The RK/Mini that has more experience playing as a healer...both are effective, but if both are mostly DPS players, they wont know how to use their healing skills for the most effect.
Electoric-65RK; Adanador-63Hnt; Misscreant-54Burg; Galock - BA
Who would you ratehr use in a fellow for healing
Lvl 65 mini
Lvl 65 RK
Discuss.
Even with equal player skill level, it would still depend on the fight in question. Assuming you're only taking into consideration healing output, and ignoring the other things the two classes bring to the table, RKs are better at consistent healing output, which is great for counteracting DoTs, either group-wide or single target. Minstrels are better for burst healing, which allows them to more safely heal a boss with random aggro. Either are perfectly capable of healing a tank through almost anything (though for some situations the RK is better suited to this), and both have powerful group heals and emergency skills (though the minstrel has more of the latter). If you know the fight in question well, these qualities would allow you to pick out the optimal healer for your situation. Of course, given the difficulty level of most of the content in the game, optimality is rarely particularly relevant, so given equal skill level it really won't make that much of a difference which you take.
In 95% of the game either way is fine. On the harder instances having both is huge. I typically will distribute healing across the group after tiering up and bubbling the tank. Then the Mini can come in a distribute group heals or spike heals to keep up with the aoe and devestating attacks. helps us both consever power and ensures we dont lose off tank or dps classes.
As opposed to which is better i think they are 2 of the most complimentary classes.
I like both, but the rk defintiely has to have more experience then a mini because it is a little bit harder for an rk to heal. If the rk is experienced, i like the rk better
I actually like the rk, because I like the constant stream of morale, rather than big boosts of it. As a warden I'm more susceptible to spike damage, and the yo-yo-ing that comes with minstrel heals can be a little distressing.
Minstrel by far and away. Minstrels can efficiently target heals when and where they are needed. I can also rez people who actually need a rez...and not send them to purgatory and/or reset the instance.
My husband and I parsed a turtle-run log to compare his healing RK to my minstrel, and the minnie blew him out of the water. I was able to heal for something like 5 times as much as his RK, even when we accounted for the AoE heal from his stone (which wasn't counted by the program we were using). He'd brought up his RK to be a healer, but after that little experiment he banished his RK to PvP and rolled a minstrel.
RKs also have the nasty habit of nuking at the start of the fight. They either pull all sorts of aggro and die or waste all their power on dps and have nothing left to heal with.
My husband and I parsed a turtle-run log to compare his healing RK to my minstrel, and the minnie blew him out of the water. I was able to heal for something like 5 times as much as his RK, even when we accounted for the AoE heal from his stone (which wasn't counted by the program we were using). He'd brought up his RK to be a healer, but after that little experiment he banished his RK to PvP and rolled a minstrel.
I'm sorry, but there is no way a competent healing RK will be outhealed 5X by a minstrel. I heal on both, and although they heal differently, the total healing they can output is roughly the same.
As I said above, my kin usually runs BG w/ 2 minstrels. Yet we were also able to do it with 2 RKs. If the RKs where healing 20% of the minstrels there would be no chance of success.
Going on Hiatus until this statement becomes true: "The LOTRO Store will offer convenience, not advantage." -Patience
Minstrel by far and away. Minstrels can efficiently target heals when and where they are needed. I can also rez people who actually need a rez...and not send them to purgatory and/or reset the instance.
My husband and I parsed a turtle-run log to compare his healing RK to my minstrel, and the minnie blew him out of the water. I was able to heal for something like 5 times as much as his RK, even when we accounted for the AoE heal from his stone (which wasn't counted by the program we were using). He'd brought up his RK to be a healer, but after that little experiment he banished his RK to PvP and rolled a minstrel.
RKs also have the nasty habit of nuking at the start of the fight. They either pull all sorts of aggro and die or waste all their power on dps and have nothing left to heal with.
Oh crud...this is on the RK board?? /feign_death
There's so many variables of this that you left out...
