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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    68
    My tip: In a group environment- When people in your group start dying, it isn't necessarily your fault! There can be many factors that determine death and it is not often the tank who is responsible. Here are a few other factors:

    1) Target assist(TA) isn't being used properly if at all. At low levels I suugest you make yourself target assist so that other new players at that level can understand that you MUST use it to target in group play. If everyone is on the same target as the tank, there is next to no chance that you will lose a mob. At higher levels TA usually shows the Main Tank(MT), the Offensive Tank(OT) and the DPS(Damage per second) targets. Here they main tank is usually always switching targets to pull as many as he/she can, so the group targets the DPS target. If the OT targets the DPS target too then if by some chance the MT loses the DPS target, the OT will always be able to take it away from your squishies(Minstrel, Loremaster, Runekeeper, Hunter, Burglar, Warden[Bahaha, couldn't help meself with this])
    2) Group members are not running in the right stance and creating too much threat generation for you to keep up with. It's a good idea to have any hunters run in endurance stance when you first start grouping to make it easier for you to learn group dynamics and not having them die on you too much . Champs need to learn their Ebb skill so that they dump threat on you. Burglars use Provoke to dump threat on you. If they don't use these skills and keep dying, is that your fault? I think not! As you get closer to level cap the art of a great guard is to have the right build and skill rotation to allow his/her group members to go full on hot burn without the threat of being killed. ie The MT losing aggro. But always remember that it is EVERYONE's responsibilty to handle threat and NOT just yours.
    3) Group members on a kill freenzy! Being in a group is very different to solo. Some people don't realise that there is a group dynamic involved and one of the worst mistakes that DPS classes make is they start attacking immediately when they even SMELL a mob around. Always be sure to remind group members to give you 3-5 seconds BEFORE they start attacking a particularly difficult boss, or else you'll be mopping up the blood and body parts of your friends!
    4) The instance/raid is being managed incorrectly by your group. ie. Your strategy is wrong. Re-work it with a different strategy, but never, never get discouraged; the satisfaction you get out of wiping a couple of times and then finally getting the right strategy is worth it.
    5) Someone is trying to ninja you! Some high level players who are rolling new toons think it's fun to enter a PUG(Pick up group) and totally disrupt it. Don't ask me why; I have no idea in the logic!

    So there are many reasons why people die and none of them may be your fault. If people start abusing you because they die, keep that in mind and ask them some questions about THEIR gameplay. More often than not you'll find out that it is them and not you.
    Last edited by Thugli_Longdrop; Jan 29 2013 at 06:08 PM.

    'That still only counts as one!'

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    68
    Quote Originally Posted by elyxthaxzus View Post
    Long time player returning recently. Here's a few solid general tanking tips that have helped me across many MMO's over the years

    1) in addition to knowing your skills, also make sure you know where they are on your hotkeys. If you don't use hotkeys at this point, it would be beneficial to learn. It is a much faster and easier approach then skill clicking (though clicking works, it isn't as fast...there's actually some decent research on this out there as well). and don't switch them up too often...the last thing you want to do is have to look in a fervor for that one skill you need while an orc is pounding on your defenseless healer who just oom'ed. On a similar line, get used to using your mouse to turn with, not the keyboard. in the length of time it takes you to keyboard turn to face a mob that just aggroed your healer, your healer could easily die. turn with your mouse, initiate skills with your keys. Even if it feels weird at first, it is DEFINITELY WORTH IT. start early if you have to.

    2) in addition to knowing your hotkeys, Know the visual queues that turbine has in place for your parry and block reactives. These are critical for tanking (as well as DPS), and so knowing the visual queues will save you from having to glance down at your skills every second to see if your reactive chains are open.

    3) Situational Awareness. It's a term I've coined for all the general awareness skills a tank needs that a DPS or healer does not. DPS will usually not go past their main target in relation to being aware (some don't even get that far!), and the healers will often have 95% of their attention on health bars (what I call the "Healing Zone"). Unfortunately, that means that someone needs to pay attention to everything else that's going on. having quick(er) reactions is a big plus in this (which is why #1 is so important).

