Discussion: Makes me Nervous

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178849

The article in the link above says it all. 2 million in 4 hours from "said" company for "said" game by selling an in game mount.

I think the future of MMOs is playing out in front of us. Look at the success of DDO once it went microtran route. Look at how much a company can make by selling a virtual mount that means nothing. Some folks will never even see 2 million dollars in their lives, crazy world eh?

Farmville, facebook game. Over 80 million users made it one of the fastest growing games in history. It even has microtrans for "farm bucks" which it made a pretty penny on.

Like it or hate it, I have a nervous feeling all future MMOs being made will be virtual stores soon, but maybe not.

This isn't a QQ, just my nervous feeling that MMOs are about to become much more expensive in the future. I don't mind paying 14.99/month, and I'm not opposed to microtrans games...as long as I don't have to spend much more than that a month to experience the content. $20 dollars might be my limit, thats it. But maybe I'm just old fashioned.

Thoughts?

Envoyé par Drifter25

Thoughts?

Greed. It will over take all companies. Its the "american" way. /sigh.

p.s. /agree... thats when people will leave the MMO scene and single players will be in the center of the spot light once again.

Envoyé par nikito

Greed. It will over take all companies. Its the "american" way. /sigh.

p.s. /agree... thats when people will leave the MMO scene and single players will be in the center of the spot light once again.

Very true sir, though greed has plagued mankind since...well, a loooong time!

Sigh, when the winds of change blow, they roar. How much you want to bet, someone will put out an mmo with an in game mp3 store? Live score updates from real life sporting events. Bascially Facebook within the game. Pictures, cards, mini games, you name it. All we need is a modern day MMO where someone walks into a store...and boom. Not that I want that to happen, just what passed through my mind when I seen "2 million in 4 hours".

When every MMO goes to Micros it will be the death of the genre.

Eventually people will either pay big bucks for all the good stuff or just play for free without using the micros.

People aren't going to pay a monthly sub and pay for micros.

So a company will have to hope that people are willing to play for free and get pooped on by the people that spend alot of money on micro transactions. Because eventually if a company doesn't offer "power" items that improve performance the majority of the population will just play for free.

At this point all the freebies will leave, the rich and famous will have no one to play with and the death of the MMO genre will rear its ugly face.

Oh, and we have yet again more reason to thank Blizzard for taking a big giant SHAT all over the MMO genre.

And people are stupid for paying $25 bucks for a mount. This will be the very people whining that they can't play LotRO or AoC because they can't afford a new PC that will run it.

Envoyé par nikito

Greed. It will over take all companies. Its the "american" way. /sigh.

p.s. /agree... thats when people will leave the MMO scene and single players will be in the center of the spot light once again.

Er, how do you distinguish "greed" from simply trying to make the same honest profit that we're all trying to make?

What is it about this particular direction that future games might take that you think identifies it as "greed," as opposed to offering a product that people might want to buy?

If you saw this kind of opportunity to make a lot of money in a short time, am I to understand that you would turn it down?


Rip

I don't really see a need to be nervous about this, though. Microtransactions can play out three different ways:

1) The full-on Microtransaction method. In this type of game, you can buy anything - and I do mean anything - in their store, including gear and other items really needed to succeed in the game. There are many games that already use this method, but they usually don't charge a subscription fee, and tend to have a bad reputation among the MMO community.

2) The DDO Store method. As we see in DDO, you can buy things that help you get ahead in the game from their store, but everything is still optional. You can also gain currency for the store-bought items without spending actual cash there, so it is a hybrid type of Microtransaction store, really.

3) The (current) Blizzard Store method. All they (currently) sell are in-game pets, mounts and other fluff. You cannot (currently) buy anything through Microtransactions that will give you a real advantage in-game. This is obviously the least intrustive form of Microtransactions, and would be the only one I think appropriate for LOTRO, should Turbine choose to go that route.

None of the above really make a game unplayable, they simply affect a given game differently than the standard subscription-only model of payment. I'm certainly no fan of Model #1, and I don't think it would work with a game such as LOTRO at all, but it certainly has shown to be a viable model for small MMOs that otherwise would get no income at all.

