Thread: Epic quest fail!

Originally Posted by LagunaD

That was true until III.1.

I.15 resolved a story-line, eventually had a challenging instance at the end (challenging before the advent of "Inspired Greatness", at least), and fairly decent rewards. The annoying back and forth was (barely) tolerable because you knew there was going to be a big, satisfying finish.

III.1 has none of that; it is pure, unadulterated fail.

How? It's the first book of a volume. Where were the OMGUBERLEET rewards from I.1 or II.1 (other than the first legendary)? The best rewards from epic quests come from the end, like, you know, I.15. Apples and bananas.

The story of III.1 was also spectacular, however, as with the reward issue, it's the beginning. I.15 is the end, the climax, the ultimate showdown. We're just starting out in III.1, planting seeds, gathering forces. It's like expecting the Concerning Hobbits chapter of LotR to be as epic and exciting as The Scouring of the Shire. Yes, they're both good quality, but it's absurd to think you're going to get the same level of drama and action from both.

W T B MORE MORDRAMBOR.... that is all.

Originally Posted by MadeOfLions

Generally you get extensive travel in the Epic for a number of reasons:
[...]
Sometimes it's excessive. Just so you know, the story of the Grey Company is at heart kind of a road trip. In Volume III? There Will Be Travel.

Yet, people continue to gripe about "pointless" travel. Ask a hunter in your kin, or even in /ooc or regional for help. I'm usually happy to help someone out with free ports. (Just remember to offer us hunter cookies by way of thanks.)

Originally Posted by Meijha

I just finished the SoA epic for the first time on any of my characters and all I can say is WOW. Yes the running back and forth and all over hell's creation got a little old, but the story line was AWESOME.

SOOOO well done, and TY so much for making these solo so I could finally get to see it!

I agree...great story but dang, that back and forth is horrid. I don't mind riding all over ME but V1B15 was absolutely ghastly. If it takes 2 hours to do, 1.5 hours are spent riding back and forth, possibly even longer than that. I'd hate to throw a "fast travel" out there, but I felt it sort of breaks the continuity of the quest line. I'd hop a horse from Riv to Echad Candelleth, walk away from the computer (or alt-tab to check email or something) to do something else then come back (hopefully) prior to getting to EC so I can cut down on some travel.

I guess it's a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things. Although my feelings about that book are of 2 extremes, absolutely best story/quests along with the worst in length of dead time (travel time).

Originally Posted by MadeOfLions

In Volume III? There Will Be Travel.
MoL

This is the kiss of death. It continues to assure the players that there is no content, only running to NPC to NPC to advance a quest. "Burn time"

I hate mindless ping-pong. Example, Vol 1, Book 4. Going back and forth to Rivendel, Glorfingle, and the Tal Bruin is not fun nor rewarding.

Originally Posted by Grape

This is the kiss of death. It continues to assure the players that there is no content, only running to NPC to NPC to advance a quest. "Burn time"

I hate mindless ping-pong. Example, Vol 1, Book 4. Going back and forth to Rivendel, Glorfingle, and the Tal Bruin is not fun nor rewarding.

He didn't say there would be "only" travel, or that there would be travel between existing locations for the sole purpose of spending time, or anything else. He said there would be travel. Tell me what quest in the game does not have travel. He could very well mean that there would be travel between an existing place in the game and some new place in a new zone to start the book. Is that the kiss of death too? But by all means, please read more into a simple statement with your pessimism.

Originally Posted by gildhur

He didn't say there would be "only" travel, or that there would be travel between existing locations for the sole purpose of spending time, or anything else. He said there would be travel. Tell me what quest in the game does not have travel. He could very well mean that there would be travel between an existing place in the game and some new place in a new zone to start the book. Is that the kiss of death too? But by all means, please read more into a simple statement with your pessimism.

I just have the past to predict the future... Have you tried that last Epic quest that made you run all around to world to talk to rangers? That's what I call epic....

Here is your reward.. A Honey and oats recipe...

How about running around Forchel, that's great fun too.. I have 5 alts. There are some times a nice 'fast forward' travel could be implemented. In fact some of the Angmar quests were changed to implement it.

Please debate me that LOTRO quests, (Epic's) don't have useless, boring travel. In my two examples the gameplay is a snooze. MMO's Gameplay is everything!