    Here's a few ways to increase your Situational Awareness outside of a group. The reason I developed these for new tanks is its a frustrating experience to have to "learn" tanking skills under the pressure of being in the lead of a group for the first time. Much better to have those skills down, or at least comfortable with them, so you can deal with the more global challenge of group interaction and communication. It's VERY easy to "zone in" when tanking initially...it's the stree reaction under pressure. so you want to break that zoning habit as soon as possible by getting used to "zoning out" when your tanking mob. These steps can help a great deal. so onto those tips:

    First off, practice panning your camera around while your fighting solo mobs. By default holding down the left click and moving your mouse can accomplish this without turning your guard (this is key...don't turn away from the mob hehe). Practice identifying other objects in the field of view as your doing this....while your fighting! Those objects should be anything from non combat visual details (pots, stones, etc), to possible roaming mobs. What your trying to accomplish here is to get used to using your skills while keeping track of whats going on. this can be tough at first, especially if your also breaking the habit of keyboard turning or skill clicking. but just like those items, it's a critical step in becoming a better tank.

    next, do the same thing but pull in more then one mob (solo). This time also add in cycling through the mobs and alternating skill use. as an example, you may hit mob A with sting and ward, then click on mob B and hit it with shield blow and vexing blow, then on mob C you may hit it with sting and retaliate, then back to mob A, etc. the key here is to get used to one, dealing with multiple mobs...two, getting used to spreading out your threat skills as well as dealing with holding aggro on multiple mobs, and 3, getting used to doing all of this while SCANNING THE ENVIRONMENT. being able to identify all that stuff that's going on around you is key to being an effective tank.

    Last step is to learn how to position multiple mobs while doing all of the above. so basically do the same thing you did in step two above, but now try to herd the mobs into a group. take a few steps back, and rotate as you step back so the mobs follow you and "cone in". this can be really helpful if you want to hit a group of mobs with something like traited vexing blow, or sweeping cut. both of those skills hit in a smaller arc in front of you. By pulling back, the mobs temporarily funnel in towards you in a perfect arrangement for those skills! great way of organizing and controlling mobs. I'll even do this with groups that I know have solid AoE DPS skills (like champs and RK's). use this process to gather the mobs up, and let them go to town! (saving your AoE taunt for this really helps as well). But either way, get used to controlling the mobs byt pacing them and directing them this way.

    NOTE: outside of those awareness tips above, if your still having problems breaking the "Zone in" tendency, then apply a concept I learned in real life Close quarters combat training. KEEP YOUR EYES MOVING. do not let them just sit on one aspect of the screen. force your eyes to move from one target to the next. there is evidence through research that the eyes are physiologically linked to the brains activities...simply forcing them to move can actually get your brain engaged and working faster! so if your having problems zoneing in on the mob in front of you, force yoru eyes to look at your healer...or the mob pounding them...or look one at a time at all the mobs you are fighting. If it helps, you can temporarily reduce the graphical animations on the screen in your graphics tab so theres not so much "busy stuff" going on on the screen (sometimes with all the spell animations, it's tough to see whats going on).

    Situational Awareness is probably one of the most critical concepts that a tank can learn. I can always tell a tank thats new based on their reactions to whats going on around them...especially with multiple mobs. I ran GB the other day on a new RK as healer...there wasn't one fight where i didn't have at least one mob on me. the champion was actually holding threat on most the mobs...and the guardian spent most his time slowly spinning in place (keyboard turner) and fighting one mob at a time..usually not the one the DPS were hitting. it was a difficult group, but there were many things the tank could have done better if he would have been aware of what was going on. but his lack of situational awareness meant he was alwasy one step behind. I felt for him actually....you really feel bad in those situations, because most tanks WANT to do a good job. but without understanding how to gain those skills, many often just get frustrated and gie up. Hope this helps.
    This is a freakin awesome post! I wish it were mine! Heehee

    Imho it is imperative that the guard learn these skills. As tank, it is virtually left to you to know and understand the surroundings; everyone else is too busy with the focus of the moment and cannot regulate the environment like you can; you must determine the ebb and flow of a run.

    The only thing I would add is the use of key mapping in your options box; assign hotkeys that are usable for you. Mine is totally different to the default settings because of the way I play and everyone is different. eg. All of the hotkeys in quickslot #2 box are linked to my function keys; I use Ctrl/Alt/Spacebar to Target/scroll through/Auto-attack mobs I could go on but you get the idea right?!

    This is great advice! Thanks for posting it elyxthaxzus as, all too often, this aspect of Guardian play is over-looked and not spoken about.

    'That still only counts as one!'

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian82 View Post
    This thread has been great. I have to say that after usually playing a dps role in most mmo's (and in a text-based game a buffer/raiser of dead.), I decided to try a guardian.. AND I LOVE IT.

    The only problem is, is that I am so afraid that I will let people down in a fellowship by failing utterly at tanking. I don't want to get yelled at, but I know eventually (I am at level 27 and have managed to not do a GB run...yet.) I will have to tank.

    I have practiced in skirmishes with my shield bashes, swipe, taunts and I think I do an okay job. My question is, what do I do if I fail utterly at tanking? And what should I be aware of?

    What I have gotten from this thread so far is.

    My job is threat, not dps -- Check!
    Face mobs away from her fellows -- Check!
    If you are in a group with a warden take to off-tank to protect squishy healers -- Check!

