows:

As soon as they pop, it is staff strike for an immediate aoe stun. Blinding flash one and hit Call to Valour. Now the first one is handled.

The second will pop before Blinding Flash is available again. The bears Roaring Challenge will keep it in place as well as the bears Stun. Also, Test of Will has a nice stun as does Light of the Rising Dawn. Use Blinding Flash when it is available and the second is now handled.

Use Blinding Flash on the first after the 15 second cooldown is up.

The second archer will wake up before another Blinding Flash is available. We have an arsenal of mezs and stuns. Use whatever you can or have left. Depending on luck or lack thereof, one or both of these archers may have the stun immunity up on them at absolutely the wrong time. That is why I liked to keep the the bears taunt followed by his stun in reserve, I think lol.

I am not sure about some of this that follows. Tar may slow them down. A trap may give the Lm a few more seconds but I don't remember either of those. I also don't remember using root. The Lm in our group had no success with their root and that didn't surpirse me. The burglar couldn't land anything.

Editorial:: For me personally, exploits ruin the game. I think some are there on purpose so everyone in the game can "win" if you call that winning. Certainly exploits give pugs a better than average chance of succeeding and reduce their dependence on a particular class.

I would like to share this with you. I was in a fellowship and a player I never met told our group not to worry about the archers becasue I, the Lm, could handle them. I was thinking, "What?!" The rest were too lol. That was some serious fun. My heart was pounding as I am sure everyone elses was. No one likes to wipe. One finally did get away but far too late to make any difference.

Back then there was a different exploit. I am so happy that player choose to do hard mode the hard way. He was the healer so there were no options. He would have dropped if someone tried the exploit.

The game experience is entirely different played without exploits!

Any comments adding or correcting this are welcome. Strats change and memory fades with time.

To the Lm the other day. You did a good job.

Not to nitpick but there have been Legendary Items as long as GS has been around. Not sure about specific legacies....

Good strategy to keep the archers busy though. It is difficult to be engaged in the rest of the fight being so far off the field of battle though. I suppose removing the archers makes the other 5 of the fellow have a much easier time. It also adds a little excitement to the fight as I imagine it was originally intended before the emergence of emergent behaviour. The lone Lore-master holds the line, keeping the dead-eyes beyond the range of your compatriots!

Originally Posted by bubbajman

It is difficult to be engaged in the rest of the fight being so far off the field of battle though.

Well I don't see him mentioning his positioning during the battle except for at the very start when he does the AE stun. I've also done true hard mode GS as an LM by keeping the archers busy this way. I'm normally standing in the main room. I ask that everyone stands in the main room but to not go around the corner such that the archers could ever lose LoS of their target and run in after them. With everyone in the main room, the devoted never gets too close to the archers to put the anti-CC buff on them. We have pretty good range on our spells after all.

Not saying it's the best strategy, but sometimes when our group has been without cc, we've gotten a captain to tank the two archers. Works pretty well. Noble mark one, shout at it a bit, then smack the other one and you have agro on both. Oh and I salute you for running the instance as it was intended. So many these days find ways to cheat, and yes it is cheating, which is truly despicable.

Originally Posted by Uky

Well I don't see him mentioning his positioning during the battle except for at the very start when he does the AE stun. I've also done true hard mode GS as an LM by keeping the archers busy this way. I'm normally standing in the main room. I ask that everyone stands in the main room but to not go around the corner such that the archers could ever lose LoS of their target and run in after them. With everyone in the main room, the devoted never gets too close to the archers to put the anti-CC buff on them. We have pretty good range on our spells after all.

Nice to know. I never considered that the archers would path by los. No, I just handled the archers and archers only. Kept them by the stairs where they spawned as well I could.

We did try to have armored classes tank the archers without any luck in previous runs. Healing was a huge factor due to the archers' dps. Maybe we had the wrong make up or character skillz or used the wrong class. I don't remember.

Of course there were legendaries in Moria lol. Duh. Someone slap me.

Anyway, there are a couple really fun instances for Lms. Forges is another. That gets pretty exciting when a hunter breaks a troll's mez. Blind Ones are fun if we have to lock down a couple. Theres a book quest in the southern area of the Foundatios of Stone that offers opportunities of decent 4 mob pulls but that's a solo kind of thing.