In short, I don't see microtransactions as something to fear in the future. Eventually many games may adopt one of the three models either from the start or later in their lifecycle, which can keep these games afloat when otherwise they might have had to close down. Nothing bad about that.

Envoyé par Rippentuck

Er, how do you distinguish "greed" from simply trying to make the same honest profit that we're all trying to make?

What is it about this particular direction that future games might take that you think identifies it as "greed," as opposed to offering a product that people might want to buy?

If you saw this kind of opportunity to make a lot of money in a short time, am I to understand that you would turn it down?


Rip

It's easy to distinguish.

Making a very nice profit from charging a monthly fee for an MMO subscription is an honest profit.

Milking players for everything you possibly can by charging them real world currency for in-game items just so they can enjoy playing said game is greed, plain and simple.

You know it, I know it, and they know it. People can feign ignorance of something, but in reality we can all tell the difference between an honest profit and pure greed.

Some just choose not to admit it.

Envoyé par BellusDuFenna

I don't really see a need to be nervous about this, though. Microtransactions can play out three different ways:

1) The full-on Microtransaction method. In this type of game, you can buy anything - and I do mean anything - in their store, including gear and other items really needed to succeed in the game. There are many games that already use this method, but they usually don't charge a subscription fee, and tend to have a bad reputation among the MMO community.

2) The DDO Store method. As we see in DDO, you can buy things that help you get ahead in the game from their store, but everything is still optional. You can also gain currency for the store-bought items without spending actual cash there, so it is a hybrid type of Microtransaction store, really.

3) The (current) Blizzard Store method. All they (currently) sell are in-game pets, mounts and other fluff. You cannot (currently) buy anything through Microtransactions that will give you a real advantage in-game. This is obviously the least intrustive form of Microtransactions, and would be the only one I think appropriate for LOTRO, should Turbine choose to go that route.

None of the above really make a game unplayable, they simply affect a given game differently than the standard subscription-only model of payment. I'm certainly no fan of Model #1, and I don't think it would work with a game such as LOTRO at all, but it certainly has shown to be a viable model for small MMOs that otherwise would get no income at all.

In short, I don't see microtransactions as something to fear in the future. Eventually many games may adopt one of the three models either from the start or later in their lifecycle, which can keep these games afloat when otherwise they might have had to close down. Nothing bad about that.

Nice post. It makes me nervous just because I don't really wish to have to pay more to afford the same amount of content I enjoy now with a flat monthly fee. But I'm not opposed to it either, I've not done the micro-transactions stuff so I can't really form a valid opinion on it.

If its affordable and fun, yea it might work.

Envoyé par Jasos

It's easy to distinguish.

Making a very nice profit from charging a monthly fee for an MMO subscription is an honest profit.

Milking players for everything you possibly can by charging them real world currency for in-game items just so they can enjoy playing said game is greed, plain and simple.

You know it, I know it, and they know it. People can feign ignorance of something, but in reality we can all tell the difference between an honest profit and pure greed.

Some just choose not to admit it.

I woud say that depends, really. If the items being sold are necessary for gameplay, or provide in-game benefits that others cannot get through simple gameplay, then yes, that's greed. But selling fluff like mounts and pets that no one really needs? That can be greed, too, but it certainly isn't harmful in any way. It's just selling fluff that no one needs. If they want to buy it, fine. If not, fine.

Like it or not, microtransactions will become more and more common in gaming, not just MMOs. The only time it might be a problem is when you have to subscribe to play, and they sell items that are necessary for gameplay in their store. If a game follows the Blizzard or DDO model of microtransactions, I don't see it as being a problem, because in neither case are purchases from the store required for gameplay.

Greed, meh. Microtrans won't work if nobody buys.

Hence it's not the company's fault but consumers with too much money and not enough brain cells.

Lotro will be safe if we don't give into nice looking pixels. But also paying a 'chunky' monthly subscription takes care of that. Most micro cash shop games are f2p.

ROFL....I am so glad I quit playing WOW when I did.

