Thread: PUG o' Noobs vs Carn Dum... =)

First off - I make no claims to have a clue about this game at all. The fact that I've reached the level that I have means simply that I have had enough time to grind it out. I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know where I'm going and I certainly have no idea what to do when I get there.

I'm a Dwarf. I'm a Guardian. I've taken too many hits to the head.

I had been killing far too many worms because someone said it was Virtuous. I think I slaughted around 200 of them when I saw people were looking to go into the dungeon of Carn Dum. I figured, "sure, that sounds fun - I'll go".

I got into a group - it was a nice group. I'm not good with names. There was another Guardian named Pontiy, a Hunter named Lareylynn, a Minstrel named Jyorgi, a Champ named something like Zenneth and some kinda magical type named something like Celebrador. Along the way, Zenneth said his wife had fallen ill and he had to leave - we found another magical fella by the name of Mezzion or something. Fancy long names... feh.

So.. we all get together at some ranger camp with a fancy name. Some lady named "El" (see, short - I can remember that) gives me a quest... as did a few others. I repaired and emptied my bags... and slowly but surely the group starts asking..

"Hey, does anyone know how to get to Carn Dum?"

Pfft. I have a map. It shows lines. I figure we just go there. The place is swamped with Monsters - most of which won't mess with me.. but a lot of the younger kids - they're gonna get hurt. Clearly, hunters aren't too informed of this reality as Lareylynn decides to start running for it.

I've heard of trains before.. and Larey did a good job of stacking them up.. but by the time we hit the bend in the road, Larey's horse gave up.. and most of the group was surrounded by a bunch of angry Orcs, Goblins and Wargs. 4 of the fellowship fell to them while Pontiy and I continued to just run through the mobs to the gates of Carn Dum.

Needless to say, we got the idea to try it again - this time fighting our way there. This went pretty smooth and we found ourselves at the entrance to the dungeon. In We Go!

So... yeah, we're inside. Great... which way to go? "FORWARD!!!"

We fight straight through to the end of this entranceway - and find a gate that requires a key we don't have. Eventually we realize that for noobs like us, there's a side path with a sign that says "LONG WAY FOR NOOBS" and we go down it.

We fight through some trash.. and release a few slaves from water towers.. eventually we battle through some kinda tough guy - Urro. Needless to say he was big, but not tough - he died quick enough.

Passing through Urro - we saw a trail of angry Orcs bashing the ground really rough. We figured they must be breadcrumbs... so we killed them up the path.. and eventually found Barashel. This guy looked more challenging... I realize this because the dread overcame me right away. I charged him and started beating on him when he slammed the ground and I went flying...

...far

...towards the edge.

Thank god I have big feet. I held on to the end of the ledge and charged back at Barashel. I learned my lesson and turned to position myself so the next time he hit me - I wouldn't risk the edge.

Sadly, his next charge wasn't towards me. Pontiy hadn't learned my lesson, either. Pontiy (now called Puntee) got knocked up and over the edge.. to his doom.

Everyone was now aware of Barashel's habit.. moved to the safety of the platform as we killed him and got his key.. then we cleared to Puntee and revived him.

Behind Barashel was the door that matched the key... so without hesitation we went through (by without hesitation, we actually roamed around all over the place looking for an alternative to going through the door, found none and then went through it).

The following two paths this led to were stone-covered pathways along some greenish water. A bunch of slugs would fight against us.. as would a platform filled with Hornblowers and Soldiers out of nowhere... but NOTHING would prove as dangerous and deadly to us as that unholy water. Puntee fell to the water and died. In fact, over the course of the evening the water would be the cause of many untimely (and entirely hilarious) deaths - Larerylynn having the best one of them all.

Then we find this biiiig chamber - big pond in the middle with little tentacles on the edge. Of course.. it's just a tease. As soon as we killed those tentacles - Helchgam had decided he'd had enough of our foreplay and came at us - 4 tentacles on either side of us.. and he's throwing some kind of muck or slime at people. GOOD TIMES!

So.. we battle the tentacles in pairs.. killing a few here, a few there.. and then after we killed the 2nd pair on one side.. that big squid goes and rips down one of the pillars - must be ... oh wait, it's a path so I can kick him in the eye! Great!!!

