Thread: Understanding Captain Tanking

I'm a recent addition to LotRO, maybe about 2 months or so under my belt, playing rather casually (or at least, more casual than I have played previous MMOs). I started LotRO with a group of friends, six of us generally being on at any given time. We generally do all the group content together (ie, we had our first GB run last week.)

As of this writing, we're all around lvl 25 or so. Our healing is pretty well covered, as we have a Mini, an LM, and me. Our other group members are a Hunter, a Burglar, and a Guardian. Because of this arrangement, I find that I'm often needed more for Off-Tanking, rather than healing (which I am absolutely fine with -- I'm more of a Tank player anyway.)

As I stated, we had our first GB run last week, and afterwards I came away with a lot of questions. Some about tanking in LotRO in general, and some about tanking with a Captain specifically.

1) For Captains, it seems that we are forced to make the decision on whether we want more Threat, or more Survivability. We apparently already have less Morale than Guardians (understandable, not an issue in my mind). But then we have to decide, Halberd for extra Threat, or SnB for more survivability (including more stats like Vitality, etc).

Is this a correct assessment? We don't have a direct Taunt like the other tanky classes as far as I can see. So it stands to reason that we need to up our threat generation even more. Am I misreading this situation?

2) With no direct taunt, peeling mobs off of caster/healers/other squishies seems kind of rough. If I can toss Noble Mark up on a mob at the start of a pull and then beat on it for awhile, I seem to have aggro well in hand by the time the rest of my Fellowship gets to it. If I'm trying to save a healer from the extra mob, it's almost a **** shoot as to whether or not I'll be able to get him off in time. Is there a better way to do this?

3) How viable are Captains as OTs (or even just tanks in general) at endgame? Most threads, posts and guides want to talk about our healing. Is this a pigeon-holed class, a la old school WoW paladins?

4) Guardians don't seem to be able to generate massive amounts of aggro in a short period of time, especially not with large numbers of mobs. Does this change in endgame? I'm just wondering how best to support my MT buddy.

Thanks for indulging my curiousity. Any guidance will be appreciated.

I would start by saying that tanking ability of various classes is pretty limited at your level. That being said, by your level, the guard has a fair number of tanking tools at his disposal. You have a few. Cappies are not great tanks, but we can do a reasonable job if we want to work at it.


From my standpoint, for off-tanking, the additional damage and very limited additional threat of a halberd is going to be more useful than the damage mitigation of sword and board unless you are taking very serious damage that your minstrel can't keep up with. This shouldn't happen and, if you are, the guard should take the mobs off you. Your main job as off-tank is to keep aggro off the minstrel and, to a lesser extent the LM and hunter. Unless the hunter is in Strength Stance, in which case he deserves whatever he gets.

In addition to the halberd passive and direct damage, you have a number of tools at your disposal by level 30.

At level 12 Noble mark gives aggro over time. This won't give you auto aggro but it is useful to put on loose targets to pull their attention on you rather than the healer.

At level 26 Threatening Shout. This isn't as impressive as the champ and guard versions, but does raise your threat level and should pull most mobs off of the healer. It isn't going to save a hunter in Strength Stance though.

Finally, you have a stealth aggro tool: healing. I like to spam heals when I off-tank, and generally set up HoT through words of courage before initiating a fight. This gives me and the main tank a head start in gathering up aggro before the healer starts doing their thing.

Last note: learning aggro management at low levels can be tough (both because of inexperience and lack of tools), but it is well worth it for later success. Aggro management is not, however, just the job of the tank and off-tank: everybody should be thinking about it and working together.

If you want to keep more threat on one main boss with sword and board you need to use Noble Mark and Threatening Shout and they will usually stay on you. The Noble Mark builds threat over time, but the fellowship will need to let you build up the threat for a few hits from you alone.
I have been the only tank for Grand Stairs, etc.. that way and was able to hold aggro with sword and board with the method above.
Hope that this will help you on doing that.

Originally Posted by seyahat

At level 12 Noble mark gives aggro over time. This won't give you auto aggro but it is useful to put on loose targets to pull their attention on you rather than the healer.

At level 26 Threatening Shout. This isn't as impressive as the champ and guard versions, but does raise your threat level and should pull most mobs off of the healer. It isn't going to save a hunter in Strength Stance though.

Finally, you have a stealth aggro tool: healing. I like to spam heals when I off-tank, and generally set up HoT through words of courage before initiating a fight. This gives me and the main tank a head start in gathering up aggro before the healer starts doing their thing.

Ah, so I'm one level away from a "taunt" as it were. Okay, that will be helpful.

The healing aggro is a good call. Maybe I'll Noble Mark my target, and then throw the first hot on the MT, should give me an edge hopefully.

