Solution? Modify the basic tactics to create an Archer Tank (AT) for the missile troops. Sure, Hunters are more squishy than your usual Tank choices (Guardian, Champion, Captain), but there's two parts to tanking--getting the mobs attention, and surviving.
...
Again, this is only for those times when the Main Tank can't run out there and aggro those missile troops him/herself. It's a specific suggested modification to the basic tactics, for a specific set of situations. There are others, but you get the idea.
I myself am a big fan of the pull tactics, if you make a few steps back out of the range of the shooters the tank can then run to them, they won't go back.
The only place you cannot do this are areas with short respawns as you'll get mobs attacking you from front and behind if you're not quick enough.
I find that if I see closely packed groups of mixed melee and archers, the thing to do is ranged hit the archers, then break line-of-sight by taking cover at the nearest corner, tree, whatever. This makes them come closer to you, and if done right, the group you pulled of archers and melee will turn the corner and walk right into the main tank and crew eager to put some monsters in the dead-book. Then when youve dealt with them, you get the second group of archers and repeat.
I find that if I see closely packed groups of mixed melee and archers, the thing to do is ranged hit the archers, then break line-of-sight by taking cover at the nearest corner, tree, whatever. This makes them come closer to you, and if done right, the group you pulled of archers and melee will turn the corner and walk right into the main tank and crew eager to put some monsters in the dead-book. Then when youve dealt with them, you get the second group of archers and repeat.
We were using this tactic as described the other night. We were also aggravating the ranged mob like Colfox stated with our "Ranged OffTank". It bought us time to finish off the melee mobs, and take the fight out of range of the archers, and by the time we were ready for them, they are ready to be finished off.
Colfox was with us in that group the other night as well, and we weren't "planning" to coordinate this way, but we realized the the Hunters are good for getting rid of non-elite trash in a hard pull and for quickly getting the ranged attackers off of the Minstrel. I may add a line in the OP regarding Hunter's Modified role as an Offtank.
You both explain other good options. I've been in fellowships using both of these tactics at one time or another. Again, it's all situation-dependent. The main point of my post, was that, like anything in life, once you understand the "basics", you can more easily adapt to unusual situations.
You have to know the "rules" before you can break them.
I noticed you only commented on either a Hunter or MT pulling. I'd like to weigh in on having Loremaster acting as the puller. In my opinion Loremaster is the class best suited to pull in most situations. I enjoy the role and perform it in most of the groups I've been in. I chose Loremaster specifically with this role in mind.
Note, this offered as an alternative to your examples, not an attempt to dictate gameplay.
First I'll describe the skills I use and and then explain why I feel Loremaster is an ideal puller.
Blinding Flash - (level 10) a 30 second mez with a 2 second cast time, a range of 40, and 15 second refresh timer. Undead and Creatures of nature are immune.
Cracked Earth - (level 22) a 3 target AOE dmg spell with two effects. The first is a 10 second debuff vs minstrel dmg songs. When that ends it applies a 30 second root that may break on damage.
I used this pre-36 to pull unmezable encounters (undead and such). The 10 second delay on the root makes it less than ideal as an opening move, it's much better used as either an AOE nuke or backup to Herb-lore
Herb-lore - (level 36) a 3 target (8 with trait) AOE root with a 30 second duration. Range 40, refresh timer 1 minute. May break on damage.
Unlike "Cracked Earth" this root lands instantly and the ability to hit 8 targets can be quite valuable. When coupled with "Call to the Valar" (level 34, resets skill timers) and "Cracked Earth" I can root 3 mobs for 1 minute and 30 seconds.
My primary roles as a Loremaster are CC and debuffs. Simply put I reduce the difficulty of the fight by reducing or eliminating incoming damage. I can also effectivly reduce "minstrel aggro" three different ways. First by debuffing active mobs. Second by spot healing. And most effectivly by breaking the encounter into seperate parts via CC.
By using mez to pull with I generate the initial aggro and can hold it on the CC'd mobs. I can mez two mobs, root an additional three, and have the pet offtank a sixth while the MT and DPSers handel the pack.
Now normally I won't try to hold 6 mobs by myself. Typicaly I open with mez, usually boss, healer, then ranged attacker in order of importance. Then, if here isn't a second ranged mob, I'll stun one of the incoming melee mobs to seperate it from the pack. Pulling with mez generates relativly low aggro so the MT can usually grab the melee aggro right away (I always stand on top of the tank when pulling).
I'll then back away from the pack so I can mez the mob I stunned, which should be almost on top of me. This lets me seperate both mezed mobs from the stack, so the rest of the group is free to use AOE. Trying to mez a mob in the stack is just a waste of a mez. I'll then focus on reapplying mez, debuffing/dpsing and spot healing while the mez timers tick.
Most of the time I can do this without needing a heal or generating huge amounts of hate. Meaning the MT should be able to taunt off me relativly easily, and more importantly none of those mobs are generating any hate against the healer.
This signifigantly reduces the risk of the minstrel peels and group wipes. As CC/puller I can make the best use of my skills while allowing the rest of the group to freely focus on burning down the stack of active mobs without worring about breaking my cc, something that can be much more difficult if another class is pulling.
That being said other classes can be capable pullers. The most important parts of pulling is understanding how the game plays, understanding the abilities of your group, communicating well, and being comfortable in the role.
The fexibility of group make up is one of the great things about this game. Any group of 6 co-ordinated players can accomplish most of the content in game without needing a specific class.
Most of the time I can do this without needing a heal or generating huge amounts of hate. Meaning the MT should be able to taunt off me relativly easily, and more importantly none of those mobs are generating any hate against the healer.
The Minstrel will still get Healing aggro while things are mezzed or stunned. It's a nature of the system. Just because he doesn't heal you, he is still getting aggro by healing the Tank.
The flexibility of group make up is one of the great things about this game. Any group of 6 co-ordinated players can accomplish most of the content in game without needing a specific class.
Your last sentence sums up the things I like about the game. These roles are generic, and can be filled by many classes. Colfox has been our group's Main Healer in a pinch, in the GA instance no less, and I've tanked and pulled on many occasions as a burglar when our usual tanks aren't around.
Personally, I'm not a fan of Loremasters or Minstrels pulling for the same reason I don't prefer a Hunter to pull. I like the MT to immediately have aggro and a full grasp of the situation. If the MT and the CC are communicating the order of kill/mezz like I say in the second post, then it doesn't matter who pulls. Our CC will land a perfectly timed mezz on the boss every time.
Last edited by Surlek2112; Jun 25 2007 at 01:33 PM.
<quote>-MA has MT targeted, when he notices movement of the Mobs, MA hits "F"...thus allowing him to switch to /assist MT. Do not use the “pass-through assist” as the MA on the MT. He needs to switch targets as needed, pass-thru assist will force you to switch with him, and that is not ideal. If you use "F" with the MT targeted, then your target becomes the first mob the MT hit...and when he is pulling, that is the first Target to die.
-MA keeps attacking the pulled target only, thus allowing everyone else to either Pass-thru target on him, or have him selected and hit F. It is simple...if you are not MA, then you have MA targeted during a pull. (except CC, I’ll get to him in a sec) <quote>
If you "attack" a fellowship member, and you have the relevant option box checked (which it seems to be by default), it is as if you are attacking whoever that fellowship member is attacking.
Any and all updates to this will be taken care of in the Lorebook entry from now on. If anyone still has anything to add, PM me, or reply here still if you so desire.
Junior Member Online status:
Reputation:
Originally Posted by Colfox
Senior Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Poster of Note Online status:
Reply With Quote
Posting Permissions