Puntee figured this out first and was racing down the new path to hit the thing... I called out to the others to follow - only then did I notice three were already dead... sheesh. Well.. we bravely charged down to our death.. determined to do what we could to him - which wasn't much.

The good news is... Helchgam did us a favor and put us out of our misery by yanking the pillar into the water... and bringing us right behind it. Argh!

So.. we form up, get ready.. and charge back to the Squid - this time with a better feeling of what we have to do. We get the first pillar - charge in and mash his face up. Get the second pillar.. then we realize "erm.. where's a third Pillar?!"

So we're running around like chickens with our heads cut-off.. then we figure it out. We get over to where the third pillar is.. and as we pull it down, one of those Squid Fingers knocks the hunter and she falls into the drink. With just the five of us left... we fight with all we've got.. finding ways to keep ourselves strong.. and it really felt that when we were on that fourth and final pillar that it might be pulled out from underneath us at any time.. but we managed to squish that fish and spare ourselves the shame of another failure.

So despite our absolute lack of what we're doing, where we're going or anything - we've managed to kill three of the baddies of the place... just when we all decided to take a swim to go back to the beginning quicker - Jyorgi goes "hey guys, there's a door here!"

Ugh! So.. we dry off and run back to Jyorgi.. and continue through the door - once again, clueless as to where we're supposed to go... but boldly going there!

Before long, we encounter some silly fool going "oh I'm so proud to be among the Amgmarim"... which is good, because shortly after we heard that he was proud to be dead. Then we moved on to find some spooky Cargul surrounded by Priestesses.

We were being clever, taking the priestesses one by one.. when the Hunter (why is it always the hunters?!?) decides to hit one of the priestesses early with a whole bunch of arrows... great. So now we have 4 priestesses coming in with a dozen of their little lackeys.. and for good measure they summon up some ghosty-type friends. 20 versus 6. My kind of numbers! I'm yelling and screaming and trying to keep things hitting me - the hunter's going "oh god on god sorry sorry"... and somehow we survived without anyone dying.

...don't tell the hunter, but that was fun! =)

We finish up the priestesses then kill Casper. (Avalgaith).. and then find a hidden trail up into some cliffs and kill a whole bunch of those Winged Women thingies until we find their leader.

Their leader had about oh.. I guess a dozen or so other Winged thingies around her.. but I'm guessing they didn't like her as a leader - they didn't come to help and she died quickly.

With Azgoth down - we moved back into the city and up to the gates to find the last Gatekeeper there - Tarlakh. Great - now we can kill him and go inside... but of course, it's a trap. Behind us a bunch of waves of foolish Amargrim come at us... and despite the surprise... we squish them all - knowing that I'm sure eventually when he realizes this silly trap flopped - Tarlakh is gonna come at us. And he does. And he dies.

So here we have the latest and greatest key - the gates of Carn Dum are now opened and waiting... but we opted to take some time and lick our wounds.. fix our armor and empty our bags... saving it for tonight.

If this Pug O'Noobs has the energy to go back in there and finish what we've started. I have to admit, for not knowing what we're doing, where we're going or anything of that sort... it's sure been a lot more fun than mashing up random worms because someone said I should!

--Akkim
(I hope this horribly written recap allows some of the LOTRO Vets to remember / relive the feelings they had of going into some instance/dungeon and having absolutely no idea of what to do... and the fun that came along with it!) =)

It won't let me rep you again.

+1 rep great story i know those feelings perfectly

good story!
it reminds me of my first few times into CD. It's a really cool instance imo, and it's a shame that they don't make 'em like they used to.

Originally Posted by dee_fruz

good story!
it reminds me of my first few times into CD. It's a really cool instance imo, and it's a shame that they don't make 'em like they used to.

Yeah... but to be honest, I'm kinda torn on things like this. It is done really well - and I hope the group I'm with can finish this up tonight.

CD is great.. but I would hardly consider it a "training dungeon". I'd imagine the first many dungeons you experience (especially those tied to the Epic Storyline) to be far more "linear" in nature.

Finding too many options of where to move/wander.. in fact, the sheer size (12+ Bosses I assume?) is rather daunting - and in fact a real roadblock for someone to get along in the storyline.

