Thread: Do away with death count

This brilliant idea came to me from one my kinsmen (thank you Bam). Just do away with counting deaths, it would reduce hugging and the overall generally defensive play you see out in the moors way too often.

I suggest doing away with Deaths and K/D ratio.

Now that we have removed those, what would be some cooler stats to have in your wartab?

Average enemy rank defeated
Average kills per day

Any others you'd rather see?

No...

Words

Defensive play is fun. Take the aggressive playstyle away. Severely penalize people for dying way too much.

Originally Posted by olagaton

Defensive play is fun. Take the aggressive playstyle away.

No.


moar wurdz

Originally Posted by olagaton

Defensive play is fun. Take the aggressive playstyle away. Severely penalize people for dying way too much.

This.

Renown/infamy should be based off your Rank vs the Rank you defeat. Not Rating. Rating is too easily manipulated, up or down. Also add in a Diminishing Return for killing the same player several times

Why would you penalize for aggressive play? It makes no sense. So you want every battle to be npc stare-offs?

The real problem is rating, not so much death count, but it's part of it too.

Originally Posted by olagaton

Defensive play is fun. Take the aggressive playstyle away. Severely penalize people for dying way too much.

Yes I suppose we will just have to get rid of all melee classes as well or they might be tempted to NOT stand around and do nothing, The moors need to be 10 times more boring than they are now!....wow that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard

nuke rating and deaths = reduce bickering of people saying i'm better then you cause my k/d or renown/d or kb/d is better! seriously Stats mean jack you can be the best player and have low kbs or low renown per death. People just gotta stop measuring themselves by the numbers rather how well you are respected in your community, if other people say you're good then you are good. Numbers don't mean anything.

Originally Posted by olagaton

Defensive play is fun. Take the aggressive playstyle away. Severely penalize people for dying way too much.

I'm very thankful you are not a dev.

Originally Posted by Daec

No...

Words

keep on huggin' those keeps then.

Starhuggers are the reason this game's pvp sucks.

I'd like to have everyone with 1,750+ rating on the same server. That would be some AWESOME pvmp...




...not.

Originally Posted by slyboogy

Starhuggers are the reason this game's pvp sucks.

Omg rofl! You're a funny guy.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

I'd like to have everyone with 1,750+ rating on the same server. That would be some AWESOME pvmp...




...not.

Whats around with 1,750+ You an EASILY get that without "Star Hugging" It's called playing smart and not running into situations you know you will lose.

Originally Posted by nolins12

The moors need to be 10 times more boring than they are now!....wow that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard

Yes. I completely disagree with the OP. I particularly like to watch my death count....it shows me how much renown I am getting versus how much they are getting from killing me.

Plus, rating means so very very little.

And you need aggressive playstyles in the moors. One side must be aggressive...if both sides play defense....*yawn*.

No, people would still hug anyways.

They should also put stars back in, because taking them out did absolutely nothing as far as hugging goes. And, what they should also do, is as you get higher rank, its harder to lose rating and easier to gain rating. This would not really go into effect until at least rank 8.

I personally believe that "star-hugging" would be apart of a certain playstyle the person has chosen to use. Whether or not you remove K/D Ratios or Death counts, they're always going to play that way. [Keep it]
I like the idea about the average rank defeated. Good job!

Reward players with aggressive playstyle, 'tis all.

pfft , without star huggers my wargie would not have the stat

Highest Rating Defeated : 2000

:-)

Originally Posted by snarfy

Whats around with 1,750+ You an EASILY get that without "Star Hugging" It's called playing smart and not running into situations you know you will lose.

If both sides do this there wont be a fight cause someone always loses lol

Originally Posted by olagaton

Defensive play is fun. Take the aggressive playstyle away. Severely penalize people for dying way too much.

Then everyone else could feel the pain we've been feeling for the past 2 years. Hahahahah, I can see the forums posts now. I would love for this to happen

Originally Posted by snarfy

Omg rofl! You're a funny guy.





Whats around with 1,750+ You an EASILY get that without "Star Hugging" It's called playing smart and not running into situations you know you will lose.

I just picked a random number. Sometimes when you die you can lose like 100 rating. So if you are at ~1850 and die it can bring ya down a bunch. My point was...if you put all the start huggers on the same server than it would be hella boring. I think the server might manage 3 kills per day.

