Thread: Tactical Nerf Sez Whut?!

I decided to blow the dust off my 61 warrior-skald mini today, and ran him through a skirmish just to stretch his legs. This was his first meaningful outing since Vol. III rolled out.

Holy spit on the doorknob, Batman...what the heck did they do to the resists and tactical damage rates on the mini?! I thought my LM got whacked bad with the nerf bat, but I was getting resisted left, right and center and even when they landed they were doing a fraction of what they used to.

I normally run through Trouble in Tuckborough on my toons if I don't do any other dailies, so I know my way around the skirmish. The resists and damage was so poor, I died, over and over (4 times total), plus lost 2 bounders, and lost my "Protector" soldier more times than I could count.

So what gives with the resist rates out the wazoo, the (at least seemingly) diminished damage (on what is supposed to be the dps build for the class), and other tactically-based buggery that's taken place since V3 hit the streets?

Pretty lame typical mmo post imo.

You brought out a char you haven't used in awhile, and played him for maybe a half an hour.

He didn't instantly blow up everything is sight so you come cry to the forums.

Use the search function, do some research on your own how to play you char better, then come make an informed post on what you think isn't working.

not just omg my win button is removed... buggy tacticaly other hot word inserted here that will get attention halpppppp!!!!!!!!

Okay, I'll play your little game.

Pretty lame typical forum troll "lrn 2 ply nub" response.

I didn't fall off the turnip truck this morning, jackhole. I suspected if there was a change to the overall schema of tactical resistances, that the minstrel would be a class caught in the crosshairs. I didn't realize the extent they were until I played the toon again, and thought I'd comment.

Don't like it or agree with it? Fine, your prerogative. Say so, and move on. Or be a total douchebag and condescend and belittle the very notion someone has an issue worth sharing with the community. Your choice. I see which direction you went with. Bravo. /golf_clap

Originally Posted by gskgsadz

Pretty lame typical mmo post imo.

You brought out a char you haven't used in awhile, and played him for maybe a half an hour.

He didn't instantly blow up everything is sight so you come cry to the forums.

Use the search function, do some research on your own how to play you char better, then come make an informed post on what you think isn't working.

not just omg my win button is removed... buggy tacticaly other hot word inserted here that will get attention halpppppp!!!!!!!!

These are the ones that talk big online to make up for super small ***** they have IRL.

Originally Posted by Verhalas

These are the ones that talk big online to make up for super small ***** they have IRL.

Ooh, that would explain things. Heck, he should have just said so, here's something that should make him much happier:

LOL at the attempt to rerail this derailed thread =P

I'm surprised to hear you had so many issues to be honest -- then again I play a totally different minstrel than the typical DPS war speech style (I was level 50 when war speech got introduced to the game so got used to a certain way -- slower but effective *chuckle*)

My only advice would be to look at your book and look for things like ballad resist rating and song resist rating reducing legacies. That should help with the amount of resists -- although from the sheer struggle you had it could be you had a bad string of RNG issues.

Try a few more times and if you still see a high amount of resists -- there's an official sticky thread on this subject in the general discussion area.

Best of luck to you! You may just need to change some playstyle habits, get a new book, or both.

Originally Posted by musicman2000

LOL at the attempt to rerail this derailed thread =P

I'm surprised to hear you had so many issues to be honest -- then again I play a totally different minstrel than the typical DPS war speech style (I was level 50 when war speech got introduced to the game so got used to a certain way -- slower but effective *chuckle*)

My only advice would be to look at your book and look for things like ballad resist rating and song resist rating reducing legacies. That should help with the amount of resists -- although from the sheer struggle you had it could be you had a bad string of RNG issues.

Try a few more times and if you still see a high amount of resists -- there's an official sticky thread on this subject in the general discussion area.

Best of luck to you! You may just need to change some playstyle habits, get a new book, or both.

Thanks MM2K

I more than likely need a new book and a new weapon...both are mid-50's (2nd age tho, and I really like them) and are probably gimping the snot out of me. There's a big part of me that REALLY dislikes the whole LI system, but that's neither here nor there. I likely also need to upgrade my jewelry, which hasn't seen a major update again since around the mid-50's.