Originally Posted by Skigorn

I'd hop a horse from Riv to Echad Candelleth, walk away from the computer (or alt-tab to check email or something) to do something else then come back (hopefully) prior to getting to EC so I can cut down on some travel.

This is exactly my example for Gameplay. Why would you encourage people to WALK away from your product?

If I'm reading a book. There isn't a point in which the book stops, forces me to my laundry, before I can continue to the next chaper. I understand Middle earth is a BIG PLACE. I also understand I'm a Rune-Keeper that has SITH LIGHTNING. Is it a bit too much to ask for a 'fast travel' to a location next in the chain?

Example. Fredric the Elder giving you a fast travel to Tresilebridge from Ost Gurtoth..

Originally Posted by Grape

I just have the past to predict the future... Have you tried that last Epic quest that made you run all around to world to talk to rangers? That's what I call epic....

Here is your reward.. A Honey and oats recipe...

How about running around Forchel, that's great fun too.. I have 5 alts. There are some times a nice 'fast forward' travel could be implemented. In fact some of the Angmar quests were changed to implement it.

Please debate me that LOTRO quests, (Epic's) don't have useless, boring travel. In my two examples the gameplay is a snooze. MMO's Gameplay is everything!

III.1 was a story about gathering the Dunedain rangers scattered around Eriador in order to form the Grey Company and ride south to meet Aragorn in Rohan. Did you expect to be able to do all of that in Bree? It's also the first book in the entire volume. You can't expect it to have the most epic awesome climactic gameplay in the world yet.

I.13 in Forochel does have swift travel. If you have done the Frozen War quest out of Suri-kyla, you have a swift travel route from SK to Kuru-leiri in the NW about 200m from where all the B13 content is. Sorry you missed that.

Originally Posted by Grape

Is it a bit too much to ask for a 'fast travel' to a location next in the chain?

Yes. You should (re)read MoL's post. There are actual reasons we don't just insta-port from one quest location to the next, not the least of which is that it would make the world a horribly small unimmersive place.

While I like the epic quests, I will agree that book 15 has quite a bit of unwanted/unneeded downtime in it. More to follow...

Originally Posted by Kril

Gwingris did not exist, and Echad Candeleth did NOT have a stable. We had to ride from Rivendell (manually or to Thorenhad then) to Dellosad. AND we actually had to ride her father's (name leaving me atm) to Dellosad from Rivendell.

I was so happy to see they had removed that part of book 15 - I dreaded riding that horse from Riv to Tal Bruinen and dreaded it and dreaded it, then realized I finished book 15 without having to do it! I was glad for that small change.

Originally Posted by Angadan

Those players (and many older players who just haven't gotten around to it yet whether on main or alt) would benefit hugely for one of the Devs to go back and chop out some of the back-and-forth. The game would be better for it. It could easily be done by collapsing 2 or 3 chapters into one, combining purposes. Along the lines of: "Glorfindel needs to speak with you in Rivendell. Oh, and while you're there, please check on Laerdan's horse!"

I have to agree. If they don't want to change any quests, I would be perfectly happy if they merely enabled a fast travel route from Riv to EC and back again. Even put a disclaimer that it only works if you have book 15 active. (like they did with Saeradan and Candaith's stables). My main drag was having to spend the 5-10 min traveling (I would go afk) and then turn around have spend another 5-10 min traveling (i would go afk again), then again, then again - that's not really playing a game when over an hour, you've only 'played' for about 20 minutes. Consider it breaking for commercials over and over.

So while I don't mind traveling, I have to agree book 15 takes traveling a bit too far and an adjustment would be very much appreciated (by me, at least). As is, I'm waiting a bit before I take the next alt through vol 1 because of it (and he's on book 14 ). For the record, I had no problems with Vol 3 Book 1 and I didn't even take the maps as a quest reward. (and I've done it on more classes than just hunter )

As per my character name I pride myself on breaking the lore! (At least when I'm playing that char.) I'm using this weekend's free travel to swift back and forth between loth and riv. I'll rack up years of travel time. By the time the ring gets destroyed if you count all the travel I've done it should prob be like year 6027 of the Third age.

Originally Posted by gildhur

III.1 was a story about gathering the Dunedain rangers scattered around Eriador in order to form the Grey Company and ride south to meet Aragorn in Rohan. Did you expect to be able to do all of that in Bree? It's also the first book in the entire volume. You can't expect it to have the most epic awesome climactic gameplay in the world yet.

