Thread: Creep transfers are poison for PvP

I think turbine had the right idea when the initially resisted the idea of creep transfers. Unfournatly they eventually folded to community pressure and put them in place.

They really hurt every server involved. Servers that attract lots of transfers eventually get destroyed (and it usually doesnt take long), everything that made them special in the first place is ruined. High rank creep numbers swell and the freeps stand little chance.

On the flip side, smaller servers lose their vets and raid leaders. The culture of the server changes, occasinaly for the better but usually for the worse. EC camping usually becomes even more prominant.

You might be tempted to say, even w/o transfers, creeps could still roll toons on other servers. But I think thats fine. You have to start from the begining, working up from a greeny makes it more likely that a player will adapt to another servers culture rather then bringing over a sense of entitlement and trying to change things. Furthermore it weeds out those that arent truly dedicated to making a change. Having to start from scratch, no infamy, no DP etc. really makes people think twice. It's also a less permanent move, after ranking up to r5 or r6 might choose to go back to their high ranked creep on their home server.

I don't expect turbine to make a change, not only is it a loss of income (albeit a meager one) taking away options from customers usually doesnt go over well. All same it's something I wanted to vent.

I can understand creeps, but why not transfering freeps? Those servers would benefit from new freeps and now people who are unhappy with their server either a) transfer to a server that is not landy/e/bwine or b) quit. This could cause a lot of people who would continue to play cancel their sub

yeah...On BWine now I think I know 5-6 creeps that play...everyone else are new names that I've never seen before. It's horrible.

I completely agree with the OP, I'm glad they finally made this change. My server has lost so many people to Brandywine and Elendimir because they're the more populated servers.

So now Silverlode needs more PvPers, feel free to drop by!

lmao I didnt even know they stopped transfers to BW, E and Landy

Props turbine

Very strange that I picked today to make that rant then...collective unconscious anyone? :P

Reminds me of firefoot and Brandywine just before book 13. I was in a tribe called legion and we were tired of having no action or people only playing when Soulshadow(a star hugging leader) was on. Pretty much everyone in the tribe transferred(including me) or made an alt on Brandywine. Firefoot was just full of greens and blue dots for a while after that until a few months later a lot of us decided to go back.

Originally Posted by ryanmstanding

lmao I didnt even know they stopped transfers to BW, E and Landy

It is a glorious, glorious day.

Lmao transfers are not the problem , the problem is that creeps have the ability to roll a new toon on any server they want after 45mins of pve to get lv10. Closing transfers is not going to fix the problem IMHO to roll a creep or to transfer a creep to a different server there should be a requirement of having a level 30 freep there.

Its funny, PvMP is such a minority according to others, but yet its enough for them to have to shut transfers off on the heavy PvMP servers.

On Landy we easily got 50 new creeps the past 2 months or so.. And the majority being rank 8+ too.

Originally Posted by deathman22

lmao Transfers Are Not The Problem , The Problem Is That Creeps Have The Ability To Roll A New Toon On Any Server They Want After 45mins Of Pve To Get Lv10. Closing Transfers Is Not Going To Fix The Problem Imho To Roll A Creep Or To Transfer A Creep To A Different Server There Should Be A Requirement Of Having A Level 30 Freep There.

Originally Posted by ryanmstanding

You Might Be Tempted To Say, Even W/o Transfers, Creeps Could Still Roll Toons On Other Servers. But I Think Thats Fine. You Have To Start From The Begining, Working Up From A Greeny Makes It More Likely That A Player Will Adapt To Another Servers Culture Rather Then Bringing Over A Sense Of Entitlement And Trying To Change Things. Furthermore It Weeds Out Those That Arent Truly Dedicated To Making A Change. Having To Start From Scratch, No Infamy, No Dp Etc. Really Makes People Think Twice. It's Also A Less Permanent Move, After Ranking Up To R5 Or R6 Might Choose To Go Back To Their High Ranked Creep On Their Home Server.

1234567890

Originally Posted by jebus5434

Its funny, PvMP is such a minority according to others, but yet its enough for them to have to shut transfers off on the heavy PvMP servers.

