Thread: My question to all the transfers past and present

Originally Posted by Danaca

You can still do the slow-and-steady on defilers though! I made it through 2 (accidental, I believe) CJs from Trin yesterday outside of HH before other creeps randomly showed up and she, you know, Trinstar'ed. I am going to start using that as a verb.

Defilers are IMHO what healing classes should be in the moors.

Dangerous only over time + tough as hell to bring down fast.

In fact, WLs are not a bad example of this either albeit in a very different way.

But unfortunately freepside healing is not like that, due in large part to the MoM/SoM combat mechanics.

like i said these are how i do things myself.. i cant say they work for everyone.

If i camped near rez, i got chastized, if i camp grams i get zerged... if i stay too long in one place...

i have ways i do things for my own personal goals.

Yea certain things are also situational.

Originally Posted by Thane9

Defilers are IMHO what healing classes should be in the moors.

Dangerous only over time + tough as hell to bring down fast.

In fact, WLs are not a bad example of this either albeit in a very different way.

But unfortunately freepside healing is not like that, due in large part to the MoM/SoM combat mechanics.

I agree with you. Slow and steady is about all a WL can do. I get aroused when I crit for 500.

I dismounted Jaiyne who was lagging behind the raid a little bit last night - and got absolutely destroyed. /shakefist

Originally Posted by lebleh

I can safely brag that there is no Warg on this server / Malicious even him now with my weapons that can defeat me in a 1v1 with my Cooldowns.

lol

I don't know about that...

And Luc... 50/50, huh?

lol were ur blinders on ? :P

Originally Posted by lebleh

Luc i don't count cooldowns in the scheme of balance. I can safely brag that there is no Warg on this server / Malicious even him now with my weapons that can defeat me in a 1v1 with my Cooldowns.

I however do wish to continue soloing after i busted 15 minutes worth of cooldowns.
While saying this I have some of the best gear in the game and i consider myself rank 5'ish strength without cooldowns, needless to say when i'm on my reaver and I see new freeps who think coming out with 4k health allows them to pvp is heart breaking. And we sit their asking why we don't have enough freeps. Go figure.

I agree. And IMHO a PERFECT set bonus for PvMP Champ gear would be reductions to our cooldowns. Something that by R15 meant we pretty much had no cooldown on CB in the moors.

But even lowering our Dire Need/Adamant/Sudden Defense cooldowns would be huge. Add a small reduction to the CB cooldown...maybe the first of which at R9 and Champs would potentially become pretty threatening.

Oh and I'm in favour of:

> a R1-R6 set that is pretty equivalent to top end PvE gear but with no radiance and PvMP centric extras.

>a R7-R12 set that is vastly superiour to PvE gear and offers significant upgrades to not only PvMP centric extras but our raw stats and

>a R13-R15 set where you get two pieces per rank and the bonuses are very significant. Imagine R9 Uruk heal type of stuff.

>And a massive upgrade to our rank cloaks. Where after R5 or so you'd be dumb to not be wearing it because it'd be better than PvE stuff.

ALL of which should be PvMP usable only, except cosmetically.

Oh and it should have NO cost except attaining the appropriate rank.

oh noes champ talk!:P.

Originally Posted by The_Observer

lol

I don't know about that...

And Luc... 50/50, huh?

With my cooldowns? Absolutely.

Although there are things that wargs specifically can do...if they leave/reenter the fight that I see as problematic. But those ALSO give a smart fighter a chance to get away.

But yeah, with all my cooldowns I feel like I have a pretty good shot at winning any fight. The dependance on cooldowns is UGLY though.

I can't wait till R15 and I can pop my insignia in combat though. hehe....only 10 more years...

Zerging is caused by population imbalance. Creeps are simply more effective at it because they can call in airstrikes, quickly. When you've got 20 freeps on the map, in a group, and 50 creeps on the map, there's going to be a lot of creeps walking around looking for fights.

When people go 15-20 minutes without any action, they're dying for anything. People from all over will map in at the mention of a freep, just for some action, any action. People roaming the common areas will attack immediately, even if its already 3 on 1, because they're itching for any action. If it gets to 4-1 or 5-1, they don't care anymore, because its already so imbalanced, may as well get in there.