    So, any other advice?
    Embrace the fear! It will make you a very good Guard! First rule in Tanking imo is: If your healer is doing his/her job well; never, never, never let them die! Ok perhaps thats a little ambiguous but I hope you understand what I mean.

    I joined alot of PUGs when I first started tanking seriously. I wouldn't really advise that to anyone although it helped me learn faster. There's nothing like getting abused a few times to really make yourself learn about group dynamics and most of the time it wasn't me at fault. I got encouragement from group members who said things like "don't listen to them, you're doing you rjob and it's them that's at fault" I wanted to understand why so I could say it to them personally! I guess the best way to start tanking is with an understanding kin who can assist you. If abuse scares you then that's the nbest way for you to go. Me on the other hand? The abuse just made me more focused and determined so it helped me.

    Another piece of advice when you first start tanking is: Choose an area which is poplar and tank the &&&& out of it! I had always wanted to get to Moria; if I did nothing else in the game it'd be fine as long as I got to Moria. I'm a Tolkien junkie so Moria was my target. Then I found out there was a META-Deed available and I was in Lotro heaven. I stayed in Moria from level 45 right through to level 72 doing the META-deed and got my black goat and title. It took a while but I enjoyed it so much it seemed quick for me. The thing was that everyone has to do Moria and most people hate it for some reason. So they can't wait to get all the raids/instances done and get out. (Besides the Durin's Guard gear ruled for me while most were going with the Helegrod set) If you focus on tanking one area you will learn the instances inside and out, really learn how to tank, you will never be short of a group and you may even learn to lead a raid. I do think it helps a raid alot if the Guard is able to take charge and lead it. You don't have to, it just helps. These are the things that staying in Moria did for me.

    There are other areas where you can do the same type of thing at earlier or same level too: Annuminas, Angmar, Misty Mountains, Forochel, but imho Moria aces them all for opportunity to learn.
    Last edited by Thugli_Longdrop; Jan 29 2013 at 06:17 PM.

    'That still only counts as one!'

  4. #84
    Just Got Here Online status: BrinkMeister is offline Reputation: BrinkMeister the Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Thugli_Longdrop View Post
    Embrace the fear! It will make you a very good Guard! First rule in Tanking imo is: If your healer is doing his/her job well; never, never, never let them die! Ok perhaps thats a little ambiguous but I hope you understand what I mean.

    I joined alot of PUGs when I first started tanking seriously. I wouldn't really advise that to anyone although it helped me learn faster. There's nothing like getting abused a few times to really make yourself learn about group dynamics and most of the time it wasn't me at fault. I got encouragement from group members who said things like "don't listen to them, you're doing you rjob and it's them that's at fault" I wanted to understand why so I could say it to them personally! I guess the best way to start tanking is with an understanding kin who can assist you. If abuse scares you then that's the nbest way for you to go. Me on the other hand? The abuse just made me more focused and determined so it helped me.

    Another piece of advice when you first start tanking is: Choose an area which is poplar and tank the &&&& out of it! I had always wanted to get to Moria; if I did nothing else in the game it'd be fine as long as I got to Moria. I'm a Tolkien junkie so Moria was my target. Then I found out there was a META-Deed available and I was in Lotro heaven. I stayed in Moria from level 45 right through to level 72 doing the META-deed and got my black goat and title. It took a while but I enjoyed it so much it seemed quick for me. The thing was that everyone has to do Moria and most people hate it for some reason. So they can't wait to get all the raids/instances done and get out. (Besides the Durin's Guard gear ruled for me while most were going with the Helegrod set) If you focus on tanking one area you will learn the instances inside and out, really learn how to tank, you will never be short of a group and you may even learn to lead a raid. I do think it helps a raid alot if the Guard is able to take charge and lead it. You don't have to, it just helps. These are the things that staying in Moria did for me.

    There are other areas where you can do the same type of thing at earlier or same level too: Annuminas, Angmar, Misty Mountains, Forochel, but imho Moria aces them all for opportunity to learn.

    I have to agree with Viridian, this thread has been great to just get a few tips and tricks for the long way ahead!

    I have been tanking for all my mmo 'career' (around 5-6 years) but had a break now for about 2 years, but now I find myself stuck in lotro and I quickly found my way back to the tanking class. I dont know, but there is just something with being clad in heavy armor, shield and sword in hand charging the enemy ..

    Anyway, even tho I been tanking for quite awile I feel quite nervous for the first instance run, that I guess I will be having soon (lvl 18 atm). I really dont want to &&&& up because being new ... but on the same time its, I have the same feeling as I had when I started my first mmo; so much to learn and so much to see.

    So I will have to just follow your advice, embrace the fear, just go for it and learn from the experience. Also finding a nice kin seems to be a thing to look for if you want nice instance runs.

    Thanks for the encouraging words, Longdrop!

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