On Landy we easily got 50 new creeps the past 2 months or so.. And the majority being rank 8+ too.

50 Hahaha what are you smoking i say 15 at max

So big deal they stopped xfers.

This will only hurt and hinder freepside, not effect creepside even one bit.

Are you a creep on a dead or dieing server? Need more consistant action at all hours of the day? Feel u should be on a high pop server? Level a toon to 10, roll a new creep, rank to 5 within a week. Problem solved.

Are you a freep on a dead and dieing server? is your GLFF pitifully small? The moors quiet and crickets chirping? Already maxed out your legendary weapons, your virtues traits, all your class quests and books and done all the meta deeds in the old dungeons people dont bother with anymore? well sorry sucker, you are stuck on your dead server, or u can go through the massive grind to get back to where you are on another server.

Anyone who thinks this will help control the creeps population exploding on Landy, E or BW .... should buy the swampland I have for sale in Florida... PM me, first 3 PM's get 50% off.

They need to boost small servers or merge the two smallest. i saw 5 new freep transfers alone this week and i can't complain i am one, yet m with that said creep side is different. most servers are creepnami.

it makes it hard to fight. Yet i have always said in order to transfer freep or creep u should have to have a freep up to atleast 30 on that server.

That way it lets u realize what a freep has to do to build their characters to come to the moors and also helps cut down the ok i wanna play creep mentality.

When a creep transfers dp doesnt transfer with them.

so that is is a grind on their own, but, i have seen new creeps go from 0-6 in no time and green-blue.

i think with the numbers turbine needs to relook the resists and it will be ok.

creeps were never meant to be equal to freeps as we never had the numbers.

i sometimes think transfers are good brings new play styles (of course i'm biased:P)
yet i think turbine needs to check numbers before letting ppl transfer.

its up to the community to ween out the negative transfers to protect their community.

One thing i learned when i transfer, is i wont lead over raid leaders who have been here because i am new this is their home, i wont tell ppl that im better than them i never think that, i always uphold the community and try and preserve it as much as possible because they worked hard on it.

if we destroy it thats stupid so i say be polite when u go to new servers and now u cant xfers are closed i'm sure at somepoint w/ f2p u can use them again. hopefully it takes less than 2 wks:P.

Originally Posted by jebus5434

On Landy we easily got 50 new creeps the past 2 months or so.. And the majority being rank 8+ too.

Originally Posted by stormofiron

50 Hahaha what are you smoking i say 15 at max

Yeah, 15 sounds about right.

I'm all for stopping anymore transfers though.

Originally Posted by ryanmstanding

I think turbine had the right idea when the initially resisted the idea of creep transfers. Unfournatly they eventually folded to community pressure and put them in place.

They really hurt every server involved. Servers that attract lots of transfers eventually get destroyed (and it usually doesnt take long), everything that made them special in the first place is ruined. High rank creep numbers swell and the freeps stand little chance.

On the flip side, smaller servers lose their vets and raid leaders. The culture of the server changes, occasinaly for the better but usually for the worse. EC camping usually becomes even more prominant.

You might be tempted to say, even w/o transfers, creeps could still roll toons on other servers. But I think thats fine. You have to start from the begining, working up from a greeny makes it more likely that a player will adapt to another servers culture rather then bringing over a sense of entitlement and trying to change things. Furthermore it weeds out those that arent truly dedicated to making a change. Having to start from scratch, no infamy, no DP etc. really makes people think twice. It's also a less permanent move, after ranking up to r5 or r6 might choose to go back to their high ranked creep on their home server.

I don't expect turbine to make a change, not only is it a loss of income (albeit a meager one) taking away options from customers usually doesnt go over well. All same it's something I wanted to vent.

While I agree in principle. Unless you are the player stuck on a low pop server I believe that it is a different kettle of fish. As someone who has rerolled twice (and regret it greatly) it is one thing to work your way up from r0 once or starting over anon on another server but to be known and have more expected of you skill wise you find that many things become useless too you without the tools of the trade you are used to using. Imagine a mythical swordsman of japan starting over in china without his well crafted sword. Skills or not, the blade will fail him and ultimately lead to his demise.