I expected to be entertained and have interesting gameplay. Not be board senseless on horse-routes. I suppose each their own. Epic travel routes FTW. When you have to alt-tab out and play something in the mean-time, there is a problem with game-play. If I wanted to be entranced with the fabulous story, I would read a book. This is the core problem of Lotro currently.. It's boring and not captivating.

Originally Posted by Grape

I expected to be entertained and have interesting gameplay. Not be board senseless on horse-routes. I suppose each their own. Epic travel routes FTW.

The Rift skirmish isn't interesting gameplay? Defending hobbits being assaulted by brigands on the road in the Shire isn't interesting gameplay? This is a narrative game. That narrative is not going to call for super awesome combat scenarios in every situation. I suppose we should have skipped over the parts in the book from Cirith Ungol to Orodruin, or from Lorien to Amon Hen, or from Rivendell to the Doors of Durin. After all, everything between the fighting is just "epic travel routes".

I guess it's about time for LotRO Cliff's Notes: Only the exciting bits, with instant travel between them!

Originally Posted by MadeOfLions

Sometimes it's excessive. Just so you know, the story of the Grey Company is at heart kind of a road trip. In Volume III? There Will Be Travel.

MoL

I know, I shouldn't let it get to me. But it's hard to say "Heck yes, I'm back on my horse!" after hours of riding on my horse. Or someone else's horse.

Travel drives me nuts when you're sent back to the same place again to do something you could have been told in the first place. I like some of the way revamped areas have fixed this... give me a bunch of relevant quests at once instead of 10 one at a time in the same area.

Originally Posted by semjaza

Travel drives me nuts when you're sent back to the same place again to do something you could have been told in the first place. I like some of the way revamped areas have fixed this... give me a bunch of relevant quests at once instead of 10 one at a time in the same area.

And that works when the epic quest line is integrated into a new area, like Mirkwood, Moria, etc. But when an epic quest sends you back to an area where the other quests are lower level or you've already completed them before the current release, that's not possible. That's one problem with Book 15. It sends you back to an area that was released with Book 11. So everyone except brand new players to all that content as of Book 15 would have nothing else to do in the Book 15 areas. That makes it seem like a ton more traveling with no point. Compare that to Book 13 which had new content in Forochel, but Forochel was newly released at the same time. So people who were doing both simultaneously and all the travel didn't feel nearly as bad (though of course the swift option was there after the first couple runs).

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

I hate the epic quest lines. All of them. They are nothing more than a marginally more glamorous way to waste our time. It doesn't matter how engaging the story is becaue any plot they may contain becomes completely pointless when I spend 99% of my time traveling. I do not care to spend my paid-for time reading two paragraphs of text (sometimes it's only a few words!) every 10 minutes.

Here is the formula for the epic storylines:

1. Travel (either across the map or across the entire world)
2. Speak (occasionally replace "speak" with "kill");
3. Return.

That's it. The same TSR that applies to every other quest in the game, only on these there is roughly 100 times the mileage.

Has there ever been, for example, a more horrendous and obnoxious quest line than the Volume 1, Book 13 Forochel farce where we travelled across the map approximately 713 times just to have conversations with the hag in the cave and the bearded jerk-off on the igloo throne? Sweet Jesus. Hope you have access to that swift travel route.

For all the praise people heap on the epic quests they're really just plain insulting. I will never care about an "Academy Award winning" script that does nothing but send me around in circles for an hour. The gameplay completely defeats any sense of appreciation or awe that I could ever hope to muster.

Then there's the Volume 1, Book 14 epic quest where you have the honor of Session Playing an Angmarim tasked with killing slugs and waking up sleeping orcs. Wow, thanks. That WAS compelling. And I did it to have the further honor of witnessing a conversation that went something like this:

"Where's the ring?"

"It's far away."

"I need it."

"Oh, okay."

"Thanks."

Do you maybe think Turbine designed that quest specifically to waste yet more of your time in game? Talk about a pointless story. Perhaps my expectations are too high. Or maybe everyone else's are too low.