I guess this will be Blizzard's answer to making up the money for when China said...no more WOW for you! I don't really keep up with WOW news but I haven't heard anything about that issue being resolved yet...or has it? Anyone know?

.

Envoyé par Jasos

It's easy to distinguish.

Making a very nice profit from charging a monthly fee for an MMO subscription is an honest profit.

Milking players for everything you possibly can by charging them real world currency for in-game items just so they can enjoy playing said game is greed, plain and simple.

You know it, I know it, and they know it. People can feign ignorance of something, but in reality we can all tell the difference between an honest profit and pure greed.

Some just choose not to admit it.

that's some whacked out thinking ....

If a private company wants to set up a business model anyway they see fit and sell a product that is thier business ....

Consumers will then through supply and demand and fierce competition will decide if that company is too "greedy"

if you don't like a companies offering you can choose to do business elsewhere which is the beauty of how private for profit business works!

Those companies offering the best service and prices ... Grow ... Those that do not fail ...


I'm so sick of hearing socialistic babble about fairness and greed ...

The past 20 years the world over has raised a generation or two of needy whiny want everything given to them crybabies that cannot stand real success nor do they want it ...

In the real world everyone is NOT equal ... Everyone does not get a trophy ...
And making boatloads of money through a great idea service or business does not make one evil !

turbine should offer the game for free and give us a full expansion for free every month

Envoyé par Trushott

that's some whacked out thinking ....

If a private company wants to set up a business model anyway they see fit and sell a product that is thier business ....

Consumers will then through supply and demand and fierce competition will decide if that company is too "greedy"

if you don't like a companies offering you can choose to do business elsewhere which is the beauty of how private for profit business works!

Those companies offering the best service and prices ... Grow ... Those that do not fail ...


I'm so sick of hearing socialistic babble about fairness and greed ...

The past 20 years the world over has raised a generation or two of needy whiny want everything given to them crybabies that cannot stand real success nor do they want it ...

In the real world everyone is NOT equal ... Everyone does not get a trophy ...
And making boatloads of money through a great idea service or business does not make one evil !

I dunno, I never said any said company was evil or good, I'm staying out of that. Whether its greedy or not will be a bit subjective as well. Though I do think my ancestors would turn over in their graves if they found out I paid money for a computer generated pixilated horse....but that was then, this is now. And I most certainly love rampaging about with a pixilated dwarf in Middle Earth

As I said earlier, I'm not opposed to the microtrans stuffs, but it brings up interesting arguments, and probably big implications for game design. I don't even know that its a really big issue with the current crop of big name MMOs out there, but the future ones. Think of what may be planned for something like, that new Star Wars mmo with EA having their noses in it.

Maybe the issue is, what will this do for US, the gamers out there? Personally, I’m not big into the flashy flaunting epeen stuff. Probably why I was driven from the Blizzard mmo. I'm about the adventure. But everyone is different.

Envoyé par Trushott

that's some whacked out thinking ....

If a private company wants to set up a business model anyway they see fit and sell a product that is thier business ....

Consumers will then through supply and demand and fierce competition will decide if that company is too "greedy"

if you don't like a companies offering you can choose to do business elsewhere which is the beauty of how private for profit business works!

Those companies offering the best service and prices ... Grow ... Those that do not fail ...


I'm so sick of hearing socialistic babble about fairness and greed ...

The past 20 years the world over has raised a generation or two of needy whiny want everything given to them crybabies that cannot stand real success nor do they want it ...

In the real world everyone is NOT equal ... Everyone does not get a trophy ...
And making boatloads of money through a great idea service or business does not make one evil !

I'm so sick of uneducated people dropping red-button terms like "socialist" without knowing their definitions or applications. Let's nip this in the bud since you're the first to bring it up.

Private companies working under capitalistic principles are just evolving with changing business models. This isn't wrong in itself, nor would I classify a microtrans model as being "greedy." Greed under the capitalist model requires more extremism to me--i.e. stepping over ethical/moral boundaries. There is nothing intrinsically unethical in the MT business model because gaming is so utterly unnecessary and a privilege (not a right) where consumers ultimately have absolute control over its success.