In summary, as long as it's legal: get off their backs and welcome them to your server as a respected player (if deserved of course).

Originally Posted by Pusher

Yeah, 15 sounds about right.

Let's see...Durtz, Moof, Xerxsys, Necksnapper, Torqueo, Gouber, Gii, Loogy, Bealzebub, Prylor, Tabernak, Maniia, Kevidan, Kilcan, Whitestripes, Purukhai, Ditzy, Drej, Rocketail, Gutshank...that's 20 transfers right there off the top of my head who I have encountered during Late Night. I'm sure there are plenty others that I missed.

Point being, there may be less than 50, but there is certainly more than 15. And my apologies if one of the peeps mentioned above was not a transfer. It's just getting really hard to tell the difference these days. LOL

Is this going to encourage freeps and creeps to try to stick it out on their own servers? Or will people just find a new server to transfer too, Meneldor or Silverlode maybe?

Send your Freep's and Creeps to Windfola. We'll make beautiful music together.

Originally Posted by thenoobler

So big deal they stopped xfers.

This will only hurt and hinder freepside, not effect creepside even one bit.

Are you a creep on a dead or dieing server? Need more consistant action at all hours of the day? Feel u should be on a high pop server? Level a toon to 10, roll a new creep, rank to 5 within a week. Problem solved.

Are you a freep on a dead and dieing server? is your GLFF pitifully small? The moors quiet and crickets chirping? Already maxed out your legendary weapons, your virtues traits, all your class quests and books and done all the meta deeds in the old dungeons people dont bother with anymore? well sorry sucker, you are stuck on your dead server, or u can go through the massive grind to get back to where you are on another server.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thenoobler again.


Funny thing is though... you're still gonna get some creeps who'll debate you on this. I can't tell you how many times its been argued that getting a freep to rank 8 is easier than a creep to rank 8 from birth.

Its a good change but too late imo. Servers have already been ruined by zergs of high ranks transferring into already high creep population and face rolling.

I guess I could have started a new toon when I moved from Windfola to Meneldor but at the time it sure took a long time to get to r7. And then another year and a bit to get r12 which would not have been possible on Windy. Its a shame if Turbine shut down transfers.

Perhaps some day they will commit a single server for pvmp such that freeps can teleport there whenever they choose. Even better if it were pvmp-only toons where rank gained everyone pvmp-related skills and gear. I'd start over for that.

Transfers aren't all that bad! After all, some people improve the server by transferring to, and others improve it by transferring away.

I'm not late-night landy with Alphanova, and I know that time frame really got affected by transfers, but I have really liked the some of the PvMP that the E-Creeps brought with them.

Originally Posted by deathman22

Lmao transfers are not the problem , the problem is that creeps have the ability to roll a new toon on any server they want after 45mins of pve to get lv10. Closing transfers is not going to fix the problem IMHO to roll a creep or to transfer a creep to a different server there should be a requirement of having a level 30 freep there.

I don't like this, since then it makes finding a new server, if you're searching for one, much more time consuming.
I think they should leave it as is, level 10 freep opens the Moors. But your creep is locked at Rank 0, so it can buy the Rank 0 Passives and Skills, but can't gain infamy or can't progress to Rank 1.
That gives you enough chance to see if you like the PvP on that server without being very time consuming.
If you do like it enough, then you level your freep up to 30, or 40, and it unlocks your creep fully.

the biggest problem isnt the transfers, its turbine not upholding the eula. i woulda gladly stayed on brandywine and landy had the eula been upheld.

Some play to not get harassed and constantly berated by some but , in the past the harassment u get doesnt make it very welcoming to stay on a server. So there for pooling everyone w/ a tag just encourages more transfering because who the heck wants to be harassed? maybe remember to treat people w/ respect and ppl wont leave as a result.

so my reasoning for this is that ppl probably would be less likely to leave a server if they just were treated like others want to be treated and or drama less etc.

reminder that its usually only a select few on each server but still the harassment is there enough to make 1 players time miserable. so does the transfer out weight leaving friends and a community you like? i dunno . i miss my friends and the community i raided w/ deeply.