1. Which is better geared/traited?
2. Which has more Will?
3. What were the levels at which you did this?
4. What are your settings/LI legacies? Is one toon's perfect the other not so much?
5. What healing RK nukes at the start of the fight? O.O /puzzled
6. Pre or Post SoM?
7. Incoming Healing of group members?
8. Wondrous Foreshadowing whenever it's up? Perma-ballads for incoming healing?
9. What was the ICPR of mini/RK?
10. Were you parsing for the same amount of time? (I guess, did he start after you)?
11. Were either of you having power issues? Was one of you being fed LM power and the other wasn't?
12. Which one of you was in the group with the tank?
13. Which one had the squishier group (that could potentially require more healing)?
14. Did he burn his big heals? Did you burn TS or FSH?
There's WAY too much you left out to make that an accurate assumption... Post some actual numbers and details and maybe it's credible. As of now, that has no backing besides your word and possibly your husband's.
RK rez is fine as long as you don't die before they accept it, btw...
Last edited by huntermaniac; Mar 09 2010 at 03:41 PM.
Many RKs rolled the class for the zap and struggle with healing from lack of practice alone.
Good healing is good because the person - irrespective of class - is intuitive and quick on their feet, using every skill available. There are weak minstrel healers and weak RK healers.
Personally, in BG I like 2 minstrels for main heals and 1 RK that can switch to tank heals on certain fights (Twins especially).
♦ R13 Minstrel ♦ Guardians of the Dagorlad ♦ Jaiyne ♦
Overall I prefer having a minstrel healing because healers are ~ equal, but minstrels bring a lot of extra buffs too. Healer + buffs > healer. Its sad, but the truth is mins are usually the better choice because of this. Still either can get the job done.
I find healing on an rk more enjoyable though. I like healing 3 mans on rk cause I can do a lot of dps/heal switching to make the run go faster.
Minstrel by far and away. Minstrels can efficiently target heals when and where they are needed. I can also rez people who actually need a rez...and not send them to purgatory and/or reset the instance.
My husband and I parsed a turtle-run log to compare his healing RK to my minstrel, and the minnie blew him out of the water. I was able to heal for something like 5 times as much as his RK, even when we accounted for the AoE heal from his stone (which wasn't counted by the program we were using). He'd brought up his RK to be a healer, but after that little experiment he banished his RK to PvP and rolled a minstrel.
RKs also have the nasty habit of nuking at the start of the fight. They either pull all sorts of aggro and die or waste all their power on dps and have nothing left to heal with.
Oh crud...this is on the RK board?? /feign_death
Let's call fair, fair. I was DPSing for a lot of that turtle fight. :P
Anyway, I would be interested to see how my RK could heal a run like HoC or GS or SG with a good tank in tow. If I had a warden or a guard that really knew their stuff, I bet RKs and Minnies would be pretty interchangeable.
However, when aggro starts bouncing around, Minstrel have the ability to hit the "OH ****!" button a little easier than RKs.
One thing I ahve noticed, RKs are better at keeping ONE target healed than a Minny is. If I was healing SH, I would defy you to kill a guard my rk is healing, lol.
Overall I prefer having a minstrel healing because healers are ~ equal, but minstrels bring a lot of extra buffs too. Healer + buffs > healer. Its sad, but the truth is mins are usually the better choice because of this. Still either can get the job done.
This is situational though. In many cases, pulls and even some boss fights are easy enough that a healing RK can contribute a lot of damage to the fight. In that case, healer+DPS > healer+buffs (unless you are stacked w/ multiple champs and have 20% ballad of war up)
Also RKs have some amazing situational benefits: namely 1st and 2nd boss in SG, and Durchest HM in BG (I scoff at your raid-wide 2-5k fire/lightning attacks! )
Originally Posted by IowaHawk
However, when aggro starts bouncing around, Minstrel have the ability to hit the "OH ****!" button a little easier than RKs.
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Personally I prefer the RK's group bubble to Triumphant. Although the heal it gives is an HoT, it also provides an 8s (14s on the main tank) group wide bubble which does wonders to prevent damage. Plus you can't beat the RKs aggro dump; distracting winds FTW!
The biggest thing many people (including RKs) don't realize is that traiting and legendary legacies have a MASSIVE impact on RK healing ability. Far more so than for minnies.
Last edited by KainXI; Mar 09 2010 at 04:50 PM.