Socialism, whether you're talking about political or economic forms or a combination thereof, has to do with beliefs in various rights superceding privilege. The absolute basic gist is that capitalism unfairly concentrates both wealth and power in a small segment of an entire population. How on Middle Earth do you get from American corporate greed to a (anti)socialist argument? Turbine isn't directing health care or building roads or watching water quality or...anything to do with redistribution of production wealth either. This and that are completely unrelated.

Don't muddy the waters on an already hot topic with inappropriately used terms like that. It doesn't further your argument at all.

As for microtransaction application in games... Well, I guess I don't really care. If I don't like it--if I calculate benefits against actual expenditure and decide it doesn't add up for me--then I won't pay for it. Period. There is no "milking" involved, no filching, no theft, no GREED... because the entire industry is optional entertainment. Jesus, get that through your heads. You have no rights here besides the time you paid for server access.

You are not attempting to buy health insurance from for-profit companies that won't cover you because you have a pre-existing cancer condition and were laid off. THAT is greed.

Spending money on a game subscription is one thing but spending *real* money for *fake* in-game stuff.......whats wrong with that picture?

Dumb!!! Dumb!!!! Dumb!!!!

Envoyé par Qaylyn

Spending money on a game subscription is one thing but spending *real* money for *fake* in-game stuff.......whats wrong with that picture?

Dumb!!! Dumb!!!! Dumb!!!!

It's about as dumb as someone paying $10 to spend two hours of his life passively watching transient entertainment on a large screen. It's about as dumb as spending $200 to watch a concert. In both cases, you receive "nothing." Where's the "stuff"?

The way I see it, it's experiential entertainment. The main differences between my examples and the assumption of "virtual goods" are scale and interactivity, I'm inclined to believe: The little bits of "nothing" you buy for a game are experiences you can "use" through your gaming time. If people want to spend their disposable income on stuff like this, that's their business.

If you stick two things together that people have never seen before, somebody will buy it. You can't blame Blizzard for taking advantage of a good opportunity. It's not greed if someone is willing to spend an outrageous amount of money for such a trivial item. It doesn't give anyone an in-game edge, and what someone else spends their hard earned dough on is their own business.

It doesn't scare me in the least bit. If Turbine decides to go that route, I'm all for it. Whatever adds to the revenue stream, doesn't unbalance the game, and is a legal and ethical business decision is loaded with win. As long as I'm not forced to pay for it, I could give less than a rodent's hiney. It's all about choice.

Makes me so happy I quit that game.

Micro-transactions aren't bad in themselves, it's how the game company chooses to integrate it with their game that makes a difference. For instance, selling fluff items is more than reasonable. People want certain things, and the developers could be more convinced to create a larger selection of fluff if people are paying for it. However, when it comes to game changing items - such as gear, xp buffs, potions etc, they have to be very careful. Not just out of fairness, but out of game balance as well.

While I think applying the term socialist to people who think that game companies should accept less profitable business models to suit players preferences, I also know and work with people who do not even realize that companies need to make a profit in order to exist and provide them with a livelyhood. It amazes me that people seem to think that corporations simply have unlimited resources to pay and pay and pay without regard to costs or profits. The problem of course is that when companies compete for shareholders dollars they do so by trying to make, not just a profit, but more profit than anyone else. That is where "greed" comes in, as corporate officers make decisions that are bad in the long term in order to make the numbers look good in the short term in order to impress the stock analysts and share holders.

I tried DDO. It was not fun. The micro transactions and the design of the game needed to induce people to pay them were intrusive, annoying and drove me away.

Envoyé par Digital_Utopia

Micro-transactions aren't bad in themselves, it's how the game company chooses to integrate it with their game that makes a difference. For instance, selling fluff items is more than reasonable.

It still seriously cheapens the game.

Dungeon Master at a Pen and Paper game hands out a printed flyer to the people around the table.

"Alright, $10 will buy you most items. $20 for ... and stuff. It will be in a chest at the end of the dungeon. Cool, huh. You get what you want. I get a new PS3 this weekend. Everybody wins."