Lots of fun and opportunity for Lm's to do have fun with cc. More than just, "Stun the defiler, go when ready".

Dang...I never realized it was the Devoted that made the archers un-dazeable (Blinding Flash is a daze, not a "mez" or a stun).

I think you've just revealed the entire mechanic of the Hard Mode fight: keep the Devoted away from the archers.

When done the "real" way we've always used a heavy to tank the archers (including captain) and it is never easy even with 65s. This now all makes sense: you're not supposed to tank them at all.

Good to know!

Originally Posted by Kaluu

"Stun the defiler, go when ready".

Waste of time, slot MoNF, bring a champ (or two!), go wreck stuff!

(course the HM strategy won't work in that case)

Having the LM trying to keep the archers CC'd and out of range of the Devoted is a very tricky strategy. I've tried it a number of times, and it almost always falls apart. Every once in in a while it works.

More reliable: Bring in a good Guard. Ignore the Devoted; he doesn't hit very hard. Tank everything else at melee, including the Archers. Everyone except the Guard does single DPS on Igash. The Guard maximizes aggro building by all available means with the intent to hold Igash and the two Archers, but without killing the Archers. LM can Wind Lore Archers that stray to ranged attacks, but the guard should maneuvre them back to melee. Guard uses Pledge as needed if the Healer falls behind. Everyone stays out of the fire and tries to stay out of Igash's shadow damage range. Other meleers should move to long range if low on morale, as the Guard will get priority on heals.

If the fight goes clean, down in 90 seconds. Maybe faster.

Originally Posted by Bigtuna00

Waste of time, slot MoNF, bring a champ (or two!), go wreck stuff!

(course the HM strategy won't work in that case)

hehe, well, I was less than clear there. I was alluding to the other examples I mentioned and by extension similar challenging cc engagements for Lms. Often, though, all we get instead is alot of stuff like, "stun the defiler when ready" or "root pull." I think many players of all classes think that is cc.

A Lm can do much more.

There is a reason the DN set gives us a 35 second mez as the capstone 5 set bonus. It's not so we can "start" cc'ing 2 mobs. That builds on the already awesome cc capabilities of the class to cc mucho multiple mobs. Off topic, but, well, that was kind of why I started the thread. Possibilities! Our class deserves better than to be pigeon holed into some kind of simpleton role or treated as such.

Originally Posted by Viniel

Having the LM trying to keep the archers CC'd and out of range of the Devoted is a very tricky strategy. I've tried it a number of times, and it almost always falls apart. Every once in in a while it works.

More reliable: Bring in a good Guard. Ignore the Devoted; he doesn't hit very hard. Tank everything else at melee, including the Archers. Everyone except the Guard does single DPS on Igash. The Guard maximizes aggro building by all available means with the intent to hold Igash and the two Archers, but without killing the Archers. LM can Wind Lore Archers that stray to ranged attacks, but the guard should maneuvre them back to melee. Guard uses Pledge as needed if the Healer falls behind. Everyone stays out of the fire and tries to stay out of Igash's shadow damage range. Other meleers should move to long range if low on morale, as the Guard will get priority on heals.

If the fight goes clean, down in 90 seconds. Maybe faster.

^This. Trying to keep the devoted away from the archers is an exercise in frustration.

The first time I ran this instance we did the glitch, but I don't like doing that. And there are debates over whether dropping the devoted and resetting changes the loot drops.
We spent several runs trying to get another guard or a champ to take the archers, but that means you need two tanks in an instance where you really only need one, or if your champ is holding the archers, you've lost dps on Igash.
The best way we have found is to get the guard to hold aggro on the archers as well as Igash, heals straight on to the guard, everyone else dps on Igash. It becomes a bit of a dps race, but it's very doable without much drama. Just get the minny to pop blue at the end of any cj and it's all good! Note that this is by far easiest with a full group of 65s, but we've done it with a mix of toons from 58-65 as well, just a couple of times had to get our LM to switch to his hunter for more dps.

GS isn't really a difficult instance, but doing HM properly requires a bit of thought and planning (as it should, really.)

What is fun with HM is when the devoted glitches and stops running around, instead focusing on one target. I ended up taking him that time, made it through the whole fight, only to end up dieing after Igash was dead. Good times.