Going on Hiatus until this statement becomes true: "The LOTRO Store will offer convenience, not advantage." -Patience
This is situational though. In many cases, pulls and even some boss fights are easy enough that a healing RK can contribute a lot of damage to the fight. In that case, healer+DPS > healer+buffs (unless you are stacked w/ multiple champs and have 20% ballad of war up)
Also RKs have some amazing situational benefits: namely 1st and 2nd boss in SG, and Durchest HM in BG (I scoff at your raid-wide 2-5k fire/lightning attacks! )
Personally I prefer the RK's group bubble to Triumphant. Although the heal it gives is an HoT, it also provides an 8s (14s on the main tank) group wide bubble which does wonders to prevent damage. Plus you can't beat the RKs aggro dump; distracting winds FTW!
The biggest thing many people (including RKs) don't realize is that traiting and legendary legacies have a MASSIVE impact on RK healing ability. Far more so than for minnies.
As you can tell by my sig, my main is my Warden and over in our forum, we have several threads that shows the different "pools" of skills that are available at "A" initial ID and "B" 10, 20, and 30 levels...
Is there a thread or does anyone know what the "pools" are for the RK items.
Also, and more specifically to your quote above, what skills should I look for on a HEALING Stone and Satchel? I am the Main Healer for my Kin group of 6 that is leveling 1-65 and I am healing 90% of the time, except during solo missions and easy quests... (FYI I am level 40 now, but my Warden is on the search for RK LI's when I get to that level so I would like to know what to look for )
Let's call fair, fair. I was DPSing for a lot of that turtle fight. :P
Anyway, I would be interested to see how my RK could heal a run like HoC or GS or SG with a good tank in tow. If I had a warden or a guard that really knew their stuff, I bet RKs and Minnies would be pretty interchangeable.
However, when aggro starts bouncing around, Minstrel have the ability to hit the "OH ****!" button a little easier than RKs.
One thing I have noticed, RKs are better at keeping ONE target healed than a Minny is. If I was healing SH, I would defy you to kill a guard my rk is healing, lol.
My Rk's healed HoC, GS, and Sh with multiple tank types. I've even healed with hunters and burgs tanking. If you know how to heal on an RK, they rock.
My alternate Personality is Elyxthaxzus. Plz dont confuse us, were actually quite different.
This is situational though. In many cases, pulls and even some boss fights are easy enough that a healing RK can contribute a lot of damage to the fight. In that case, healer+DPS > healer+buffs (unless you are stacked w/ multiple champs and have 20% ballad of war up)
Also RKs have some amazing situational benefits: namely 1st and 2nd boss in SG, and Durchest HM in BG (I scoff at your raid-wide 2-5k fire/lightning attacks! )
Ya, but mini buffs aren't just BoW, you have tales, vit buff, evade buff, ctg, fire/fear resistance buffs, ctg and a few others. For raids your just as likely to have a dps rk who could keep the same buffs up.
Really for most cases where your healing + dpsing you could get by with just dps. A lot of the 3 man trash pulls can be just dpsed if your running with a group that has a bit of cc (hunter) or a group with a tank. Or in a 6 man a captain can heal a lot of the well cced pulls and you can just dps. While healing any fight a mini can be using ballads for damage and they actually have a melee skill. Add in say 20% extra damage from just one champ and its easily better then throwing in a FR every 3rd skill. WP is prob the only boss fights where you can be the sole healer and rotate between dps attune and heal attune in cycles. To chain multiple of one type in a row.
Originally Posted by KainXI
The biggest thing many people (including RKs) don't realize is that traiting and legendary legacies have a MASSIVE impact on RK healing ability. Far more so than for minnies.
Traiting has some impact, but not a massive impact you can heal a lot of stuff with a dps trait build like WP or SH HM or a lot of the moria instances in when we were lvl 60. I've done them in a 5/1/1 solo lightning build. Having the wrong traits is mostly just means more work for you as the healer. The main loss is in power costs, but we already enjoy pretty low healing power costs (as do minis) so its not that bad. Legendary traits are even less required and even when running a heal trait build I often don't use them. Although 1 minute duration GF is nice. Mini's depend on traits more then we do. I would say a dps traited rk heals way better then a dps traited mini and a no traits at all rk heals better then a no traits mini.
Legacies are the main component for our healing ability. Prob more then minis, although minis have quite a few good healing legacies too.
Seriously, like others said before, it depends on the fight, traits, the player abilities, whether it's cloudy outside, if dinner is ready, and what your favorite color is. Lots of variables.
However, when aggro starts bouncing around, Minstrel have the ability to hit the "OH ****!" button a little easier than RKs.