Originally Posted by snarfy

Whats around with 1,750+ You an EASILY get that without "Star Hugging" It's called playing smart and not running into situations you know you will lose.

... Which is why it would make for some AWESOME pvmp...



... not.

How does someone dying a lot benefit them?

Feeder Creeps are the reason this game's pvp sucks.

i think most ppl dont like to get deaths cause if they are dead, they are prolly loosing out on renown/infamy have to retreat/ride back to where ever and get ganked on the way by wargs/burgs.

the rating system isnt perfect, you can loose alot of rating really fast, but its that way to help minimize farming the same dude over and over or make killing greenies less worthwhile. if you get killed alot, your rating goes down and the person killing you over and over gets less and less renown/infamy. this doesnt stop ppl from farming greenies or rez camping though. at the other end of the spectrum it basically puts a bounty on any star huggers head wich is a good thing.

attaching any value to how many stars someone has is stupid though because it has no bearing on skill, it really means nothing at all. some WL or defiler that sits at the back of a raid and never solos is gonna have a high rating but that doesnt mean they are skilled. they best thing to remember is that chances are a star hugger is loosing out on renown/infamy because they are less likely to take a risk and get the extra kill.

Originally Posted by Toranoga

How does someone dying a lot benefit them?

Feeder Creeps are the reason this game's pvp sucks.

Ratio of feeders to huggers?

I tend to see more huggers on windy, and my experience is that as long as you get at least one kill for your death, or close to,(or really awesome battles even if you are losing) It is not feeding.

Which game with pvp doesnt have "feeders"?
Does this make every game's pvp suck?

I 100% agree with eliminating the death count. Or at least have it reset monthly, quarterly or something. It needs to be made non-permanent. It's the only real negative stat that gets tracked

Rating can fluctuate through out the life of a creep. If you are just messing around with friends you're rating can drop and if the game didn't keep track of deaths it wouldn't matter. If you decide rating matters to you could spend some time getting that rating back up. As it stands right now those deaths will always be there. And I'm sure there will be plenty of people that will always want to have a high rating, it's just the nature of competitive play.

I can say from personal experience when I played my Warg more. The incrementing my death count number was more frustrating that losing rating. Now I'm playing my Reaver more and I'm enjoying the game a lot more since I'm just focused on getting kills and getting inf.

It would be hilarious to have a PvP server called "Starhugger".

Originally Posted by Untg99

Why would you penalize for aggressive play? It makes no sense. So you want every battle to be npc stare-offs?

The real problem is rating, not so much death count, but it's part of it too.

The real problem is apathy. People die because they don't care. If they cared, if there was a penalty for death, people would actually have to communicate with each other, come up with legitimate strategies, and think about the repercussions of their actions. As it stands now, all we see in PvMP is bind rush zerg feeding -- boring, no skill, no strategy involved, no penalties, no fun.

Originally Posted by scogmyster

I'm very thankful you are not a dev.

I'm very thankful star-haters aren't dev's.

Originally Posted by slyboogy

Starhuggers are the reason this game's pvp sucks.

Apathetic players are the reason this game's PvP sucks.

Originally Posted by Miker1060

Reward players with aggressive playstyle, 'tis all.

No thanks.

Originally Posted by chosen2

Then everyone else could feel the pain we've been feeling for the past 2 years. Hahahahah, I can see the forums posts now. I would love for this to happen

At the very least, they might gain an appreciation for how much time, effort, and discipline goes into such a playstyle. It's one of those things where most people think they could endure such a playstyle, but when it really came down to actually playing like it, most would fall extremely short.

Its pretty tough to get kills when your always in the rez. More stats on the warpage would be nice though good idea. Removing the ones that are already there would suck.

Originally Posted by olagaton

At the very least, they might gain an appreciation for how much time, effort, and discipline goes into such a playstyle. It's one of those things where most people think they could endure such a playstyle, but when it really came down to actually playing like it, most would fall extremely short.