Zerging is caused by population imbalance and the resulting lack of action for a lot of players.

Originally Posted by Pallora

Zerging is caused by population imbalance. Creeps are simply more effective at it because they can call in airstrikes, quickly. When you've got 20 freeps on the map, in a group, and 50 creeps on the map, there's going to be a lot of creeps walking around looking for fights.

When people go 15-20 minutes without any action, they're dying for anything. People from all over will map in at the mention of a freep, just for some action, any action. People roaming the common areas will attack immediately, even if its already 3 on 1, because they're itching for any action. If it gets to 4-1 or 5-1, they don't care anymore, because its already so imbalanced, may as well get in there.

Zerging is caused by population imbalance and the resulting lack of action for a lot of players.

I respectfully disagree.

I concede fully that it is exacerbated by population imbalances.

But I do not see that it's caused by population imbalance.

There have been times in the past couple weeks where the freeps outnumbered the creeps but I was swarmed just as much.

And even if population imbalance was the cause...just for sake of argument...there's no "fix" for population imbalance that people want to accept. More freeps would just mean population imbalace the other direction.

The root cause, and the solution, lies in examining the motivations of the players. And motivations CAN be shifted by changing the risk/reward balance and offering alternative options.

----

Furthermore, I'd suggest a lot of "zerging" fights aren't even PvMP. They're just riskless, facerolling. Which could easily be gotten in PvE side killing greys.

There's a need out there that isn't being fulfilled when people zerg. I believe that people don't like being swarmed by overwhelming numbers. But more importantly I believe MOST people don't like swarming with overwhelming numbers.

So the question needs to be "why".

Sure there are some ******* out there that do it purposefully and with glee.

But it's my opinion that the majority of people would rather have a "good fight."

And IMHO that IS possible even when the populations are skewed.

people can make up for the mechanics they choose not to.

Originally Posted by Thane9

With my cooldowns? Absolutely.

Although there are things that wargs specifically can do...if they leave/reenter the fight that I see as problematic. But those ALSO give a smart fighter a chance to get away.

But yeah, with all my cooldowns I feel like I have a pretty good shot at winning any fight. The dependance on cooldowns is UGLY though.

I can't wait till R15 and I can pop my insignia in combat though. hehe....only 10 more years...

Well, see, with your CDs, sure.

But then if I have my CDs...

I think you and I have tangled enough to know that I know your CDs well enough to use my CDs appropriately.

The largest caveat I face, and I've learned this with you, if I blow Sprint to catch you off your mount. Later when you attempt to get away because I'm letting your CDs expire, I have no way of catching you.

If I have all my CDs, and I count my brand as one (as I'm sure you're counting Man-Heal), the best you can hope for is the opportunity to get away.

The reason I say this is not to brag, but because of what I'm about to say next:

Frankly, it does make me sad. I don't feel like I should be able to nom a champ as easy as I can, so I do like seeing your above comments about champ improvements.

Originally Posted by Annunlos

I still want my warg to be brought DOWN to the burg's level! ROFL, god thats sooo hard to say with a straight face.

I think you pulled it off! Really believable! And if you mean brought down to burg like Echlon or Trinstar, well ok. But don't ever wish to be brought down to *my* burg level, because I suck like a Dyson.

The only thing that makes me sad is that 4/5 of the top 5 creeps in terms of infamy at the moment are not "home grown."

Originally Posted by Radardog

The only thing that makes me sad is that 4/5 of the top 5 creeps in terms of infamy at the moment are not "home grown."

And of the top 10, only 2 "Landroval Creeps" (Tip and Gobble) even play anymore.

That actually bothers me too.

Originally Posted by Warluk

I dismounted Jaiyne who was lagging behind the raid a little bit last night - and got absolutely destroyed. /shakefist

Heh. I wasn't in the raid at this point, but I was following them until 2 spots opened up. I was actually really happy to fight you - and as I said in kinchat, I wouldn't say you got destroyed at all. I would say that I got lucky on no resists on my interrupts.