Yeah but my Oh **** buttons are only on a 10 min CD . I have healed everything but BG. I have decent gear which matches my play-style and skill usage. In the moors I can make someone pretty much invincible with hots and have pulled off some incredible saves.
Not saying better than a mini just different. I personally think in raid situation the most powerful thing you can have is one of each. Hot's are an incredibility powerful healing tool. I don't have to wait for damage or an long induction to start Hoting someone up. I don't have to anticipate or correct for spike damage the HOT's moderate those. Then I can easily bubble and adjust.
Last edited by JohnnyManeuvers; Mar 09 2010 at 05:57 PM.
-Kebelglash - Lvl 75 Rune-Keeper - Guardians of the Dagorlad
-Chans R7 War Leader, Chanakh R6 Warg <Agony> -Turak Stormbreaker - Lvl 75 Guardian
"Sam gave it back..."
Also, and more specifically to your quote above, what skills should I look for on a HEALING Stone and Satchel? I am the Main Healer for my Kin group of 6 that is leveling 1-65 and I am healing 90% of the time, except during solo missions and easy quests... (FYI I am level 40 now, but my Warden is on the search for RK LI's when I get to that level so I would like to know what to look for )
!
My stone and bag are pretty close to what I would consider ideal:
I try to mix a lot of Fiery Ridicule in while healing, so I even like fire damage on my healing stone
Going on Hiatus until this statement becomes true: "The LOTRO Store will offer convenience, not advantage." -Patience
My stone and bag are pretty close to what I would consider ideal:
No Word of Exaltation cooldown? Seems like that would be at least #3 after Mending and Writ; being able to bubble the tank nearly 25% of the time is pretty sexy.
Minstrel by far and away. Minstrels can efficiently target heals when and where they are needed. I can also rez people who actually need a rez...and not send them to purgatory and/or reset the instance.
My husband and I parsed a turtle-run log to compare his healing RK to my minstrel, and the minnie blew him out of the water. I was able to heal for something like 5 times as much as his RK, even when we accounted for the AoE heal from his stone (which wasn't counted by the program we were using). He'd brought up his RK to be a healer, but after that little experiment he banished his RK to PvP and rolled a minstrel.
RKs also have the nasty habit of nuking at the start of the fight. They either pull all sorts of aggro and die or waste all their power on dps and have nothing left to heal with.
Oh crud...this is on the RK board?? /feign_death
I've healed the turtle many times, and in my opinion RKs are if anything better suited to that fight. I even have anecdotal evidence (clearly the best kind): Recently a champ in my group decided that he was going to kill himself on this fight, so he activated fervour and went full-on DPS. The tank could not pull aggro from him with anything less than a force taunt, and with only one guard and a LM's bear in the group with force taunts they could not get aggro off long enough for him to lose his DoT. I decided I was going to try and heal him through it anyway, healing penalty or not. When the turtle died his DoT was ticking at 7500 on top of the room DoT, and he only had 7300 health, and I'd kept him up the entire time without his ever dropping fervour. The minstrel who was healing the other group commented that he could not possibly have managed that under any circumstances. I got lucky with cooldowns, and I think there was a captain in the group helping as well, but still.
Last edited by Telcharan; Mar 09 2010 at 11:32 PM.
I've had a Minstrel keep me (on my Guardian) up on a start to finish Turtle run as well. My DOT was ticking for the same ridiculous number too, and that was back before Moria when we were L60. It took a little luck on timing to survive the last two ticks but he got it done. It was pretty impressive. It's also equally anecdotal.
Both classes are fine healers, both classes bring special tools to the table, and both classes can be pegged as "better" depending on the particular fight or your group's makeup. For every group that's laughing because DNF to X made something a joke there's a group of stacked melees having a grand time because their healer is improving everyone's damage by 20%. Who I would rather have generally comes down to what friends want to run an instance and what alt they want to play.
7 Level 65s: Champ, Hunter, Guardian, Captain, RK, LM, Burglar All of them are sick of grinding Scrolls of Empowerment Awaiting change...
As you can tell by my sig, my main is my Warden and over in our forum, we have several threads that shows the different "pools" of skills that are available at "A" initial ID and "B" 10, 20, and 30 levels...
Is there a thread or does anyone know what the "pools" are for the RK items.