Starhugging is boring iv tried it got to 1600 rating on my guard in about 3 hours. Its not about skill at all its just about choosing when to engage, as i said earlier if people played like starhugger only engaging in fights they knew they would win there would be no fights because there would always be one side who knew they couldn't win so they would not engage.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

I'd like to have everyone with 1,750+ rating on the same server. That would be some AWESOME pvmp...




...not.

Lol

Freeps will never leave ec and gv. Creeps will never leave TA.

Let's just get the existing bugs fixed.

Originally Posted by Assassin12

Starhugging is boring

I disagree. We obviously have different experiences.

its just about choosing when to engage,

Yep, it's called strategy.

Originally Posted by Assassin12

Starhugging is boring iv tried it got to 1600 rating on my guard in about 3 hours. Its not about skill at all its just about choosing when to engage, as i said earlier if people played like starhugger only engaging in fights they knew they would win there would be no fights because there would always be one side who knew they couldn't win so they would not engage.

1.600 rating is noob rating. Anyone can get that in a simple ammount of time if they choose to go afk during a keep fight. When you get up to the 1900 point and it takes a bunch of kills to get a point. (well at least back in the day it used to take 10 solo kills to get 1 rating point after 1.975). If you can hit 5 stars legit on any of your toons i'd be impressed. All you know to do on your guard is see a creep and pop charge and stagger. Then you run away and let the raid take care of it.

Originally Posted by chosen2

1.600 rating is noob rating. Anyone can get that in a simple ammount of time if they choose to go afk during a keep fight. When you get up to the 1900 point and it takes a bunch of kills to get a point. (well at least back in the day it used to take 10 solo kills to get 1 rating point after 1.975). If you can hit 5 stars legit on any of your toons i'd be impressed. All you know to do on your guard is see a creep and pop charge and stagger. Then you run away and let the raid take care of it.

Lol your funny.

Wait this is a joke right?

Originally Posted by chosen2

1.600 rating is noob rating. Anyone can get that in a simple ammount of time if they choose to go afk during a keep fight.

My favorite quote from a star-hugger thus far. How does one gain infamy/renoun to get their rating up if they are AFK? Only way is a lot of leeching in a group/raid which you contributed absolutely nothing to. And I thought star-huggers talked about skill when getting their stars/rating up high...lol.

No, simply because I'm really quite proud of my death count. I like watching it go up, I like having little goals to achieve. 8,000 here I come!

Originally Posted by Spacmanbobr

No, people would still hug anyways.

They should also put stars back in, because taking them out did absolutely nothing as far as hugging goes. And, what they should also do, is as you get higher rank, its harder to lose rating and easier to gain rating. This would not really go into effect until at least rank 8.

i agree, i think it only encouraged people to hug more do the fact that people would never know unless by forum sig, so its just way easier to get away with it

Originally Posted by Assassin12

Lol your funny.

Wait this is a joke right?

Is it a joke because I'm right? People get rating all the time. If your a burg, hunter, warg, or a spider you can easily sit there stealth and do nothing to get rating.

All it takes is a nice keep fight where the opposite side is constantly charging.

@ the other noob, 3 stars is nothing. Getting rating by raiding doesn't mean anything at all, which was the point I was making at stabbi who said he hit 3 and it was stupid.

Originally Posted by olagaton

I disagree. We obviously have different experiences.


Yep, it's called strategy.

The only way I can choose when to engage is if I never leave GV until I see someone I want to fight standing there. Apparently my Dwarf Stealth is broken.

I don't care about dying because at the times I play the creeps generally outnumber the freeps. Obviously there are exceptions. Anyway, if I only have a half hour to pvp I am not going to waste it sitting around a keep or GV waiting for a lone creep to walk past that I can engage. I ride around the map looking for small groups or solo creeps, I often get caught by groups too big for me to handle, so I try to kill one or two before I die.

If there were penalties for dying then freeps on my server would just sit around GV without fighting the usual Creep zerg, until we had our own zerg, which would make the creeps go back to Grams till they increased their zerg and so on. This happens on a smaller scale now, but creating penalties for dying would just increase the waiting out there.

Of course, I also don't advocate getting rid of the death count. I figure if you want to show it off, go ahead and star-hug, I will fight you with your cooldowns up. If you are like me and don't really care, just have fun playing the game without worrying about how it looks. If someone thinks they are better than me because they have died less, good for them. =)