That being said.. I really find CD to be absolutely impressive. It's monstrous, forebodding, everything you would want - it ropes you in - and seems like it would be ideal ...for a raid.

If this is how future dungeons are - I have a few concerns ::

1) In my opinion - Dungeons work best when they can be scaled to the current level of difficulty. Unfortunately this means two things would have to happen - either a loot table revamp, or conversion of the loots to tokens (similar to Skirmishes). This would allow the impressive instances like CD to be experienced as a challenge for all players.

2) The radar needs help - or perhaps a dungeon mini-map that aids you. I understand it's a requirement to pay attention to know where you have to go and all.. but often times the radar is rendered absolutely pointless for helping groups find where they are, where they are going, where other members of the group are, etc..

3) The amount of sheer garbage you loot NEEDS to be minimized. You can start on an instance like that.. and by the time you've dropped 2-3 bosses, your bags are littered with **** you've rolled on, looted, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love treasure, looting and winning rolls... but if I have to stop the flow of the dungeon to make room for stuff all the time.. there's some of the "atmosphere" that's lost.

I would like to see more dungeons of this size/scale - but I don't think they should be "road-bumps" or connected to the Epic Storyline... but what do I know.. I'm just a dorf =)

--Akkim

Originally Posted by IamAkkim

I would like to see more dungeons of this size/scale

You're preaching to the choir, bud. We haven't really had another instance like CD implemented in the three years since its inception at launch. If you get the chance, Helegrod (24-man) and the Rift (12-man) are two other instances where you get to witness this game in all its glory... it's a shame that Turbine has gotten away from their inital vision for instances in this game.

Originally Posted by Nasty8

You're preaching to the choir, bud. We haven't really had another instance like CD implemented in the three years since its inception at launch. If you get the chance, Helegrod (24-man) and the Rift (12-man) are two other instances where you get to witness this game in all its glory... it's a shame that Turbine has gotten away from their inital vision for instances in this game.

your forgetting annuminas

Originally Posted by memphis-8899

your forgetting annuminas

Eh, not really. Annuminas as a zone was awesome... the instances, not so much. Gardens/Tombs were awful, and Palace got old after a while.

Now... if they combined the concept behind Annuminas with the current build of DG... then we'd have something.

Nasty - to remain consistent with my other posts.. I feel part of the problem we see in Dungeon Development is the Time Investment. It seems the trend in MMOs to release an "Expansion" every two years.

LOTRO seems driven by some timeline to push new content every three months (new books, etc) - from what I have gathered.

There seems to be a large rumbling in the user community that Turbine hasn't been reliable on releasing those quarterly updates... which could be for any number of reasons - but I'm not concerned with that.

Let's go with the expectation that they resume a "schedule" of quarterly content updates and bi-annual expansions...

Year 1, Month 1 - Expansion
Year 1, Months 4, 7, 10 - Content Release
Year 2, Months 1, 4, 7, 10 - Content Release
Year 3, Month 1 - Expansion

So there are 7 updates, and the impending doom of a new expansion (when you figure the massive changes are coming, etc).

Looking at the size/scope of Carn Dum - I imagine it would be near impossible to get that built in time for a 3 month release (allowing time for bug-fixing and beta-testing). So your most logical release time for such a project would be "Year 2, Month 1".

In doing so, you would (most likely) have to drain resources from the content pushes in Year 1 in order to properly flesh out the massive dungeon... knowing that in only one year, the dungeon itself would become "outdated" as the level cap increases, etc.

So the problem - as I understand it - is simply a lack of time/resources and honest justification of such a project. Perhaps they approach it as something to do with for an expansion.. and this expansion got consumed with the Skirmish efforts?

...the REAL joy would be if these massive dungeons were created OUTSIDE of the story arc, so they could be scaled up in difficulty as the level cap increases - keeping them relevant and entertaining long beyond the "mudstomp" status that many of them will normally enter resultingly.

Thoughts?

--Akkim

Originally Posted by memphis-8899

your forgetting annuminas

I love Annuminas! I thought the instances were really fun and creative. And you get some awesome titles out of there.