It just surprised me that I was seeing as many resists as I was, and I know the damage output wasn't what it was pre-Vol. III. Again, probably quite likely due to the way they "re-tooled" some of the LI's and the way they work. I guess I expected some changes, but not to be totally butt-pwned by even-con Tier 1 skirmish mobs. Oh how wrong I was.

Thanks again for the tips...guess I have some research to do on my mini. That's the problem with playing too many alts...a weakness of mine. Heh!

Ballad Resists, maybe.

Song Resist, Song of Soothing, Song of Distraction, Song of the Dead. No thanks.

Call to War Skills Resistance, I'll take x2 anyday.

Another legacy that might be worth having the initial legacy but not ranking is EoB Resist Debuff. Maybe worth ranking if you have a dedicated WS book.

Our Ballads, Calls and Cries have Cry Resistance.

Originally Posted by Amonceleb

stuff

I dusted off my 60 mini yesterday and experienced about the same results as you. On multiple occasions, EoB was resisted twice in a row. My wep doesn't have the - Call to War resist on it and my book doesn't have any of the -resist legacies on it, either (didn't need any of them the last time I played the mini). I'm really just levelling this toon for crafting, so I prolly won't bother grinding LI's to get some with those legacies. Also I think it's more than a little silly to have to find legacies to bring mob resistances back to the point they were pre-MoM.

Originally Posted by theven

I dusted off my 60 mini yesterday and experienced about the same results as you. On multiple occasions, EoB was resisted twice in a row. My wep doesn't have the - Call to War resist on it and my book doesn't have any of the -resist legacies on it, either (didn't need any of them the last time I played the mini). I'm really just levelling this toon for crafting, so I prolly won't bother grinding LI's to get some with those legacies. Also I think it's more than a little silly to have to find legacies to bring mob resistances back to the point they were pre-MoM.

As much as I was saddened by the tactical resist change, I was never resisted pre-SOM. It would be nice to see the middle of the road. I have a feeling Turbine is happy with our numbers now. To be a viable DPS replacement as a healing class makes me happy. Even with resists. But then again I play my mini as my main and have built him to make his weakest points his strengths.

More resists, yes, but damage is still just as high. I'm still using a lvl 60 2nd age weapon and doing very decent damage (not that a lvl 65 is much higher tac damage wise).

I can understand the annoyance of higher resistance, but nothing is wrong with the damage.

The OP's minstrel is a hobbit and not a dwarf. That's your problem right there.

noob

Originally Posted by bubbajman

Ballad Resists, maybe.

Song Resist, Song of Soothing, Song of Distraction, Song of the Dead. No thanks.

Call to War Skills Resistance, I'll take x2 anyday.

Another legacy that might be worth having the initial legacy but not ranking is EoB Resist Debuff. Maybe worth ranking if you have a dedicated WS book.

Our Ballads, Calls and Cries have Cry Resistance.

Hehe I was going to say, does he have Song Resist, Ballad Resist and War Skill Resistance Legacies on his LIs, and they are ranked so unlike many Minstrels have when I inspect them after their complaints of too many resist/I die alot cries... and they hardly have these legacies and if they do it's at rank 1.

I also question playstyle, I'm not a Warrior Skald anything, light armour wearing pure healing build and I hardly died in any of the skirmishes... but of course i doubled dipped on the Healing/Power regen having a Herbalist at rank 16 everything saving my War-Speeched behind.

Didn't Book III change the damage modifier on our legendary weapons from melee to tactical? If you haven't put any points into that, it might make some difference, too.

Originally Posted by bubbajman

Ballad Resists, maybe.

Song Resist, Song of Soothing, Song of Distraction, Song of the Dead. No thanks.

Call to War Skills Resistance, I'll take x2 anyday.

Another legacy that might be worth having the initial legacy but not ranking is EoB Resist Debuff. Maybe worth ranking if you have a dedicated WS book.

Our Ballads, Calls and Cries have Cry Resistance.

I agree about the call to war skills however:

Song of Distraction is invaluable while soloing as a minstrel (and grouping now for skirmishes)-- remove one mob from a 2 or 3 mob pull OR wait out the cooldown and distract a few mobs.