Then a bunch of Agony creepsies came to eat me after I killed you.

Oh wait, we're talking about transfers? I like them Except Necksnapper...and that's because his name completely freaks me out

Oh and minstrels can solo just fine on this server if you're patient, Alz. If you get zerged 5/6 times, that 1 fight is still completely worth it.

Originally Posted by Zzyn

I think you pulled it off! Really believable! And if you mean brought down to burg like Echlon or Trinstar, well ok. But don't ever wish to be brought down to *my* burg level, because I suck like a Dyson.

I think you don't suck at all. Thats because you spill dust everywhere.

For people to drop money to transfer is cool, we're doing something right imo.

Now if we could just slow down the dps for longer battles, that would be delicious.

Meep

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Heh. I wasn't in the raid at this point, but I was following them until 2 spots opened up. I was actually really happy to fight you - and as I said in kinchat, I wouldn't say you got destroyed at all. I would say that I got lucky on no resists on my interrupts.

Then a bunch of Agony creepsies came to eat me after I killed you.

Oh wait, we're talking about transfers? I like them Except Necksnapper...and that's because his name completely freaks me out

Oh and minstrels can solo just fine on this server if you're patient, Alz. If you get zerged 5/6 times, that 1 fight is still completely worth it.

Oh , i know, but i attribute a lot of it to how i feel. I hate running and i hate riding around for an hour. I guess i lack patience when i got sick this year .

Part of it i guess changed things for myself how i do things. Maybe not for the best, but i do what i can when i can.

Originally Posted by romoen

And of the top 10, only 2 "Landroval Creeps" (Tip and Gobble) even play anymore.

That actually bothers me too.

seems like we are losing more and more of the top notch and higher ranked creeps and freeps due to many reasons... just hope something is done soon to the moors to help stop some of them from leaving and hopefully bring a few of them back... seriously tho to get this back on topic.. numbers aren't really the issue here its the zerging plain and simple... I know I saw two creeps fighting one freep yesterday I made myself visible on my warg and then stealthed back up and just left to settle it out on their own.. have run into a few 1vs1 where I made myself visible and just watched... yes everyone wants to rank and do so asap.. but some times sitting back and not getting involved when the fight is even.. a 1vs1 etc is the better decision to make.

now not gonna say that I avoid all of them as I don't.. do know a few peeps freep and creepside that don't like to 1vs1 and if I see them engaged I will interact and do what I can to help em out.

I'm going to start to roleplay a transfer. I just need to get a storyline set up.

I'm not sure what I am to be honest. I have PvP'd extensively on other servers. Rolled a RK on Landy in MoM 2.7 so my toon is 100% home grown. I'm not really a transfer, but I'm also not a denizen from the Landy SoA period when many of the old school bonds were formed. Just call me a Mutt...

Originally Posted by sebo2yoface

*sigh* i miss the old landy...dont mean to offend the transfers but this server is gonna end up like the elendilmir aka zerg fest...

Statements like this puzzle me. I have been PvPing on Landy since level 50 MoM 2.7. I have never seen a zergless Landroval Moors. Even before SoM, the zergs were out in force, on both sides. I would say you must be referring to SoA, but I have seen statements by Landroval veterans that claim SoA was zerg heavy as well.

SoM just exacerbated the negative side of this playstyle because it created an imbalance in favor of the Creeps (CJs, increased Morale, etc.). Flippers (players who take the easy road and roll on the side with the perceived advantage) simply migrated to Creepside en masse and facerolling ensued.

So to clarify, the zergs did indeed exist on Landy before the transfers came here. This zerging did not become facerolling until after SoM when home grown Landy players began flipping in large amounts to Creepside creating a population imbalance.

While I applaud many of the Landy Vets that are out there every night fighting the good fight; namely Trinstar, Leekae, Luc, Budhorn, etc., there are other veteran players, like you Swifteye for example, that have been decidedly absent for the majority of this time. The time for Freeps to step up is now. Pointing fingers at strange Creeps, or other perceived "strangers," really accomplishes nothing.