Annu is the sex

Originally Posted by AbSoLuTeMiKe

Annu is the sex

^^ This coming from the guy who thinks certain video games and sandwiches are the sex too

Originally Posted by soora

^^ This coming from the guy who thinks certain video games and sandwiches are the sex too

You know's I's can't describe Mass Effect 2 + Bacon Eggs and Cheese any better. Meany

Originally Posted by AbSoLuTeMiKe

Mass Effect 2

^^^^^^ maybe the best RPG of all-time.

<3

Back to my original story - I apparently was too late for these guys and they finished the place up without me. So on the downside I haven't seen the end of it.. on the upside - I found some great people to play with last night and finished up 'The Gates of Carn Dum'.... a funny thing about that.

I had camped up in that ranger area inside of Carn Dum's suburbs.. thinking I could just finish up and all... who knew I'd need to have a key to get OUT of there lol. So I ran around like some stupid Elf trying to find a way out while a whole host of baddies chased me around.. eventually I had to give up and bounce out to Thorin's Hall

So.. perhaps sometime soon I'll make a re-entry into Carn Dum and finish it up right! =)

--Akkim

great post! love the guardian's perspective!!!

this had me laughing the whole time +rep

Originally Posted by IamAkkim

(I hope this horribly written recap allows some of the LOTRO Vets to remember / relive the feelings they had of going into some instance/dungeon and having absolutely no idea of what to do... and the fun that came along with it!) =)

Honestly, it really did. Cool story.

CD was great when we were all noobs and had no clue at all. And to agree with Pessot, they really don't make em like they used to

Originally Posted by IamAkkim

(I hope this horribly written recap allows some of the LOTRO Vets to remember / relive the feelings they had of going into some instance/dungeon and having absolutely no idea of what to do... and the fun that came along with it!) =)

This post brings back thoughts of my first LOTRO days, when I kept wondering where this massive city named "Bree" was people were discussing.

Great job on the reminiscence!

oh carn dum, miss that smelly place

first of all, great story
carn dum, with annuminas and urugarth, imo, r the best instances in Lotro.
i like pugs, its a great to way to have fun with lot of disasters and funny situations - like see a horde of elites coming and none knows what to do, jumping into the green water or trying to discover a new deed by attempting to fly

Great story. I'd give rep but I've given out to much in the last 24 hours.

I've only managed to get up to Helcham in CD, with a group pretty much the same way, and had a blast, thought that squid put an effective stop to our group. I'd love to get a chance to see some of the other areas that I haven't been to yet- the rest of CD and Urugarth, the rift, Helegrod, etc. It's to bad that people aren't more willing to run those again, even if they're higher level. There's a lot of us that would like to do it for a first time still.

Thanks for sharing, and for the smiles.

I agree that pugging into those things with the whole sense of the 'unknown' is quite enjoyable.. but there seems to be a high percentage of players in this game that're very high strung.

I believe a huge chunk of the blame for that lies with the cost of repairs - for toons who don't have a higher level toon with a bankroll, a half-dozen wipes can be really expensive and works as a deterrant for newbies from going into these places.

I try to do my part.. if a group asks me for help and I honestly have no real-life plans for the next few hours I generally join up with them (unless it's someone I've had a bad experience with previously) =)

--Akkim

I wish that turbine would come up w/ a feature that would let you scale up the level on instances, with morale, power and dmg increases on enemies that can be activated upon entering instances like CD. I don't even care if they update the loot, I just want to be able to experience that on-lvl. That would make my day personally.

Awsome post =) +rep

Originally Posted by Joshua93

I wish that turbine would come up w/ a feature that would let you scale up the level on instances, with morale, power and dmg increases on enemies that can be activated upon entering instances like CD. I don't even care if they update the loot, I just want to be able to experience that on-lvl. That would make my day personally.

Yeah, I'm kind of a big fan of that idea as well. I mean what they have done with the Epic Vol 1 storyline (Inspired Greatness) allows people to skirt the instance .. but being able to scale the difficulty of the instance (the same way you can do it with Skirmishes) would be great.

I found CD to be a real overwhelming experience and the only thing(s) I would have changed about it were being aware of the size/scope of the place in advance (so we could have warned everybody accordingly) and being there in a group completely made up of people with no previous CD experience and having to learn it all on the fly =)

--Akkim