Originally Posted by stormofiron

50 Hahaha what are you smoking i say 15 at max

Originally Posted by Pusher

Yeah, 15 sounds about right.

I'm all for stopping anymore transfers though.

Lets see, I'll include their spot on our leaderboards too:

1-4: Gii, Moof, Durtz, Torqueo
6: Necksnapper
8-9: Kilcan, Prylor

That's 7 of the top 9 actives btw.

15: Whitestripes
18: Plague

9 creeps all R10 and above. 9 of the 24 R10+s on Landy. That's a HUGE impact.

Let's look at the R9s.

Ishmale, Stickeye, Bealzebub, Maniia

That makes 13 out of the top 45 creeps on Landy are relatively recent transfers.

R8s. I'll cut off at 140k infamy regardless of rank.

Nahkshan, Vulgspewer, Grouber, Xerxsys, Aerther, Purukhai, Tabarrnak, Kevidan, Gutshank

That makes 22 over 140k infamy.

And there's about 7 that I'm uncertain of...the names don't seem to be Landy creeps but I can't say for sure.

Simultaneously there was a HUGE onslaught of new creeps rolled from players from other servers around the same time. Lots of bugs that aren't technically transferrs but were definitely drawn here as more and more creeps came over.

I think it's pretty easy to argue there's a MASSIVE impact when nearly 1/3 of your top power players on one side are new. Just plopped into the game.

I think it's also relatively fair to say R9 is a huge power level for a lot of classes. So the introduction of that many R9s can really swing the balance even in the best of times.

BUT Landy wasn't in the best of times...we were experiencing HUGE creep numbers, and MANY of our top creeps were switching to freepside to "help" make gameplay better.

Look, I don't blame or hold any animosity to those players. But I do agree that the transferrs hurt the game. They hurt our community. And they hurt the balance that our server had.

then like i said if turbine doesnt want transfers a dont offer the service and b, manage their eula.

the eula is an important part of the game for everyones enjoyment and honestly i have seen people break it time and time again.

I also think ppl transfer cause they're bored. Its kinda like when u have lived in your house for 5 years and you just want a little change even if it means redecorating a room or just moving up the road.

turbine needs to make it exciting again. i just honestly dont see how transfers hurt the community unless its been proven they exploit. Which honestly usually isnt the case.


all i have seen from transfers are fights that are different and not the styles we're accustomed to which, maybe its the artist in me, i dont mind.

Originally Posted by Thane9

Lets see, I'll include their spot on our leaderboards too:

1-4: Gii, Moof, Durtz, Torqueo
6: Necksnapper
8-9: Kilcan, Prylor

That's 7 of the top 9 actives btw.

15: Whitestripes
18: Plague

9 creeps all R10 and above. 9 of the 24 R10+s on Landy. That's a HUGE impact.

Let's look at the R9s.

Ishmale, Stickeye, Bealzebub, Maniia

That makes 13 out of the top 45 creeps on Landy are relatively recent transfers.

R8s. I'll cut off at 140k infamy regardless of rank.

Nahkshan, Vulgspewer, Grouber, Xerxsys, Aerther, Purukhai, Tabarrnak, Kevidan, Gutshank

That makes 22 over 140k infamy.

And there's about 7 that I'm uncertain of...the names don't seem to be Landy creeps but I can't say for sure.

Simultaneously there was a HUGE onslaught of new creeps rolled from players from other servers around the same time. Lots of bugs that aren't technically transferrs but were definitely drawn here as more and more creeps came over.

I think it's pretty easy to argue there's a MASSIVE impact when nearly 1/3 of your top power players on one side are new. Just plopped into the game.

I think it's also relatively fair to say R9 is a huge power level for a lot of classes. So the introduction of that many R9s can really swing the balance even in the best of times.

BUT Landy wasn't in the best of times...we were experiencing HUGE creep numbers, and MANY of our top creeps were switching to freepside to "help" make gameplay better.

Look, I don't blame or hold any animosity to those players. But I do agree that the transferrs hurt the game. They hurt our community. And they hurt the balance that our server had.