Also, and more specifically to your quote above, what skills should I look for on a HEALING Stone and Satchel? I am the Main Healer for my Kin group of 6 that is leveling 1-65 and I am healing 90% of the time, except during solo missions and easy quests... (FYI I am level 40 now, but my Warden is on the search for RK LI's when I get to that level so I would like to know what to look for )
*edit~
I think there is a common misconception that RKs are "healers in a pinch". We aren't. We are a bonafide main healing class, just like Minis. We CAN be healers in a pinch, and often when a groups "healer" dies, a dpsing RK can quickly fill that role and attempt to salvage the pull. But an RK who is traited to heal, geared to heal, and has legacies supporting healing is every bit as capable as a Mini. Sonsy posts that "RKs also have the nasty habit of nuking at the start of the fight. They either pull all sorts of aggro and die or waste all their power on dps and have nothing left to heal with." Clearly, the RK cited was not a healing RK, but rather a back-up healer. Conversely, a Mini would not heal a fellowship in an instance in Warspeech. Sonsy also posts "I can also rez people who actually need a rez...and not send them to purgatory and/or reset the instance." Not sure which rez you have had experience with, but Nothing Truly Ends is a genuine rez, albeit not an in-combat rez (which, I was not aware Minis had either...I thought Cappys were the only class with a true in-combat rez). We do have a "sort-of" in-combat rez in Do Not Fall This Day, but there are other threads discussing the usefulness of it.
/endrant
Bottom line....which healer is better is less dependant on the class, but the player playing it.
Last edited by Veri; Mar 10 2010 at 11:44 AM.
"I will not hesistate...to kick yer a**...from this raid..." ~Kel
Sonsy also posts "I can also rez people who actually need a rez...and not send them to purgatory and/or reset the instance." Not sure which rez you have had experience with, but Nothing Truly Ends is a genuine rez, albeit not an in-combat rez (which, I was not aware Minis had either...I thought Cappys were the only class with a true in-combat rez). We do have a "sort-of" in-combat rez in Do Not Fall This Day, but there are other threads discussing the usefulness of it.
Minstrels have Rally, a true in-combat rez which requires a legendary trait equipped. I would imagine the rez he was complaining about was DNFTD, which on extremely rare (and preventable) occasions will bug out and send someone to the start of the instance.
No Word of Exaltation cooldown? Seems like that would be at least #3 after Mending and Writ; being able to bubble the tank nearly 25% of the time is pretty sexy.
Its funny you should say that, because I just made a 2nd age bag last night that has Writ, Mending and Exaltation (but no pulses to prelude). TBH I've really gotten to like the 1:20 Prelude to hope for raiding, much easier to keep a few people regenning while main healing the tank. Still, I suppose I should probably make the switch.
Going on Hiatus until this statement becomes true: "The LOTRO Store will offer convenience, not advantage." -Patience
As a tank and assuming both of them know what they're doing, I'll take the RK for any instance, any day of the week.
I'm so tired of people saying that Minstrels are better at healing groups.
Newsflash, HoTs on everybody + the tanks morale never dipping below 80% > Bolster on tank + Inspire Fellows.
I can't tell you how many times I've grouped with minstrels that had to pause and heal someone else with one bolster and that's when I take the big hit that almost takes me out.
With a RK, not only will HoTs be ticking on the other person, but if the RK must turn their attention away from me, the HoT's will keep ticking on me until the RK can turn their attention back to me.
Also, Mitigating 1.5-3k damage on every group member > +50 Vitality that gives us me 250 morale and everyone else 150 morale.
Also, group heal generating no threat > group heal that generates a ton of threat but also gives -1% incoming damage.
Big emergency heal-over-time and -50% incoming damage for several seconds > Big emergency heal-over time
I've had much better experiences with good RKs than good minstrels.
Last edited by ChampionSword; Mar 11 2010 at 01:40 PM.
Also, Mitigating 1.5-3k damage on every group member > +50 Vitality that gives us me 250 morale and everyone else 150 morale.
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IMHO none of the min buffs really do much excep Ballad of War. If you are stacked with mele, that buff blows whatever an RK brings to the table out of the water (assuming its legacied to 20%). As long as there isn't a wipe, increasing the group's damage by 20%>everything else.
That said, I imagine Waden playstyle would favor RKs more in general because they can't afford to dip low since spike damage has such a strong impact on them.