"ARE YOU SERIOUS ... CLARK? "

Lotro's quest dialogue has been for most part best ive come across ... in any MMO ever .. and Ive paid almost every single one thats come out since EQ except free ones ....

your dime but reading them is actually kinda cool .... but i understand a portion of the mmo comuunity prefer action based games and would prefer their mmo be the same with no silly reading required

Originally Posted by gildhur

The Rift skirmish isn't interesting gameplay?

The rift skirmish was bugged horribly when I tried it with a friend. I had to solo it because the conjunctions did not work correctly and the last encounter broken in a duo. I suppose that fits interesting gameplay.

Still I thought we were talking about nonsense travel.

Originally Posted by Trushott

"ARE YOU SERIOUS ... CLARK? "

Lotro's quest dialogue has been for most part best ive come across ... in any MMO ever .. and Ive paid almost every single one thats come out since EQ except free ones ....

your dime but reading them is actually kinda cool .... but i understand a portion of the mmo comuunity prefer action based games and would prefer their mmo be the same with no silly reading required

How long does it take you to read 5 lines of text?

Go.

STOP.

Now hop on your horse for 15 minutes.

Originally Posted by gildhur

And that works when the epic quest line is integrated into a new area, like Mirkwood, Moria, etc. But when an epic quest sends you back to an area where the other quests are lower level or you've already completed them before the current release, that's not possible. That's one problem with Book 15. It sends you back to an area that was released with Book 11. So everyone except brand new players to all that content as of Book 15 would have nothing else to do in the Book 15 areas. That makes it seem like a ton more traveling with no point. Compare that to Book 13 which had new content in Forochel, but Forochel was newly released at the same time. So people who were doing both simultaneously and all the travel didn't feel nearly as bad (though of course the swift option was there after the first couple runs).

That's a good point.

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

How long does it take you to read 5 lines of text?

Go.

STOP.

Now hop on your horse for 15 minutes.

might i suggest quake 3 for you

I'm honestly not some FPS-playing thirteen year old with ADHD and a need for instant gratification.

Anyway I'm all better now. I may be back in the future, however, depending on travel times.

Originally Posted by Trushott

might i suggest quake 3 for you

I love Quake 3. There's nothing wrong with liking all sorts of games, I hope, because if so I am definitely guilty as charged. Recently played through Quake and one of its expansions, as a matter of fact, and had a great time.

MoL

I actually had no issues with book 15's travel, because I combined it with questing in Eregion. I would start a play session in Rivendell, ride to Delossad and do whatever quest update needed doing, then proceed to Eregion and quest for a while, then gate back to Rivendell to complete the next quest section and log out. It worked quite well. It also probably helped that I was alternating play sessions with my new Runekeeper, and also playing with some friends who were on a free trial at the time. However, I never felt at ALL like I was travelling excessively.

Sometimes (actually, a lot) I think players get too focused on whatever task is uppermost in their minds - must do book 15! Must run this instance 27 times to get Radiance gear! Must get every Scroll of Empowerment I need right now! - and miss the fact that there's usually a LOT of different things to do around at any given time, which can be strug together in a variety of ways. In many cases, mixing up play will improve enjoyment of ALL of it.

As much as I enjoy combat in this game, I applaud any part of the epic quest that isn't just about combat. I enjoy the lush environments, the mood, the drama, and the storyline as much as the tactical challenge that is instance content. Especially when you haven't been in an area for months, it can be nice to actually stay AT the keyboard while travelling to enjoy the sights and sounds. Sometimes I even take my own horse in preference to swift travel.

Originally Posted by aetryn

As much as I enjoy combat in this game, I applaud any part of the epic quest that isn't just about combat. I enjoy the lush environments, the mood, the drama, and the storyline as much as the tactical challenge that is instance content. Especially when you haven't been in an area for months, it can be nice to actually stay AT the keyboard while travelling to enjoy the sights and sounds. Sometimes I even take my own horse in preference to swift travel.

Agree completely (even though I thought I.15 contained too much back-and-forth ). The art/world building folks do an amazing job. And the music is great, too. Eriador holds so many fond memories. It's like visiting an old friend who you haven't seen in a long time. For that reason, I loved III.1. Of course, I can also understand that this isn't everyone's cup of tea. It's impossible to make everyone happy.

I'm a lore geek. I wouldn't be here if it weren't Middle Earth, and I love the writing and the story; even so, I concur that the travel in that book is excessive. For that matter, it has the unintended effect of jerking you out of the storyline rather than contributing to it.