Ballad resists help more when trying to tier up in group play than solo I agree -- though you still can put out a lot of dps while spamming ballads if you have +ballad damage on your weapons.

Just where i was coming from -- then again I"m an old school minnie who was level 50 pre war speech so I tend to do things a lot differently from modern minnies probably. Either way it gets the job done =P. I don't sit in war speech the entire time I'm soloing something so having ballad resist is super valuable to me.

The resists in general are pretty lame ATM in Lotro.
12 of us were in BG last night, and the general consensus was that the new resists were the worst choice turbine has made so far in changes.




EDIT: IMO the resists are a tad bit high, some of the skills I see resisted on all classes make me go :O

I have completely lost my passion to play the game recently and this change is one reason why.

It's going to take me much longer now to solo through skirms to get those weapons/books upgraded. And this is the proverbial straw for me.

There's many other reasons I've pretty much limited my play time to about an 1 hour a week. But that's a different thread.

I had a similar issue when I tried out my mini post V3. One problem I had was that the first time I logged in on my mini post V3, my damage numbers were all staying on the bottom of the range (after accounting for mitigation) except on crits. The next time I logged in it was a bit better, so may have been a bug? Damage is down, weakness is up... but what else is new? I gave up running Warrior Skald for more or less my SOA build a while back to improve survivability, and yes even in that build damage is down, but I cant say I am too surprised... this is Turbine we are talking about.

Just as an update: I was telling folks in kinchat about my dilemma with my min (okay...I was whining...heheh!) Despite the fact that I had two fairly decent (on paper) 2nd agers, they were pre-SoM, and apparently quite teh suq.

A couple of kinmates whipped up some reforged 2nd agers (a nice healing book, and a real nice club.) They're only level 60, but I can already tell the difference, both in terms of damage and heals. Not so much where I'm the almighty slayer of all I survey, but much better.

Still broke my heart to de-con that club...it was nice...had all lvl 5/6 legs on it, but it was only lvl 54. /sigh Buuut...when I de-conned it, it gave me a nice juicy IXP ball, and 8 legendary shards, so it was all good.

The IXP sphere brought my new club up to lvl 49 right off the bat, so pretty sweet there too.

In order to avoid resists nowadays it is very important to have a dedicated Warspeech weapon and songbook.

The weapon should have:
Call to War Resists
Piercing Cry Dmg
Call of Orome Dmg
Call to Fate Crit Multiplier
Call of the Second Age Targets(if you can get it along with the others)

Your songbook should have:
Target Ballad Resist
Echoes of Battle Resist
Song of the Dead Cooldown (not needed but nice to have)

If you get those maxed you'll be fine. You'll especially notice a difference with the dedicated resist songbook. It's nice also if you can find +Tier 1 Ballad Dmg on your weapon but not required.

Runekeepers mean more sales (you need moria) so they are going to keep ruining minstrels. It's been happening since MOM came out. Nothing new. I'm hoping WB takes an interest in how badly things in game are being handled and puts a completely new team in place. Fresh eyes might see things more clearly. *goes back to playing Dragon Age*

Note: If ALL those upset by the recent and ongoing minstrel changes parked their minstrels we'd see how fast they'd do anything about. If they ignore it, then we have our answer.

Originally Posted by Yaaraer

Runekeepers mean more sales (you need moria) so they are going to keep ruining minstrels. It's been happening since MOM came out. Nothing new. I'm hoping WB takes an interest in how badly things in game are being handled and puts a completely new team in place. Fresh eyes might see things more clearly. *goes back to playing Dragon Age*

Note: If ALL those upset by the recent and ongoing minstrel changes parked their minstrels we'd see how fast they'd do anything about. If they ignore it, then we have our answer.

Yes, because Minstrels were a primary dps class before RK's came along.

Yep, resists are way out of whack.

The biggest question for me is why the changes? During Mines of Moria, characters received HUGE buffs because Turbine stated it wanted combat to be faster. And it was. Mobs fell in the blink of an eye.

Maybe it was too fast. However, with resists and dps nerfs since, combat can be unnervingly slow at times, especially for some classes.