I played on Landy for two somewhat brief periods. Late december/ early january before all these transfers came and then again just a few weeks ago. Maybe it was more obvious as an outsider because it wasn't a gradual change but to me it seemed obvious that the quality of PvP had drastically decreased.

I seem to remember Landy advertising their pvp with event posts on multiple servers. Sounds like they got what they asked for.

Originally Posted by Caunardhon

Send your Freep's and Creeps to Windfola. We'll make beautiful music together.

Tired of playing a creep in a massive zerg of other creeps? Want to get in a little small group or 1 raid v. 1 raid action? Transfer to Windfola, home of the friendliest freeps and the craziest creeps around! Windfola: The only server where freeps still dominate 90% of prime time! Come one, come all, everyone is welcome!

Gather ye rosebuds where ye may;
Transfer, transfer to Windfola today!

(This advertisement paid for by the Windfola Development Committee and by the Hoarwell Beautification Fund.)

I understand the frustration. But I think a better solution is to get more Free Peoples out there. Admittedly, this won't be easy. But it can be done.

No matter how many high rank Creeps transfer to server X, the potential pool of Freep 65's is vastly larger. As I see it, there are four main challenges to getting these Free Peoples out:

1. Poor general image of PvP; LOTRO's overall player-base is PvE-oriented and has some deep-rooted aversion to PvP. A lot of this is misinformation and prejudice, but that is enough to make attracting people to Ettenmoors a challenge

2. Ettenmoors is stale: let's face it, Turbine hasn't given us much to work with in terms of attracting people from PvE side; one smallish zone which is basically the same after three years and there is little to no real reason to go there except to fight; they were on the right track when they started doing things like the Amarthiel event, but apparently whoever planned and promoted that has been canned by Turbine since there hasn't been anything since

3. No MP Tutorial or other in-game support; unlike the rest of the game, MP has no tutorial. Every year or so, me or someone else posts on MP forums that we need a basic MP tutorial to attract newcomers. It simply won't do that everyone has to read the forums to find out how the zone works, etc. It's not rocket science, and the tutorial can be very short, but not having one sends a signal that MP is the red-headed stepchild, a fluffed up chicken play that can and should be ignored by the main player base of Free Peoples

4. Need to ensure a friendly and welcoming atmosphere to new players; I have played almost 100 percent Creepside since the start and one of the things that kept spirits up during times like pre-Book 10 was the camaraderie. On Creepside, a function of being the underdog meant that for the most part people worked together. Now I am sure Freepside PvM can and has been like that too. But the point I am making is that if you are on a server that feels overwhelmed by Creeps, especially high-rank Creeps, that is a signal to bend over backwards to make new Freeps feel welcomed.

I am leaving out lag as an issue. That can be a problem if you show up with more Freeps and the server can't handle it. But what can you do? *shrugs*

We have no control over numbers 1-3. But number 4 is something we can control.

It can be done. We just finished a week-long successful (but exhausting) RP/PvM event on Landroval. The Creeps had big numbers but for the most part the Free Peoples matched them. Lag ended up killing off some really epic fights. But this event and the one we did in October 2009 show it can be done.

However it needs to be a community effort, not just a few people. Veteran Freeps need to plan and hold events and be welcoming to newcomers, etc. Over time you can change the dynamics.

I admit to being as frustrated as everyone else. But we are sort of stuck. Turbine won't lift a finger to do even minimal updates to PvM anymore. If anything is to happen, we have to do it ourselves.

Originally Posted by Zalexia

They need to boost small servers or merge the two smallest. i saw 5 new freep transfers alone this week and i can't complain i am one, yet m with that said creep side is different. most servers are creepnami.

it makes it hard to fight. Yet i have always said in order to transfer freep or creep u should have to have a freep up to atleast 30 on that server.

That way it lets u realize what a freep has to do to build their characters to come to the moors and also helps cut down the ok i wanna play creep mentality.

When a creep transfers dp doesnt transfer with them.

so that is is a grind on their own, but, i have seen new creeps go from 0-6 in no time and green-blue.

i think with the numbers turbine needs to relook the resists and it will be ok.

creeps were never meant to be equal to freeps as we never had the numbers.

i sometimes think transfers are good brings new play styles (of course i'm biased:P)
yet i think turbine needs to check numbers before letting ppl transfer.

its up to the community to ween out the negative transfers to protect their community.