I only recently completed Volume I (yay for Inspired Greatness!), but if I hadn't been playing my Warden with her muster skills I might not have made it through. Back and forth and back and forth and . . . sheesh.

It didn't bug me in the Vol III Prologue because that was half the point of the prologue, but book 1.15 was ridiculous, one of the very few low points in the epic narrative.

The story overall was excellent, though.

Personally, the only excessive travel that I dislike is ping-ponging, especially when all you are doing is playing messenger. I don't mind Vol 3, Book 1, because you are going from A to B to C to D (etc) and doing something at each locale. However, I do wonder how long all that travel in the epics would take if LotRO was on a 1:1 scale, and you could only travel a realistic distance per day on horseback....

I actually think it's amusing how you are just the errand-boy through Volume I. It's very fitting...we are nobodies compared to the NPCs we are doing stuff for. Sure, they say that what we are doing is vital to the protection of the free peoples, but really their minds are on more important matters and they are just keeping us busy so we'll keep our noses out of it.

This changes over the course of Volume II. Unlike the Elves, Rangers, and Wizards, the dwarves are actually rather helpless and do need our help. I was doing II.1 over the weekend on one of my alts. The dwarves treat you with contempt at the start. "Hey! You over there! Stop gawking and deliver these lunches! After that, you can gather up all those broken pickaxes and collect some pointy rocks. Well?? What are you waiting for?? Get to it ya lazy hobbit!"

As Volume II progresses, they start to see that you are actually a worthwhile ally. At the end, you are very much the hero that everyone is relying on you.

I like that progression and it shows our relative importance in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, in volume I you run errands for important people. In doing so, you'll earn their respect and be given tougher tasks in the future! Keep in mind that we are still at the beginning of the story...there's plenty of time to be a hero later on (and I'm sure more people we need to earn the trust of, lol.)

I kind of like the traveling quests. They are a challenge to my knowlege of LOTRO. We have a ton of different fast travel options, the MAP, all of the Return to Racial abilities, Horsemasters and their fast travel, etc.

It is a challenge to my personal knowlege of how to get from point A to Point B in the most efficient manner possible. It is only dull if you fail to take advantage of the options available to you.

Depends on how hard you make a virtue out of a necessity.

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

I hate the epic quest lines. All of them. They are nothing more than a marginally more glamorous way to waste our time. It doesn't matter how engaging the story is becaue any plot they may contain becomes completely pointless when I spend 99% of my time traveling. I do not care to spend my paid-for time reading two paragraphs of text (sometimes it's only a few words!) every 10 minutes.

Here is the formula for the epic storylines:

1. Travel (either across the map or across the entire world)
2. Speak (occasionally replace "speak" with "kill");
3. Return.

That's it. The same TSR that applies to every other quest in the game, only on these there is roughly 100 times the mileage.

Has there ever been, for example, a more horrendous and obnoxious quest line than the Volume 1, Book 13 Forochel farce where we travelled across the map approximately 713 times just to have conversations with the hag in the cave and the bearded jerk-off on the igloo throne? Sweet Jesus. Hope you have access to that swift travel route.

For all the praise people heap on the epic quests they're really just plain insulting. I will never care about an "Academy Award winning" script that does nothing but send me around in circles for an hour. The gameplay completely defeats any sense of appreciation or awe that I could ever hope to muster.

Then there's the Volume 1, Book 14 epic quest where you have the honor of Session Playing an Angmarim tasked with killing slugs and waking up sleeping orcs. Wow, thanks. That WAS compelling. And I did it to have the further honor of witnessing a conversation that went something like this:

"Where's the ring?"

"It's far away."

"I need it."

"Oh, okay."

"Thanks."

Do you maybe think Turbine designed that quest specifically to waste yet more of your time in game? Talk about a pointless story. Perhaps my expectations are too high. Or maybe everyone else's are too low.

I couldn't agree more. The pointless go to the stable, return to Elrond, go to the stable is irrating at best. But the sessions play beyond being boring and pointless seems designed to make us feel like Laerdan (tortured).

Sadly for myself, I'm on my 4/6 time doing this simple because I'm anal compulsive for the horse and title... or perhaps it was getting to book 10 and thinking, "I mind's well finish"... No I'm thinking anal compulsive.