Lame. I don't know what else to say.

It has all become about greed now. I know that companies need to make a living.

Just take a look at the mess up in the ddo forums with the offer wall. Somebody who is hopefully fired now, tried to team up with a known website that does nothing but scams and viruses. Now that was greed.

And yes there is a lot of it going on just look at all the F2P stuff that mmorpg is continualy pushing on folks. It it was free then how do they stay in bussiness, its called RMT.

RMT is the new business model for sure, and were going to start seeing a lot more of it here stateside. Look at the eastern block contries 95% of what they do is already F2P, well RMT. I hate using the term F2P as it means its free to play but the RMT side of it nothing is free, and folks buy into this. There been articles where some lady in South Korea a doctor at that spent 65 thousand yuan, not shure what that calculates to in dollars in a month playing a F2P game.

Envoyé par Silverangel

It still seriously cheapens the game.

Dungeon Master at a Pen and Paper game hands out a printed flyer to the people around the table.

"Alright, $10 will buy you most items. $20 for ... and stuff. It will be in a chest at the end of the dungeon. Cool, huh. You get what you want. I get a new PS3 this weekend. Everybody wins."

Lame. I don't know what else to say.

Interesting arguments being brought up. Its a hot topic, but I hope we can keep it civil.

Maybe what we need to ask ourselves, and of our developers, are a few key questions. So lets pick the genre; there are MMOs and MMORPG. Lets stick to the rpg side of the gaming.

What is it that made you play an rpg in the first place? Timeframe? Setting? Character advancement? Freedom to explore, craft, fight?

Seems to me that things that are considered intrinsic to rpgs, the backbone of the game, do we wish to be charged for outside of buying the actual game? In my opinion, it is probably unfair to have any microtrans that have anything to do with "character advancement" as I feel that is what makes an rpg. Things like paying for levels, gear, stats, etc....that in my opinion is crossing the line and probably something I won't play. Paying for an expansion is one thing, paying to have the best gear/stats will certainly create a divide in a game that could cause worse implications of which I don't wish to go into (borderline themes that might turn this thread into a flame war). Gosh, I'm playing an online game to have an adventure with other like-minded folks and to escape, or a least dim down, the madness of reality

So as someone brought up earlier, it will come down to a proper moral/etiquette usage of said system.

This isn't greed. They are selling a completely optional item in a make-believe world. Now, I love MMOs. This is just entertainment and is not like doubling the price of insulin. This is just good business.

If Turbine announced they were selling new tougher, very fast mounts and all the money would go toward 8 new updates in 2011, you guys would snap it up so fast that they couldn't count the money fast enough......and you would be talking about how great it's going to be.

The simple fast is if they doubled the sub fee...where else am I going to get hundreds of hours of entertainment for $30. My cable bill is more than that.

well blizzard must know who their playerbase is so they are modifying things accordingly and using the toy store strategy. They know that a large portion of their player base are kids and they know what toy stores know: if you appeal to the kids, they will bug their parents endlessly until they get it. Which is what happened yesterday when my son saw that mount in wow. "MOM! Look at this horse!" so he looks it up online, finds it at the blizzard store and then starts all the sweet talk, cajoling, etc to convince me he needs to have it -.- That may not work as well here where the players are generally older.

Envoyé par Qaylyn

Spending money on a game subscription is one thing but spending *real* money for *fake* in-game stuff.......whats wrong with that picture?

Dumb!!! Dumb!!!! Dumb!!!!

I wouldn't call it dumb... but overall I tend to agree that it's a silly thing to spend money on.

Envoyé par Trilwych

It's about as dumb as someone paying $10 to spend two hours of his life passively watching transient entertainment on a large screen. It's about as dumb as spending $200 to watch a concert. In both cases, you receive "nothing." Where's the "stuff"?

The way I see it, it's experiential entertainment. The main differences between my examples and the assumption of "virtual goods" are scale and interactivity, I'm inclined to believe: The little bits of "nothing" you buy for a game are experiences you can "use" through your gaming time. If people want to spend their disposable income on stuff like this, that's their business.