Going on Hiatus until this statement becomes true: "The LOTRO Store will offer convenience, not advantage." -Patience
RKs and Minis have both main healed everything. Watcher, DN, BG, SG 4-mans, and so forth. Both have the advantage in certain situations, any overall comparison is pointless (a balance for which Turbine is probably not given enough credit).
RKs and Minis have both main healed everything. Watcher, DN, BG, SG 4-mans, and so forth. Both have the advantage in certain situations, any overall comparison is pointless (a balance for which Turbine is probably not given enough credit).
Since they are both fine healers, your choice should be based on something besides healing to pick your favorite. Which is why it falls to what else a healer can do while healing. Stuff like who has the better buffs, who can survive more damage, who can keep their group up for longer when pulls go bad, who can do more damage while healing etc.
Basically minstrels have a lot more useful stuff they can do beside healing. Some new ones I haven't mentioned are fding to rez the group right away instead of running back for 5 mins and dread removal. Mins have a lot more. Mins have a lot more little things that make them my favorite.
I disagree that minstrels obviously have more useful group abilities not directly related to healing. I think that the various Do not Fall to X skills, CC with shocking touch, ranged interrupt and corruption removal, and such certainly make the RK equal. Also, I haven't seen All Fates Entwined listed yet, which is an amazing skill.
Go review some of the minstrels non healing skills. They definitely have a lot more skills and overall utility then what you listed. Sure both sides have some standouts like dnftx, all fates entwine, call to greatness, ballad of war, anthem of the valar or song of the hopeful heart. Overall though mins is more survivable then rk by a lot, has more utility skills and better cc. Corruption removal is about the same over the same interval.
The real difference is rk is designed to be a healer or dps depending on traits with some secondary utility. Mins is designed to be a healer with utility and a secondary dps if traited. You'll see that if you play them both.
Agreed. That's OK though, the real utility of a RK is the ability to be either a top tier DPS or a top tier Healer. If they are a little less wonderful on the side when healing than a Minstrel it's just fine.
7 Level 65s: Champ, Hunter, Guardian, Captain, RK, LM, Burglar All of them are sick of grinding Scrolls of Empowerment Awaiting change...
For what it's worth, I play a minstrel and lately our kin has been running BG with me and an RK healing, so I can give some perspective on the differences.
We're talking about a good healing minstrel vs. a good healing RK who both know their class. Both me and this RK are completely specced out for healing, and he CONSISTENTLY outputs more healing than I can.
We take combat logs so we know. If it's a fight where I have to spam lots of single-target heals, like on Durchest healing the tanks, the RK will typically heal at least 50% more than me, even when I'm spamming heals back to back and using my cooldowns.
On less intense fights, we'll see as much as 2 to 3 times more healing output from the RK!
The only time I ever come close to having as much healing output as him is if we do something that requires a lot of group heals, like if we have a hard time on the gauntlet or something.
And I have the best healing gear and traits I can get in terms of increasing my raw healing output...
So take that for what it's worth. I HAVE heard it said that some of this healing is over-healing and gets wasted, but still, RK can pump out really high amounts of healing! Definitely more than a minstrel when you are talking about single-target heals, even if I spam my biggest single-target heals non-stop I can not produce as high numbers as the RK.
One thing I notice though is that the RK needs some time to get the ball rolling on healing someone. For example when Durchest switches aggro to someone else, it takes a few seconds before the RK can start really pumping heals into the new tank. I on the other hand can immediately heal the same amount regardless of who I'm healing, my healing output doesn't change with the flow of the fight. The RK's seems to start as a trickle, then given time, ends up being a river. If you can keep the aggro on 1 person so the RK does not have to switch targets, there's almost nothing he can't heal through.
I think RK + minstrel works really well for BG because the minstrel can do more "oh no!" heals and react faster to unexpected changes in the fight, as well as provide nice buffs and utility, but the RK is king of the overall output.
Now remember though, this comparison is based on both the minstrel and RK having essentially "perfect" healing legendary items, which is the case for us. It also assumes the RK is good at healing. I have healed BG with a different RK who did not have as much experience at healing or as good of gear, and it was a different story, I actually beat the **** out of him in healing output. I think for an RK, the individual's skill makes MUCH more difference to their healing output than for a minstrel. Based on our logs, an RK who really knows what he's doing will output 2 to 3 times as much as an RK who is shaky on how to heal.