One thing i learned when i transfer, is i wont lead over raid leaders who have been here because i am new this is their home, i wont tell ppl that im better than them i never think that, i always uphold the community and try and preserve it as much as possible because they worked hard on it.

if we destroy it thats stupid so i say be polite when u go to new servers and now u cant xfers are closed i'm sure at somepoint w/ f2p u can use them again. hopefully it takes less than 2 wks:P.

+ respect to you Alz (even tho i already did) unfortunately Elendilmir creepside sees a lot of the opposite of what you just said. a lot of "I was the king on my server" and "I do things my way" hell, a lot of transfer wargs are trying to bring warg packs like on BW. dont care about the raid leaders, TS, vets, anything. candy mountain is destroyed, The monster manual that we have spent years perfecting is something people dont want to deal with (Hell even the Turbine Devs and community team people read through and use our monster manual, but people just think that they deserve to do things their way and not care about the community we built for 3 years. this isnt all of them. a good amount are great people. but not all of them. I personally wish that Tubine would give the community leaders some say in what happens on their servers. we know it wont happen cause the $$ are flowing.

Originally Posted by Thane9

Lets see, I'll include their spot on our leaderboards too:

1-4: Gii, Moof, Durtz, Torqueo
6: Necksnapper
8-9: Kilcan, Prylor

That's 7 of the top 9 actives btw.

15: Whitestripes
18: Plague

9 creeps all R10 and above. 9 of the 24 R10+s on Landy. That's a HUGE impact.

Let's look at the R9s.

Ishmale, Stickeye, Bealzebub, Maniia

That makes 13 out of the top 45 creeps on Landy are relatively recent transfers.

R8s. I'll cut off at 140k infamy regardless of rank.

Nahkshan, Vulgspewer, Grouber, Xerxsys, Aerther, Purukhai, Tabarrnak, Kevidan, Gutshank

That makes 22 over 140k infamy.

And there's about 7 that I'm uncertain of...the names don't seem to be Landy creeps but I can't say for sure.

Simultaneously there was a HUGE onslaught of new creeps rolled from players from other servers around the same time. Lots of bugs that aren't technically transferrs but were definitely drawn here as more and more creeps came over.

I think it's pretty easy to argue there's a MASSIVE impact when nearly 1/3 of your top power players on one side are new. Just plopped into the game.

I think it's also relatively fair to say R9 is a huge power level for a lot of classes. So the introduction of that many R9s can really swing the balance even in the best of times.

BUT Landy wasn't in the best of times...we were experiencing HUGE creep numbers, and MANY of our top creeps were switching to freepside to "help" make gameplay better.

Look, I don't blame or hold any animosity to those players. But I do agree that the transferrs hurt the game. They hurt our community. And they hurt the balance that our server had.

Now try to think of what happened when 12 of the highest ranked creeps left our server...

Originally Posted by Delmore

I personally wish that Tubine would give the community leaders some say in what happens on their servers. we know it wont happen cause the $$ are flowing.

If a "community leader" gets a say as to what happens on thier server, then so should all paying subscribers currently who have a toon there.... or else the question comes to mind as to how someone qualifies as a "community leader".

As to the rest of your post, the only xfer who has seriously gone out of thier way on E to mess up "the community" and "gank candy mountain" is Thugglife, who is considered a big joke by both freeps and creeps, plus Worgnakh, who rerolled on E, so, the biggest Candy Mountain Ganker, is born and bred on E.

Originally Posted by Cembrye

I understand the frustration. But I think a better solution is to get more Free Peoples out there. Admittedly, this won't be easy. But it can be done.