Toally random selection - after excluding 2 other servers.

Originally Posted by Thieron

I know right? I would like to welcome the new toolbag transfer to the Moors...Necksnapper-1. He has brought **** up to his elbows stuck on his shoes. I hope he is one of the Moof-1 transfers because it just proves to me that transfers are a bad idea, and they bring the wrong vibe to Landy.

As Sid said, he didn't xfer from E. I'd suggest you give the guy a chance and evaluate him on his behaviour on this server and not what's happened in the past on another server or what you've read or heard. Just a suggestion. So far he seems like a fairly reasonable guy, for an aussie :P

Originally Posted by Moofer

Toally random selection - after excluding 2 other servers.



As Sid said, he didn't xfer from E. I'd suggest you give the guy a chance and evaluate him on his behaviour on this server and not what's happened in the past on another server or what you've read or heard. Just a suggestion. So far he seems like a fairly reasonable guy, for an aussie :P

honestly have talked to alot of the transfers and find em pretty decent peeps and the ones I haven't had a chance to talk to yet well hopefully you will be decent as well.. I don't see an issue or have an issue with peeps transferring to landy.. in all honesty I think it will bring a new dimension to whats already here... meaning new strategies.. different play styles etc.. looking forward to it myself

I'd say everyone should try something different in PvMP.

Fighting style, location, class, etc.



But people are sheep who follow the loudest voice.

That and they don't like to break habits.

Originally Posted by Anarionadama

I'd say everyone should try something different in PvMP.

Fighting style, location, class, etc.



But people are sheep who follow the loudest voice.

That and they don't like to break habits.

thinking you hit part of the nail on the head there... people are creatures of habit.. meaning if they get into the routine of running to stab, ec, where ever it is they go.. well thats what they are more then likely to do... it's breaking these habits that is gonna be tough and by breaking these habits is how we are gonna make things more interesting to say the least.

Originally Posted by Moofer

As Sid said, he didn't xfer from E. I'd suggest you give the guy a chance and evaluate him on his behaviour on this server and not what's happened in the past on another server or what you've read or heard. Just a suggestion. So far he seems like a fairly reasonable guy, for an aussie :P

I personally, with my own two eyes, saw him pop Dying Rage 4 times, turn and sprint away to avoid anyone getting any renown from his death.

Is it a Reaver skill? Yes.
Did he earn it by achieving R9? Yes.
Does it seem lame to be used this way? Yes.

I'm going to continue to "give the guy a chance and evaluate him on his behaviour" but my opinion of him was swayed by what I saw yesterday.

A reaver with a morale build who is really good at charging in killing a weak target and running away.

Granted, this is an effective and common reaver playstyle. But as a player who has a reaver and knows exactly how tough they can be in the hands of a competant player I'm just not impressed by it.

/shrug

Time will tell.

Originally Posted by wd_1173

in all honesty I think it will bring a new dimension to whats already here... meaning new strategies.. different play styles etc.. looking forward to it myself

I agree with this in theory.

But all I'm seeing is our server trending towards MORE zerging and not less.

What if these "new strategies" and "different playstyles" just exacerbate the problems of Landy instead of making them better?

This is my concern.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Heh. I wasn't in the raid at this point, but I was following them until 2 spots opened up.

That explains it. I couldn't believe the raid hung you out to dry like that.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

I was actually really happy to fight you - and as I said in kinchat, I wouldn't say you got destroyed at all. I would say that I got lucky on no resists on my interrupts.

Then a bunch of Agony creepsies came to eat me after I killed you.

It was a fun fight. I was narrating it over voice, and when that champ (I think) started to act like he might jump in (with the trees he brought with him, heh) a few started to head that way. I'm glad we got to finish our fight first though.

Originally Posted by Thane9

I agree with this in theory.

But all I'm seeing is our server trending towards MORE zerging and not less.

What if these "new strategies" and "different playstyles" just exacerbate the problems of Landy instead of making them better?