Originally Posted by Kaluu

hehe, well, I was less than clear there. I was alluding to the other examples I mentioned and by extension similar challenging cc engagements for Lms. Often, though, all we get instead is alot of stuff like, "stun the defiler when ready" or "root pull." I think many players of all classes think that is cc.

A Lm can do much more.

There is a reason the DN set gives us a 35 second mez as the capstone 5 set bonus. It's not so we can "start" cc'ing 2 mobs. That builds on the already awesome cc capabilities of the class to cc mucho multiple mobs. Off topic, but, well, that was kind of why I started the thread. Possibilities! Our class deserves better than to be pigeon holed into some kind of simpleton role or treated as such.

I am so glad I have not had to do a single root-pull on my LM. I despise these in the most awful way. I nearly pulled my eyballs out when I was running HoC with 2champs/guard/hunter/RK/LM, and the hunter root-pulled the melee goblins.....usually I am very calm and collected and not much bothers me...EXCEPT ROOT-PULLS!

/re-rail

Originally Posted by Kaluu

Thought this might help the lm who was in our group the other day.
(...)

Handling Archers in Igash fight is a tricky business:

1) Devoted has a CC-Imunity aura.
2) Devoted cannot be tanked. It is permanently on an Enraged state, meaning he will attack random people at random times.
3) Archers have a scripted attack, they will stop fighting their tank, move to the center of the throne room and launch a hard hitting AoE attack.

There are some ways to control them with CC. Be sure to look at the archer's buff bar and look for the anti-cc buff. Use wind-lore to keep their impact to a minimum. Use the crow to distract them if they use their scripted attack. Stun or Mezz them you see an induction.

But, from my experience, best way to handle the archer's is to straight tank them. Either by the main tank or a dedicated off-tank. A warden can do wonders there since they require very low maintenance from the healer and can interrupt when the archers go out of their way to launch their scripted attack.

i have had fairly good sucess with GS HM, even in pugs.

the strat i use is, try to get a guard/warden to tank the archers, and have the mini concentrate on healing them. have a champ or burg tank igash(captain will be fine too). for this strat to work, you as the lm HAVE to trait healer and light of hope. even without the beacon of hope healing legacy, it can crit for 2.5k. the champ also has to drop fervour, ardour is fine if there a fairly good champ, but gliry is better.

i personally prefer a burg tanking igash, as they have tough and go, and a nice 2k heal when the stun comes. also, if you have a burg and the healer gets behind on the tank, and you think he wont survive a 3g3b cj will will help immensly.

with this strat, i have only wiped once.

the best class make up for this strat is mini/rk, burg, lm, guard/warden, and 2 dps class's, preferably champs in case the burg or tank goes down.

You are making far more work for yourself than you need to at the outset

The archers are mez immune by the devoted, but not ROOT immune. Simply start the encounter and have the group wait near the entrance for the spawn. Use herb lore and the archers will freeze in place (devoted is immune to everything). Then go into Igash's room, with the devoted in toe, and proceed to permamez the archers. As long as everyone stays in the room with Igash, the devoted will not get anywhere near them to give immunity.

Myself, a guard, and a minstrel 3 manned hard mode at level 60 using this strat. Twas a fun fight

Originally Posted by KainXI

...and proceed to permamez the archers...

Oh! Did your mez just resist? I'm sorry!

(Seems to happen a lot lately, unfortunately. Otherwise I agree your strat should work if all goes perfect.)

Originally Posted by Viniel

Oh! Did your mez just resist? I'm sorry!

(Seems to happen a lot lately, unfortunatley. Otherwise I agree your strat should work if all goes perfect.)

I have had my 1A book with -2200 physical resist for so long I have forgotten mezzes can be resisted. Still, someone iwth a 3rd age book with physical could simply put on the BF resist trait.

Originally Posted by KainXI

I have had my 1A book with -2200 physical resist for so long I have forgotten mezzes can be resisted. Still, someone iwth a 3rd age book with physical could simply put on the BF resist trait.

Good tip.

(Ah - If all LMs were so well prepared.)