Maybe it all boils down to opinion, in which case neither of us will be right or wrong, but I don't see buying fake stuff as the same as paying for entertainment. It's a perk to the entertainment you already bought. To make a comparison, paying a subscription to play the game is like buying a sporting event ticket for $200. Buying fluff in the game is like paying extra to make sure you and your friends are on the jumbo screen and get to wave at some point. I'd pay for the sporting event... but not for the jumbo screen appearance. But to others, it's worth it and I have no beef with it (it's just my opinion that it's a waste of money).

I guess microtransactions are worth it to some, and I agree that, that is their business. I don't care if others buy it or not, I just know I won't if I can help it (some people said the x-pac was a micro transaction, but it was the only way I could get Mirkwood). And if the game, or all games in general, start relying on that model for anything other than fluff, I just won't play anymore. There's other stuff to do or other games to play. Unlike something like the airlines that I have to use (and who are now starting to charge for carry-ons for crying out loud), I don't have to play computer games.

To me mircotransactions are just "legalized" gold selling and I can "vote" against it with my wallet if I feel the need to.

Here is my basis for understanding human behavior:

If you start with the basic belief that we are all insane, then we have a starting point to begin our conversation.

Blizzard offers a $25 fluff horse and makes $2 million dollars. Later, Blizzard offers a $200 Limited Edition gold trimmed version of the same horse. And people buy it.

There has always been this type of 'collectors' market. There are $10 barbie dolls and $500 limited edition dolls. Who buys these things? Normal people... Insane people. You and me (but not me )

Envoyé par Jilla

I wouldn't call it dumb... but overall I tend to agree that it's a silly thing to spend money on.



Maybe it all boils down to opinion, in which case neither of us will be right or wrong, but I don't see buying fake stuff as the same as paying for entertainment. It's a perk to the entertainment you already bought. To make a comparison, paying a subscription to play the game is like buying a sporting event ticket for $200. Buying fluff in the game is like paying extra to make sure you and your friends are on the jumbo screen and get to wave at some point. I'd pay for the sporting event... but not for the jumbo screen appearance. But to others, it's worth it and I have no beef with it (it's just my opinion that it's a waste of money).

An interesting way to view it.

So, we buy the game fresh out of the box or digital download (we just bought a ticket to the sporting event). This gives us access to the game and its content (we get to see said sporting event). But we can purchase "fluff" like mounts or cosmetic items (we buy food or drinks at the sporting event, or t-shirts whatever) and thats where the microtrans come into play.

I would hope personally that developers would stay away from a situation like this though. Lets say Rohan is the next expac, hypothetically. So we buy it out of the box or via download (bought the ticket to the show). Lets say Helm's Deep is a part of it but you cannot go there unless you paid a "premium" price (i.e. you are now sitting in the press box). That to me would be...well I may not like such a situation for my rpg style, I think you would separate the community. Touchy topic, but in an MMO, it will work differently than going to a show in real life.

I will stress that I am not picking on Turbine here, not at all. I'm thinking for more of the future, the future of online gaming here and ALL developers in general.

Envoyé par spiritintelligencia

Here is my basis for understanding human behavior:

If you start with the basic belief that we are all insane, then we have a starting point to begin our conversation.

Blizzard offers a $25 fluff horse and makes $2 million dollars. Later, Blizzard offers a $200 Limited Edition gold trimmed version of the same horse. And people buy it.

There has always been this type of 'collectors' market. There are $10 barbie dolls and $500 limited edition dolls. Who buys these things? Normal people... Insane people. You and me (but not me )

Indeed.

Another example: No one seems to have a problem with folks who buy a game and get the Collector's Edition, even though it often includes special fluff items that other players cannot get. It's exactly the same as a microtransaction, but somehow no one has a problem with Collector's Editions. Worse yet, some of the items you get in a Collector's Edition give that player an advantage over other players in-game, like better starting gear. You don't see that sort of advantage being sold in the Blizzard Store (yet), but suddenly people are up in arms about a flying mount?

I don't get it.