This is my concern.

well know for a fact some of the transfers are small group creeps and try to avoid the zerg...but ya I do see your point there too... guessing we all gotta make the moors what we want out of it.. meaning we all control our toons and it's in our hands on how the moors goes.

Originally Posted by wd_1173

thinking you hit part of the nail on the head there... people are creatures of habit.. meaning if they get into the routine of running to stab, ec, where ever it is they go.. well thats what they are more then likely to do... it's breaking these habits that is gonna be tough and by breaking these habits is how we are gonna make things more interesting to say the least.

Yep. I'm too crazy not to. Like sitting in front of Grams for a full 15 minutes and seeing NOTHING to kill.

Originally Posted by Thane9

I agree with this in theory.

But all I'm seeing is our server trending towards MORE zerging and not less.

What if these "new strategies" and "different playstyles" just exacerbate the problems of Landy instead of making them better?

This is my concern.

How many have been tried?

Originally Posted by Anarionadama

I'd say everyone should try something different in PvMP.

Fighting style, location, class, etc.



But people are sheep who follow the loudest voice.

That and they don't like to break habits.

alot of creeps do play different classes... I for one have a ba as well.. and well he seems a lil squishy right now...lol... now I know how the hunters feel... seriously tho, don't think it's so much the fighting style, classes, etc.. as it is the locations.. what has got to be done to avoid zergs is to try and avoid map in areas, and we all know thats harder to do then it sounds.. but there are areas on the map where the fights can occur that aren't near a map in.. sure they're in the middle of no where but better then having an air strike called in on ya if ya ask me.

Originally Posted by wd_1173

alot of creeps do play different classes... I for one have a ba as well.. and well he seems a lil squishy right now...lol... now I know how the hunters feel... seriously tho, don't think it's so much the fighting style, classes, etc.. as it is the locations.. what has got to be done to avoid zergs is to try and avoid map in areas, and we all know thats harder to do then it sounds.. but there are areas on the map where the fights can occur that aren't near a map in.. sure they're in the middle of no where but better then having an air strike called in on ya if ya ask me.

Well, it's not that hard, I just find that on both sides people stop and smell the roses too much. Hunter tracks, people catching up, etc. Location is very much so going to affect a fight ( I find most are afraid of fights that don't have NPCs within visual range), but as always, it's a combination of habits: location, who you're with, how you fight, if you use a horse, etc. People have their own little quirks when they play and that is more apart of Gameplay than most realize.

It's not like zerging is anything new on Landroval, blaming transfers for that makes no sense.

I enjoy seeing them out there. I don't think I've ever seen Moof and co running with more than 10-12, but they do tend to roam in a very small area of the moors, so inevitably they'll sometimes pile up with other small groups and half raids out there.

But, I do miss our old creeps too Makes me look forward to Sunday nights, when the few that remain always seem to come out.

Originally Posted by Trinstar

It's not like zerging is anything new on Landroval, blaming transfers for that makes no sense.

I agree. There's no BLAME.

But lets be honest. It isn't helping the zergy nature of the moors when more creeps start playing. More ranked creeps. More creeps who come in pre-made groups who don't typically break up. And more creeps who play regularly, not just people jumping on to see what the PvMP thing is all about.

Are they to blame? No.

Are they part of the problem? Ahhh...now there's where there is a point to be examined.

Originally Posted by RathanTyr-Valen

My suggestion again would be not to feed the transfers. If you see the pop buff or a bunch of Spewers or -1's or whatever, take a break. Leave the Moors.

I find it kind of funny that the spewers are being cast as transfers. To my knowledge none of us spewers transferred a greenie spider to Landy, they were all rolled and grown here.

Are we players from a different server, yes and we came here because we found the play style to be more entertaining. We don't join the large zerg raids as we prefer to keep our groups small. Will we "zerg" a solo freep if he/she is unsuspecting enough to walk over a burrow... yes. But how is this different than the 5-6 man groups roaming the map picking off the solo creep quietly farming mats. Personally I love it, adds a sense of impending doom as no place is safe

Anyway, I’d hate to see all the freeps log every time a group of 4 or more of us were on but to each their own.