I think the "moral of the story" is that the RK must know what he's doing, and then if you need mostly single-target heals, the RK wins hands down, whereas if you need lots of group heals and aggro is all over the place, the minstrel can do a better job of healing a group and dealing with aggro (maybe with the exception of SG) and even tanking and DPS-ing a little. Minstrels have very good multi-target healing which RK's don't have any of. Shoot not only do we have our cooldown group heals, but an RK has nothing even close to Inspire Fellows. If your whole group needs heals, Inspire Fellows kicks the butt of an RK trying to heal the whole group all at once. If I wanted to try and beat an RK in healing output for a combat log, my best hope would probably be to spam Inspire Fellows LOL... If there was a popular instance like The Watcher that people were running where the whole group was taking AoE damage, I think you would definitely see minstrels doing better than RK's in output, but right now BG is mostly single-target healing on the bosses. For healing one person at a time, forget about it, RK's win by a wide margin, it's not even close.
Very nice post Zychus, you summed up many things quite well in it. Ultimately, they are both excellent healers, doin different things in different ways and both being able to heal anything set against them. Everyone will have their preferences, of course
Coming from the perspective of a healer and tank, I tend to choose....whoever will keep me alive . Both of them heal just fine, and their specialties bring enough to the table that neither I think is a bad choice.
I will make one amendment to your post if I may Zychus. You mention that Rk's don't have any group healing abilities. We do, actually, 2 of them (3 if traited). One is our rock. easily forgotten, and probably doesn't show up on the players combat log (since its considered a pet), but it is a group wide heal, a pretty decent HoT at that, and lasts a VERY long time. Not to mention being a pretty decent 5 second meat sheild
The other normal one is Rousing Words. With a minor CD (10s or so I believe), it is useable quite often. I use it as part of my standard rotation, firstly because it hits the whole group, and it's a per seecond tick (which is a crazy fast HoT), and the best part is that its no threat whatsoever. Plus it gives an RK 2 attunement points (instead of the usual 1 you get for casting a heal spell), so its a great attunement builder early on in the fight. hard to argue with threat-less group wide healing.
the last one is a legendary trait, on a 10m CD. Group gets a tremendous HoT group wide, plus the next time each fellow member gets hit this will trigger an additional HoT on the party member. Yes, its only once every 10m, but it heals enough to almost bring an entire party back from the brink. It's one of the best OhSh-- buttons out there (10m CD sucks, but it'd be OP otherwise).
While these may not necessarily have the same capability of the mini's inspire fellows (is it spammable? can't remember), they're combo Group heals do quite well, and one of the best of them has no threat attached to it. and the rock generates its own threat (not attached to the RK), so thats basically more threat free heals for the group.
OH ya, forgot to mention our group wide Damage reduction spell, works like the single target bubble, but hits the whole party. Again, long CD, but still another excellent OS button. Most of the RK's OS buttons are based on leveragin the RK a littel extra time to get the heals under control. I dont think this is much different then a mini's OS buttons...they're both about buying time. some of that time may be in the nature of heals (more heals = more time to get out more heals), and some of its in the nature of damage reduction or prevention (DR = less heals needed = more time for heals). either way, it all works out in the end.
btw, none of this is to slight your post, excellent post. just figured id slide in the details of the RK's HoT's. I still think Mini's have an easier time in that regards. But RK's sure aren't out to dry when it comes to that either. But, like everything else an RK does, it takes forethought to execute.
My alternate Personality is Elyxthaxzus. Plz dont confuse us, were actually quite different.
Well, just remember, RKs have 2 emergency heals on ten minute cooldowns if traited for it, which unless they're dps that switched to healing in an emergency they should be traited for it.
Minstrels have their big heal and massive aggro skill on a 15 minute cooldown. And Fellowship's Heart is on a base 30 minute cooldown. Reducible, but not by more than a few minutes.
If I'm getting someone off glff that I don't know/trust, I want me a minstrel. No two ways about it. If I know it's an experienced player who really knows what they're doing, I want a RK no two ways about it. Reason? In a turtle run, with me being the only tank, an RK kept me alive with an 8k DoT on me. He didn't let me die until the DoT ticks were bigger than my morale bar, and I think even then that RK could have kept me up if he pushed himself.
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production. Too wierd to live, but too rare to die. ~Hunter S. Thompson
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