I don't get it. Does Turbine want faster mob kills or not?

Originally Posted by Yesler

In order to avoid resists nowadays it is very important to have a dedicated Warspeech weapon and songbook.

The weapon should have:
Call to War Resists


Your songbook should have:
Target Ballad Resist
Echoes of Battle Resist


If you get those maxed you'll be fine. You'll especially notice a difference with the dedicated resist songbook.

I do in fact have all three resist legacies maxed out, which were higher on my level 60 second ages than on my 65 third ages. And I still see resists reguarly. Sometimes multiple times in a row.

I just want to pop in for something about skirmies... I used to run a protector. Found that I really couldn't run with a WS build because especially the encounters were long and slow and sometimes deadly. Ran a few group skirmies and for the heck of it built an Herbalist so that my Protector wouldn't keep stealing aggro from the tank (Ultimate threat is pretty good!). Then one day I forgot to switch back to my protector, and had my herbalist in a solo skirmy. Long story short, I liked the herbalist so much that it's now my main skirmy pet. I can stay in WS for almost anything, and I kill stuff quick, and having Ultimate power regen on the herbalist means I also use less pots. So, something to think about

Yesler said that we should have dedicated WS items - I gotta admit I don't, I used to but haven't found anything I really like lately so I just use my healy items, and I have to admit, I don't seem to have a lot of trouble with resists and stuff. Could be because my will and fate are at max and I have a lot of jewelry with tactical crit on it... or I could just be lucky

After going back on my Mini fulltime I've notice more resists despite the 2 out of 4 Legacies I possess on my LIs.

What non-Minstrel players forget there's alot of solo content, skirms and don't forget daily quests, if your Ranged or melee class started to get parried and blocked and evaded 2x more often, would you not complain?

With that said we have at least 4 Legacies just for tactical Resists... I think that's too many IMO. These are Echoes of Battle Resist, Call of War Skill resist, Target Ballad Resist, and Song Resist... wow, like wow.

With the changes made to tactical resists, I have had few problems on my min and my LM - (my min has -WS resist and LM -tact damage resist), whereas my RK has boatloads of resists. (Perhaps it's because the RK really doesn't have legacies which are -resist skills, only -penetrate legacy.) Anyway - I'd recommend getting a weapon with -WS,ballad resist and another thing I would do is change up amour/jewellery etc to maximize your Will. (Even if you are getting resists, at the very least you'll be hitting harder.) gl

Originally Posted by Ripflex

With that said we have at least 4 Legacies just for tactical Resists... I think that's too many IMO. These are Echoes of Battle Resist, Call of War Skill resist, Target Ballad Resist, and Song Resist... wow, like wow.

Song Resist doesn't seem to have any impact on tactical resists, since we only have a few skills listed that use Song resist:

-Song of Soothing
-Song of Distraction
-Song of the Dead

So you can skip that legacy, unless you get it on a healing songbook and you want to keep your song of soothing resists low. Or if you have a utility songbook for things like distraction and undead mez.

Originally Posted by spiderwort

With the changes made to tactical resists, I have had few problems on my min and my LM - (my min has -WS resist and LM -tact damage resist), whereas my RK has boatloads of resists. (Perhaps it's because the RK really doesn't have legacies which are -resist skills

I do have to agree, my Cappy's calls get resited way more often than my mini's. It's like a 50/50 shot. But since she has so many non-tac skills it bothers me less on her.
I've taken the time to find a book with all 3 resists, a weapon with it, grinded and leveled them, put echos of battle on something and then still see multiple resists... I feel like I'm allowed to grumble.

Tactical has not been loved at all since the launch of MoM.

IMO Tactical has really taken a huge nose dive and the amount of resists, coupled with block, parry, and complete misses makes it at times difficult to play a solo DPS mini IMO.

I find it quite odd that something like a 'bat' can parry an shout.. or that your piercing cry can actually completely 'miss' .. *looks around blankly for a while trying to comprehend this*

Mini's are made for healing sadly, Warrior Skald needs some buffs personally.

I parked my Minstrel and my sub, I don't enjoy the game with the constant need to relearn things every patch. Maybe in a year or so it'll be better. Till then, adios..