I was actually not taking that much damage, I was surprised. So basically, stick with the Halberd unless it's a heavy damage mob? Threat definitely seemed to be the bigger issue than survivability.

As far as Stats, what would you say are the most important? Vitality obviously, and my Parry rating is apparently dependant on my Might from what I'm reading? On the B/P/E scale, if I'm going mostly Halberd, block will be worthless and I'll need to focus on P/E. And of course, the defenses.

Sorry if these are completely noob questions, but all the Captain guides seem to be heal heavy with a small side dish of "(/whisper) oh yeah, we can tank too a little bit."

Originally Posted by adamantiumdragon

The Noble Mark builds threat over time, but the fellowship will need to let you build up the threat for a few hits from you alone.

Yeah, I noticed that if I had some "alone time" with the mob before the rest of the fellowship jumped in, he was pretty well stuck on me like honey. But if I was trying to pull them off a healer ... yipe.

There is the occasional pull/situation where you don't want an HoT going, but for your level and general questing, put a heal on which ever class is doing the pulling, then stand next to the guardian. You'll get the initial aggro, and then your guardian can collect the mobs more easily, especially as the guardian gains more threat generating skills.

None of you have all the skills yet to make life easier, but in general:

• If the tank is pulling and there are multiples, put a heal on the guardian and stand next to him/her. Everything runs to you folks.
• If a LRM is doing a group root/mez pull, put a heal on them as they pull, then any stray mobs will run to you and the guardian.
• Have a heal going on the minstrel because they look tasty to mobs no matter who does the pulling.

Captains have a lot more control over aggro during a pull than most realize. There are times when your group heal will still be running as the next mobs come in--expect that you *will* be the center of attention. If you need to pull something off another class, be sure to get a heal on them as you are also taunting and doing damage. Also, let your fellowship mates know that if they want you to pull something off of them, they can't also be hitting it, they need to ignore it for a few hit's worth of time.

ETA: Buffing also generates aggro/threat. If all else fails, rebuff your fellow or the group. Sure, it's a minor threat generator, but it might be enough to tip the scale when needed.

As for stats, captains generally run fairly balanced between the basic stats of might/agl/vit/fat/will. The reason being, we have so many jobs. Give up too much might, and you aren't hitting very hard--give up too much agility or vitality, and you are taking a lot of damage and don't have enough morale to stay up--give up too much fate or will, and your power is a problem. At your levels, changing gear frequently, you probably will always have one stat lower than you want it, so just work towards a balance as a long-term goal.

Originally Posted by Lupini

ETA: Buffing also generates aggro/threat. If all else fails, rebuff your fellow or the group. Sure, it's a minor threat generator, but it might be enough to tip the scale when needed.

Thank you for answering a question I'd forgotten to ask. I knew buffing in other games could generate aggro, but I wasn't sure whether or not that was the case in LoTRO.

The rest of these tips are awesome too. I'm assuming there's some sort of Proximity modifiers for threat ingame as well? (ie, mobs generally don't like to run off to attack a more distant target unless that target's aggro generation is excessive.)

Originally Posted by TrystaneArryn

I'm a recent addition to LotRO, maybe about 2 months or so under my belt, playing rather casually (or at least, more casual than I have played previous MMOs). I started LotRO with a group of friends, six of us generally being on at any given time. We generally do all the group content together (ie, we had our first GB run last week.)

As of this writing, we're all around lvl 25 or so. Our healing is pretty well covered, as we have a Mini, an LM, and me. Our other group members are a Hunter, a Burglar, and a Guardian. Because of this arrangement, I find that I'm often needed more for Off-Tanking, rather than healing (which I am absolutely fine with -- I'm more of a Tank player anyway.)

As I stated, we had our first GB run last week, and afterwards I came away with a lot of questions. Some about tanking in LotRO in general, and some about tanking with a Captain specifically.

1) For Captains, it seems that we are forced to make the decision on whether we want more Threat, or more Survivability. We apparently already have less Morale than Guardians (understandable, not an issue in my mind). But then we have to decide, Halberd for extra Threat, or SnB for more survivability (including more stats like Vitality, etc).

At the moment you may have to do some choices though if you stick with the classes you will realize the whole subtle game of the captain. Some will only focus one one thing, but you may mix all the stuff altogether and do something great. No worry if you play it right you may finish with a lot more morale then guardian.

Is this a correct assessment? We don't have a direct Taunt like the other tanky classes as far as I can see. So it stands to reason that we need to up our threat generation even more. Am I misreading this situation?

2) With no direct taunt, peeling mobs off of caster/healers/other squishies seems kind of rough. If I can toss Noble Mark up on a mob at the start of a pull and then beat on it for awhile, I seem to have aggro well in hand by the time the rest of my Fellowship gets to it. If I'm trying to save a healer from the extra mob, it's almost a **** shoot as to whether or not I'll be able to get him off in time. Is there a better way to do this?