One trick and this also worked. I am a burgler and a LM. If I play the Burgler. I use Burgler skill to stun one Archer. let the tank take the Other archer. Then do 10% buff on the boss. While keeping one Archer stunned. That last 30 seconds. I can run to the boss do some CJ For all yellow. Or 3 Green 3 Blue depending on the Healer. Then run back before the Times up and stun Archer.

I like to have a Warden tank the archers, I find the main problem with the archers is their induction based skill. With a Warden there are no problems at all.

So much easier just to OT these guys then try to control them, even on level. Stick a Champ/Warden/Captain/Burg/Guard on them and everyone else just kills the boss.

I've done this a lot of ways. Tanking the archers with captain, champ, warden, guard, burg all works. Having a guard or warden tank the archers and Igash works fine too. I've had champs pick up aggro on the archers then run over and pound on Igash. I've had a captain who tanks and kills one archer at a time to give himself Rallying Cry.

The archers hit hard when they're at range, but if you keep them in melee distance, they're manageable. I've even just straight up tanked it on my LM. Just debuff them, stay in melee range, use Bog or Eagle for flank heals and it's fine.

i always use my bear to tank devoted and me keeping both archers stunned so i can dmg igash. Try to heal your bear and always use wound removal and stunnprodection on you and your bear. Also Heal yourself fia flanks. if you want you can also kill the archers again and again. thats easyer cause they will not damage you then.

Is it the Target Resist debuffing skill that I need for this?

Well i am 65 and geared. I have tanked the archers with 0 outside heals traited MoNF, Debuffs, flanks, WotC and man heal FtW.

Well done reviving a year old thread

Ya it might be a old but most everyone on Menidor seid LM can't tank the Archers. My LM did with no problem. Bear on one target. Stun the Other Target. Not sure if this was a glitch or not. It did not matter if Devoted was near me or not to keep them stunned.

Trait Explosive Force

With a book that had 3 Target Resist fire 6, Damage max and Debuff Max. All but fire Resist is Max out.

Update

Well it was a Glitch. Here something Burglers and LM should know. If the archers come at the start. You have to use root and keep them at a distance from the Devoted. But if they dont spawn Untel later in combat. The devoted dose not have the one skill active to prevent the archers to be stun.

Other things I was doing in Combat. DPS Boss Giving Power to other Toons.

Originally Posted by mptyspacez

Well done reviving a year old thread

This, of a instance that is fairly easy and on a tactic that is solvable a dozen different ways, easily. But yeah usually they're immune to stuns (as described above) but it's really not hard for any level 65 class that has any self healing capability, or pots, or a healer watching them occasionally, to keep two weak ranged enemies busy - especially an LM with the flanks and debuffs available. If a serious discussion of tanking tactics for this instance's archers is taking place then.... 1) you're not at cap, 2) get to cap, 3) wear half decent armor, 4) read the descriptions of all your skills, 5) reread them a few more times, 6) keep the two guys busy by hitting/whatever them,, 7) keep a stack of pots on you (and other consumables !! what is it with every other person running around potless, foodless, buffless, scrollless, ALL THE TIME), 8) take a look at your jewelry and upgrade.

Originally Posted by rhegan

This, of a instance that is fairly easy and on a tactic that is solvable a dozen different ways, easily. But yeah usually they're immune to stuns (as described above) but it's really not hard for any level 65 class that has any self healing capability, or pots, or a healer watching them occasionally, to keep two weak ranged enemies busy - especially an LM with the flanks and debuffs available. If a serious discussion of tanking tactics for this instance's archers is taking place then.... 1) you're not at cap, 2) get to cap, 3) wear half decent armor, 4) read the descriptions of all your skills, 5) reread them a few more times, 6) keep the two guys busy by hitting/whatever them,, 7) keep a stack of pots on you (and other consumables !! what is it with every other person running around potless, foodless, buffless, scrollless, ALL THE TIME), 8) take a look at your jewelry and upgrade.

Dont forget the main one. Watch out for the other players and there classes. If one guy pug. It could ruin the fun for you all.

Stupid Things I heard. LM and Burglers can't Tank (Stun) the archres. I even had a stupid arguement with a level 65 burgler. Who seid burglers can t stun the archers.

Yes I agree with the Food, Pots and such.

The first post worked for our group, Thanks for the advise.