Happy hunting all and make sure you watch where you step, you never know what may be lurking below

Originally Posted by RathanTyr-Valen

It is very sad really. We have a great community on Landy overall. And we will survive the invasion.

My suggestion again would be not to feed the transfers. If you see the pop buff or a bunch of Spewers or -1's or whatever, take a break. Leave the Moors. Go level your LI, craft some food and potions, etc. Just let them have the map. Eventually, they will (hopefully) get bored and go back to whatever hole they crawled out of.

Again someone in this thread explain to me how anyone from another server has caused the problem? If anything I see ~less~ creep zerging.

So someone explain where they are seeing more? Am I not playing enough?

Originally Posted by wd_1173

alot of creeps do play different classes... I for one have a ba as well.. and well he seems a lil squishy right now...lol... now I know how the hunters feel... seriously tho, don't think it's so much the fighting style, classes, etc.. as it is the locations.. what has got to be done to avoid zergs is to try and avoid map in areas, and we all know thats harder to do then it sounds.. but there are areas on the map where the fights can occur that aren't near a map in.. sure they're in the middle of no where but better then having an air strike called in on ya if ya ask me.

We all play different classes. While some of us have reset several R5 alts

Originally Posted by RathanTyr-Valen

It is very sad really. We have a great community on Landy overall. And we will survive the invasion.

My suggestion again would be not to feed the transfers. If you see the pop buff or a bunch of Spewers or -1's or whatever, take a break. Leave the Moors. Go level your LI, craft some food and potions, etc. Just let them have the map. Eventually, they will (hopefully) get bored and go back to whatever hole they crawled out of.

dunno why peeps keep calling it an invasion.. a few creeps transferred big deal its actually a good thing for the moors for the most part... as far as leaving the moors if I see the spewers or a -1 in the moors not a chance... I play both freep and creep side and enjoy doing so.. leaving the moors cause of the spewers or -1 creep is on isn't gonna solve anything and just make matters worse.. sorry don't see the logic in this way of thinking myself.

the transfers aren't the problem as a few have said all along the zerging has always been part of landy and will probably remain.. it is upto us on how we play our toons.. so in other words it is upto us to correct the zerging issue by participating or not participating in it.

Originally Posted by Annunlos

We all play different classes. While some of us have reset several R5 alts

lmfao... don't remind me bro.. I deleted my r5 reaver.. d'oh!!! lmfao.. and yep most of us do play diff classes just for a change in pace so to speak.

Originally Posted by PF-Grumpy

Again someone in this thread explain to me how anyone from another server has caused the problem? If anything I see ~less~ creep zerging.

So someone explain where they are seeing more? Am I not playing enough?

I define zerging as flocking to fights with overwhelming numbers.

I.e. 1v1 turns into 5v1 = zerg.

20v20 turns into 40v20 = zerg.

And EVERY imaginable combination between.

And yes, I'm seeing far far FAR more of this than we had previously.

Note: it's not their FAULT. But they're not helping anything IMHO.

17 R5+ Creep Junk

6 R5+ Spewers...18 total, all bugs which means no duplicate toons per player.

No matter HOW you slice it, those present a pretty significant force in the moors. Given that a lot of the time both groups tend to stick together...within their own groups that is...it can lead to some pretty nasty results.

A Landy raid on raid fight for instance that is already creep heavy is one thing...throw in 10 extra bugs and it's just freep wipe over and over.

A Landy small group for instace may be able to counter some of the other small groups out there, but throw in 8 highly ranked highly experienced players who work together well, and a 3-4 player freep group is insta killed, and forced to become 8 or more themselves. Which starts the escelation train rolling.

I have NOTHING personal against any of these players. In a way I relish the thought of getting a chance to mix it up with other experienced players.

But what I'm seeing is an exacerbation of what was already a problem.

I hope in the long run I'm wrong. Time will tell.

----

Oh and as an aside...I can understand where some players, creep and freep could be a little salty about having their leaderboards taken over by people who earned renown/infamy on another server under different conditions. I have to admit, it's irrational, but it leaves a yucky taste in my mouth a little bit.