Envoyé par Drifter25

I would hope personally that developers would stay way from a situation like this though. Lets say Rohan is the next expac, hypothetically. So we buy it out of the box or via download (bought the ticket to the show). Lets say Helm's Deep is a part of it but you cannot go there unless you paid a "premium" price (i.e. you are now sitting in the press box). That to me would be...well I may not like such a situation for my rpg style, I think you would separate the community. Touchy topic, but in an MMO, it will work differently than going to a show in real life.

If Turbine pulled something like that, there would be hell to pay. Luckily, I have yet to see an expansion where microtransactions were required in addition to see all of that expansion's content.

Just like in other games that have had a store with company sponsored RMT, it does not cheapen my game in the least.

If people want to fork out their cash to purchase items, the only thing it does is give the company more incentive to make the core game more appealing. The game remains the same. I don't measure my enjoyment against what others are able to obtain in the game by playing or by cash.

We see it to a small extent when they offer "buy now" deals on expansions with claim items. Someone that takes the package under their terms gets a reward beyond someone who buys it after the offer expires. Do people really avoid purchasing the content because it might lack that free mount? Is their game ruined because I have one?

I look it from the realistic business aspect. I enjoy playing this game. If it remains profitable to Turbine they continue to support the game. The players that throw big money into game stores also are playing the game. It makes sense that they will want better and richer content to ride that mount in. The more compelling the content becomes, the more they spend; the more they spend, the more Turbine will wish to invest.

It's not just us subscribers that have to be happy with the game. The company behind the game also has to have a reason to keep "playing". It's very narrow minded to believe that the gaming company needs to keep our niche world just the way it is and be satisfied with limited profits. Go to your company and mention that you have an idea or concept that would make the company millions, but it might slight those that won't participate in the additional services and see where it goes.

As long as the items don't affect game play [like selling Symbols for LI's, or selling the LI's with great legacies,etc.] I have no problem with it.

Sorry, it won't happen, no RMTs in LOTRO...

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=198131

Envoyé par Mav145

This isn't greed. They are selling a completely optional item in a make-believe world. Now, I love MMOs. This is just entertainment and is not like doubling the price of insulin. This is just good business.

If Turbine announced they were selling new tougher, very fast mounts and all the money would go toward 8 new updates in 2011, you guys would snap it up so fast that they couldn't count the money fast enough......and you would be talking about how great it's going to be.

The simple fast is if they doubled the sub fee...where else am I going to get hundreds of hours of entertainment for $30. My cable bill is more than that.

You bring up a very good and valid argument. How many threads have there been explaining that an expansion/adventure pack was not worth $20, they won't be purchasing the next one. I mean, sure, it might not have been everything you hoped for, but not worth $20? Some players harbor this unrealistic view of what $20 for an expansion or $10 a month should buy them.

If there were to announce that the next expansion would be $50 and the monthly rate was going to be $25 to avoid any in game store system, players would scream yet again how it's not worth the money, Turbine is greedy.

At the same time, check out the technical forums. Someone mentions they have lag attributed to a low end video card. The end result is usually that you can buy a "decent" card for $200 which is a cheap upgrade. Everyone including the OP is satisfied with the solution. I don't mind paying $200 or more for hardware to play a game that costs me $10 a month. So we pay all this extra money for faster ISP's, better hardware, SSD's, you name it, all to play a $10 a month game, then call the gaming company greedy! Does that really seem logical?

EDIT: I would add that it's not just gaming that suffers from skewed logic. Gas prices are very high, they have been for some time. It does hurt quite a few industries and individuals. That accepted, I get a kick out of the news crews that interview the guy with the $100,000 SUV tricked out with the $10,000 rims that complains the high gas prices will put him in the poor house.

Envoyé par Indy-in-IN

Sorry, it won't happen, no RMTs in LOTRO...

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=198131

I rather think the OP was referring to the way the genre as a whole was going not necessarily LOTRO. Changing an existing game would be a complex move. The concern is future games may well move towards micro transactions being the "norm"
I do not have a problem, I am prepared to pay for my "amusement" in a game so long as TO ME the amusement return is worth the payment If it is not I would look elsewhere. At the end of the day it is the consumer who controls which way the market goes.....