First, you have a direct taunt (but doesn't force aggro) and later you will get a force aggro with LtC. But let start with aggro management 101, imo the best place in aggro list would be 2nd position just under the tank and above the healer, so if the tank ever loose the aggro it goes for you. Getting aggro from one or two mobs that are jumping the healer isn't to hard, especially with an halberd, 1 or 2 good hits and they are now on you.

3) How viable are Captains as OTs (or even just tanks in general) at endgame? Most threads, posts and guides want to talk about our healing. Is this a pigeon-holed class, a la old school WoW paladins?

End-Game talking you can MT no problem, some of us were tanking final raid boss back in SoA without a sweat. Oh and one thing, WoW isn`t oldschool.

4) Guardians don't seem to be able to generate massive amounts of aggro in a short period of time, especially not with large numbers of mobs. Does this change in endgame? I'm just wondering how best to support my MT buddy.

??? Never had problem generating or keeping aggro with a guard. Sometime it stressful but when you are used to play with the people, the people knows your limit. Communication, Coordination and Cooperation are the 3C for a win.

Thanks for indulging my curiousity. Any guidance will be appreciated.

You are welcome.

Originally Posted by TrystaneArryn

I'm a recent addition to LotRO, maybe about 2 months or so under my belt, playing rather casually (or at least, more casual than I have played previous MMOs). I started LotRO with a group of friends, six of us generally being on at any given time. We generally do all the group content together (ie, we had our first GB run last week.)

As of this writing, we're all around lvl 25 or so. Our healing is pretty well covered, as we have a Mini, an LM, and me. Our other group members are a Hunter, a Burglar, and a Guardian. Because of this arrangement, I find that I'm often needed more for Off-Tanking, rather than healing (which I am absolutely fine with -- I'm more of a Tank player anyway.)

As I stated, we had our first GB run last week, and afterwards I came away with a lot of questions. Some about tanking in LotRO in general, and some about tanking with a Captain specifically.

1) For Captains, it seems that we are forced to make the decision on whether we want more Threat, or more Survivability. We apparently already have less Morale than Guardians (understandable, not an issue in my mind). But then we have to decide, Halberd for extra Threat, or SnB for more survivability (including more stats like Vitality, etc).

Is this a correct assessment? We don't have a direct Taunt like the other tanky classes as far as I can see. So it stands to reason that we need to up our threat generation even more. Am I misreading this situation?

2) With no direct taunt, peeling mobs off of caster/healers/other squishies seems kind of rough. If I can toss Noble Mark up on a mob at the start of a pull and then beat on it for awhile, I seem to have aggro well in hand by the time the rest of my Fellowship gets to it. If I'm trying to save a healer from the extra mob, it's almost a **** shoot as to whether or not I'll be able to get him off in time. Is there a better way to do this?

3) How viable are Captains as OTs (or even just tanks in general) at endgame? Most threads, posts and guides want to talk about our healing. Is this a pigeon-holed class, a la old school WoW paladins?

4) Guardians don't seem to be able to generate massive amounts of aggro in a short period of time, especially not with large numbers of mobs. Does this change in endgame? I'm just wondering how best to support my MT buddy.

Thanks for indulging my curiousity. Any guidance will be appreciated.

Short on time or i'd respond to all of your points, but as far as #2 goes, you should be getting threatening shout soon, that will help. til then, start healing. i regularly pull mobs off the minnie in SG (an end content instance) by merely healing the minnie a few times. put your mark on, and start healing, you should peel threat off in 3-4 heals along with attacks.

1) There is not a big difference when you switch between a shield and a two hander, because you can only use light shields. You are better off using a Halberd. Once you get legendary items, you might find a really good one handed weapons and there are a couple of nice light shields...but again, it's light shields.

2) You do have a single taunt, I forget what level you get it at. 15 second cooldown. Noble Mark + Halberd and that taunt is good for holding aggro on ONE mob. You have no AE taunts and you will forever be running into trouble holding any type of aggro on multi-pull encounters.

3) Captains are fine as off tanks. So are other classes though, a LM pet bear, Champs...

4) Guardians are fine, Captains are the ones that have a hard time generating aggro.

Captains are not MTs. When you run instances the pulls will be elites with an occasional elite master. Those are the trash pulls and you are fine tanking them, the mobs dont last very long. Once you get to raids and bosses, you wont be tanking much.

Captains just dont have the skills that Guardians/Wardens have to tank. Better to be the back up healer because that is a job you can actually do.

You can tank three man instances fine, but other classes can do so as well.