No matter how many high rank Creeps transfer to server X, the potential pool of Freep 65's is vastly larger. As I see it, there are four main challenges to getting these Free Peoples out:

1. Poor general image of PvP; LOTRO's overall player-base is PvE-oriented and has some deep-rooted aversion to PvP. A lot of this is misinformation and prejudice, but that is enough to make attracting people to Ettenmoors a challenge

2. Ettenmoors is stale: let's face it, Turbine hasn't given us much to work with in terms of attracting people from PvE side; one smallish zone which is basically the same after three years and there is little to no real reason to go there except to fight; they were on the right track when they started doing things like the Amarthiel event, but apparently whoever planned and promoted that has been canned by Turbine since there hasn't been anything since

3. No MP Tutorial or other in-game support; unlike the rest of the game, MP has no tutorial. Every year or so, me or someone else posts on MP forums that we need a basic MP tutorial to attract newcomers. It simply won't do that everyone has to read the forums to find out how the zone works, etc. It's not rocket science, and the tutorial can be very short, but not having one sends a signal that MP is the red-headed stepchild, a fluffed up chicken play that can and should be ignored by the main player base of Free Peoples

4. Need to ensure a friendly and welcoming atmosphere to new players; I have played almost 100 percent Creepside since the start and one of the things that kept spirits up during times like pre-Book 10 was the camaraderie. On Creepside, a function of being the underdog meant that for the most part people worked together. Now I am sure Freepside PvM can and has been like that too. But the point I am making is that if you are on a server that feels overwhelmed by Creeps, especially high-rank Creeps, that is a signal to bend over backwards to make new Freeps feel welcomed.

I am leaving out lag as an issue. That can be a problem if you show up with more Freeps and the server can't handle it. But what can you do? *shrugs*

We have no control over numbers 1-3. But number 4 is something we can control.

It can be done. We just finished a week-long successful (but exhausting) RP/PvM event on Landroval. The Creeps had big numbers but for the most part the Free Peoples matched them. Lag ended up killing off some really epic fights. But this event and the one we did in October 2009 show it can be done.

However it needs to be a community effort, not just a few people. Veteran Freeps need to plan and hold events and be welcoming to newcomers, etc. Over time you can change the dynamics.

I admit to being as frustrated as everyone else. But we are sort of stuck. Turbine won't lift a finger to do even minimal updates to PvM anymore. If anything is to happen, we have to do it ourselves.

Completely agree, the potential pool of freeps eligible for the Moors is humongous... and Turbine does nothing to steer them in the direction of the Moors ... good ideas with a Monster Play Tutorial, I bet they could use Session Play to create a solo instance giving a tour of the zone and the basics of creep classes and pbjectives within the moors and how rank works and such.

Originally Posted by thenoobler

If a "community leader" gets a say as to what happens on thier server, then so should all paying subscribers currently who have a toon there.... or else the question comes to mind as to how someone qualifies as a "community leader".

As to the rest of your post, the only xfer who has seriously gone out of thier way on E to mess up "the community" and "gank candy mountain" is Thugglife, who is considered a big joke by both freeps and creeps, plus Worgnakh, who rerolled on E, so, the biggest Candy Mountain Ganker, is born and bred on E.

There are always gonna be trouble makers and people who aren't happy w/ things so they take it out on other people.

The best thing for us is to learn to rise above it.

Sometimes it gets to the point where it ruins ppls fun. I honestly think that a gm needs to step in 1 a week and check the ooc and servers to see how things are going. It's kinda funny because, in glff, if you get out of line they go nuts. If you are in ooc yelling at each other in the moors no one gives a rats patootie.


I honestly honestly honestly think that the gms/devs need to play pvmp on both sides for more than 1 minute and see what is going on and how devoted their players are.

Originally Posted by Delmore

+ respect to you Alz (even tho i already did) unfortunately Elendilmir creepside sees a lot of the opposite of what you just said. a lot of "I was the king on my server" and "I do things my way" hell, a lot of transfer wargs are trying to bring warg packs like on BW. dont care about the raid leaders, TS, vets, anything. candy mountain is destroyed, The monster manual that we have spent years perfecting is something people dont want to deal with (Hell even the Turbine Devs and community team people read through and use our monster manual, but people just think that they deserve to do things their way and not care about the community we built for 3 years. this isnt all of them. a good amount are great people. but not all of them. I personally wish that Tubine would give the community leaders some say in what happens on their servers. we know it wont happen cause the $$ are flowing.

yea but i remember when moof came to landy, i actually enjoyed his small fellow around the map fights.

i think one thing is i try to find a positive in everything. The real world is sucky, so i guess i am more open to change.