What some businesses forget is this: people WANT to spend money on something they love. IF the business does not include options for people to do this, they will spend money elsewhere (or in the case of gaming, perhaps illegally thru gold buying etc.)

Money is simply ENERGY. You have energy, you use it. You are angry; you yell, or you go punch a punching bag. You are excited; you scream, or you buy a new coat.

People need to be told WHERE they can spend their energy correctly.

If a gaming company ONLY offers a subscription plan, the bottom line is that they are shooting themselves in the foot. Plain and simple. Turbine NEEDS to offer people a place to sink their money, and a fluff item like a horse is a good start. At the least, it gives people with holes in their pocket relief at being able to rid themselves of cash. At best, it gives people who love the product a way to support it.

I think may see things like the examples I'll list below here.

Lets say a Grand Theft Auto game comes out, MMORPG style. It incorporates elements from San Andreas such as...the more you run the more fit you are. The more you lift the stronger you are. But they build on it. The more you use a handgun, the more proficient you are with it etc...

You pay for the game and its expacs and get full access to the content.

Now for the micro-transactions.

Lets say a player character has a house and has access to a in game computer. Guess what? You get to use real money to buy mp3s on it for your in game "mp3 player". For a fee, you now have in game Napster.

OR

You can go into an "in game" auto body shop and "pimp" your car for real money.

These will all be fluff activities that have no overall bearing on the game, character advantage, or story. Just bragging rights.

Thoughts?

Edit* This is just an example, not advocating, just where I see future online gaming headed. LOL can you tell my head was brainstorming lately, sheesh. Time to get back to work now!

Envoyé par nikito

Greed. It will over take all companies. Its the "american" way. /sigh.

<snip>

Perfect time for one of the best movie quotes ever

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.

The Adventurer's Pack was a micro transaction, and it was implemented well. I didn't buy it, but I thought hard about it on one of my 3 accounts, for the extra slots and especially the shared storage. Not necessary to play everything the game has to offer, but more of a convenience.

I am of a mind that as long as it doesn't affect actual game accessibility or playability, bring it on. The Company can always use the cash, and some players value the items enough to pay for it. People would gladly pay for 30 new cosmetic outfits and 30 new Emotes for RP-ing. We aren't talking Stat armour and skills, after all. When that line is crossed, then it becomes an issue.

Envoyé par Trilwych

I'm so sick of uneducated people dropping red-button terms like "socialist" without knowing their definitions or applications. Let's nip this in the bud since you're the first to bring it up.

Private companies working under capitalistic principles are just evolving with changing business models. This isn't wrong in itself, nor would I classify a microtrans model as being "greedy." Greed under the capitalist model requires more extremism to me--i.e. stepping over ethical/moral boundaries. There is nothing intrinsically unethical in the MT business model because gaming is so utterly unnecessary and a privilege (not a right) where consumers ultimately have absolute control over its success.

Socialism, whether you're talking about political or economic forms or a combination thereof, has to do with beliefs in various rights superceding privilege. The absolute basic gist is that capitalism unfairly concentrates both wealth and power in a small segment of an entire population. How on Middle Earth do you get from American corporate greed to a (anti)socialist argument? Turbine isn't directing health care or building roads or watching water quality or...anything to do with redistribution of production wealth either. This and that are completely unrelated.

Don't muddy the waters on an already hot topic with inappropriately used terms like that. It doesn't further your argument at all.

As for microtransaction application in games... Well, I guess I don't really care. If I don't like it--if I calculate benefits against actual expenditure and decide it doesn't add up for me--then I won't pay for it. Period. There is no "milking" involved, no filching, no theft, no GREED... because the entire industry is optional entertainment. Jesus, get that through your heads. You have no rights here besides the time you paid for server access.

You are not attempting to buy health insurance from for-profit companies that won't cover you because you have a pre-existing cancer condition and were laid off. THAT is greed.

Nicely said. I just tend to cut to the quick with something like, "Moron- your bus is leaving." But that's just me.