It could just be the artist in me also. People don't ruin a community if you dont let them.

I guess the way i look at it is take the usa, we're a melting pot of society w/ diverse cultures.
Our cultures gain soo much from all the other cultures.

Thats what i look at it as. On creepside, if a person rolls a new creep and ranks in 3 months to red and is from another server how do u know they're not playing on other servers also? you're playing against their playstyle so if they transferred a main over here it would still be them.

See i guess i like meeting new people, and making friends and finding different playstyles because the moors will never change but the ppl always do.

So just try to be positive. turbine hopefully one day will pay attention to the moors.

Originally Posted by Thane9

Lets see, I'll include their spot on our leaderboards too:

1-4: Gii, Moof, Durtz, Torqueo
6: Necksnapper
8-9: Kilcan, Prylor

That's 7 of the top 9 actives btw.

15: Whitestripes
18: Plague

9 creeps all R10 and above. 9 of the 24 R10+s on Landy. That's a HUGE impact.

Let's look at the R9s.

Ishmale, Stickeye, Bealzebub, Maniia

That makes 13 out of the top 45 creeps on Landy are relatively recent transfers.

R8s. I'll cut off at 140k infamy regardless of rank.

Nahkshan, Vulgspewer, Grouber, Xerxsys, Aerther, Purukhai, Tabarrnak, Kevidan, Gutshank

That makes 22 over 140k infamy.

And there's about 7 that I'm uncertain of...the names don't seem to be Landy creeps but I can't say for sure.

Simultaneously there was a HUGE onslaught of new creeps rolled from players from other servers around the same time. Lots of bugs that aren't technically transferrs but were definitely drawn here as more and more creeps came over.

I think it's pretty easy to argue there's a MASSIVE impact when nearly 1/3 of your top power players on one side are new. Just plopped into the game.

I think it's also relatively fair to say R9 is a huge power level for a lot of classes. So the introduction of that many R9s can really swing the balance even in the best of times.

BUT Landy wasn't in the best of times...we were experiencing HUGE creep numbers, and MANY of our top creeps were switching to freepside to "help" make gameplay better.

Look, I don't blame or hold any animosity to those players. But I do agree that the transferrs hurt the game. They hurt our community. And they hurt the balance that our server had.

11 of the names listed were from Arkenstone. While we've lost a huge part of our ranked creeps, we have creeps ranking up fast everyday., swarms of them. 2.5/1 is pretty much the norm most of the time. I sit back and stare at the mob of creeps and can't help but wonder where did they all come from. I can't imagine how onesided the fights would be if our high ranked sigs were still here. Forget about playing your creep if you mainly freep. You'd just be adding one more to the over-populated side and taking one away from the under-populated side.

There has to be a better way to find balance. The pendulum seems to swing too far to one side or the other.

Originally Posted by jennirich

11 of the names listed were from Arkenstone. While we've lost a huge part of our ranked creeps, we have creeps ranking up fast everyday., swarms of them. 2.5/1 is pretty much the norm most of the time. I sit back and stare at the mob of creeps and can't help but wonder where did they all come from. I can't imagine how onesided the fights would be if our high ranked sigs were still here. Forget about playing your creep if you mainly freep. You'd just be adding one more to the over-populated side and taking one away from the under-populated side.

There has to be a better way to find balance. The pendulum seems to swing too far to one side or the other.

It's truly up to the players to find the balance, most are unwilling to switch sides to even out a fight.

Originally Posted by NesterLei

Perhaps some day they will commit a single server for pvmp such that freeps can teleport there whenever they choose. Even better if it were pvmp-only toons where rank gained everyone pvmp-related skills and gear. I'd start over for that.

That would be cool. Larger map. Cool terrain. Better fortifications. I would start from scratch for that.

Originally Posted by Daec

It's truly up to the players to find the balance, most are unwilling to switch sides to even out a fight.

Yep. Silverlode is usually creep heavy. I prefer creepside but have been playing my freeps to help lessen the problem. Being the underdog is more fun than zerging a handful of freeps until they log.