I dont get why elves get -20 morale from the start and still let them be both tank classes??? -10 would be no big deal but -20 is like 3 hits at the start of the game if it is anything like WoW.
I dont get why elves get -20 morale from the start and still let them be both tank classes??? -10 would be no big deal but -20 is like 3 hits at the start of the game if it is anything like WoW. I guess at whatever the max level is it wont be a big deal but at the start it might.
At first, seeing that the only bonus the elves had was their agility bonus, it made me wonder why you would bother making a champion at all, since with Fervour on all your evading abilities fly out the window.
The one redeeming factor for me that I realized (as a champion, that is) is that agility determines critical % modifiers. Once I understood that, I was perfectly fine with re-creating my elf champion from the closed beta.
I'm not sure how well this affects the guardian, on the other hand.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good Loremaster at your side, kid." The Team, Elendilmir: the [Jeweled Bell] goes *Jingle, Jangle*
As an Elf guardian, and having played on in clased beta, its that agility bonus I like! my block and parry are pretty high. I think minus the lower physical traits (starting out, we make up for htem later in racial traits and such). The Elf Guardian is a great "reactive tank"
but it might just be my taste
"Let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall." - Elrond
Is there any chance what so ever that the run/walk animation for Elves can be improved and made much more graceful than humans? We had this is very early Beta 2 but it was soon discovered that some bug with it was actually causing server lag. Now that we have worked out most of our infrastructure issues, what are the chances of bringing back some of that gracefulness in animations with Elves specific to their movement?
As an Elf guardian, and having played on in clased beta, its that agility bonus I like! my block and parry are pretty high. I think minus the lower physical traits (starting out, we make up for htem later in racial traits and such). The Elf Guardian is a great "reactive tank"
but it might just be my taste
Just wanted to point out that your agility bonus only effects your parry and your dodge from a mitigation stand point. Might is the modifier for block %. That being said the higher parry and dodge rates help balance out the lower morale you will have as an Elf Guardian.
From a champion standpoint the higher crit rate should help on the DPS side and while with fervour up you will not parry or dodge, lets just say you really don't want to be off-tanking elites for any extended period of time with it toggled anyway (unless you like to be a mana-sponge or like dying). So with it toggled off your hit avoidance (parry and dodge) as an off-tank will be higher while your natural damage (common damage reduction) mitigation will most likely be lower.
What it really boils down to is your play style and probably more so your personality, I could never play an Elf as I am a Dwarf at heart.
Give the elves a 5% or 10% ( I'd so go for the 10%) Sword damage racial trait instead of that 2% one. Having more than a hundred years experience (or a couple thousand) should not just give them 2% Sword Damage.
I'm with Sev. I think all the weapon-specific damage buffs should sit at 5% or 10% bonuses instead of 2%. They're not even worth the slot at the level they are now. Upping them to 5 or 10 would make racial/class considerations more important.
how about changing the bow damage trait to a strate foward range damage trait that way my loremaster could use it.
and it would effect all classes, even minstrel how can't use bows just like loremasters they are a ranged offence heavy class.
and ya a 5% or 10% damage bonus would be more noticable.
ok seriously why is eldars grace not ranged and melee instead of just melee i can see it being fine for grds but champs cant evade in fervour and hunters hardly ever get hit melee vs being hit ranged it just makes more sense when 70% of elves are hunters...
I still do not understand why there are no Elven Captains in LOTRO. I definently think that Elves should be able to be Captains. It seems that Turbine's reason that they are not is that in the 3rd and 4th ages Man started to rise again and so it seems to go into their idea of the lore. IMO this is a sad exscuse of a reason especially in regards to the elves. Turbine keeps saying that it is trying to stay with the lore, but I don't think this is true. I mean come on, if you were to assign a class to all of the elves written about by Tolkien, practically NONE of them are champions or guardians. They all pretty much fall into either hunter or captain. Another arguement is that Elves can't lead very well and therefore would be bad at things such as restoring other's morale. Well, IMO elves are much greater leaders than Men. It takes a good deal of leadership to be able to stay and fight for what you love when there are few of you. Also, who would seem the better Captain to follow; a strong, elf who is fighting for all that he loves, or a man who's the reason thousands of your countymen are being killed because he's to weak to make a good descision (Isilidur keeping the ring instead of destroying it...The Neumenorens being too cocky to not kill Sauron)? I do not think that the Race of Man should be the only class to have a captain, and It'd be very nice if Turbine would follow this HUGE prt of the lore. Turbine please create elven captains!!!!!
Notable Elven Captains:
1.Gil-Galad (He had a herald, Elrond, and he stood up to help the race of man, last great Captain of the elves)
2. Glorfindel (Tried to hold back the enemy from his army's backside, giving up his own life to save others)
3. Fingolfin (Killed while trying to destroy the enemy who had killed so many of his people)
Ugdush, Black Orc of Mordor~~~Rank 7 Reaver
Ungweliant of Nan Dungortheb~~~~~Rank 6 Weaver Utúlien Aurë! Utúlien Aurë!
I think there is definitely some people at Turbine that do not like Elves for whatever reason. They have hamstrung the race and clearly lean towards Man as the proffered race.
Oh well people in middle earth feared Elves also..
Notable Elven Captains:
1.Gil-Galad (He had a herald, Elrond, and he stood up to help the race of man, last great Captain of the elves)
2. Glorfindel (Tried to hold back the enemy from his army's backside, giving up his own life to save others)
3. Fingolfin (Killed while trying to destroy the enemy who had killed so many of his people.
Yes. These elves, in my opinion, would be captains. Elven captains should really be introduced.
Vilya: Ruanthir-Elf-Champion-Level 9-Founder of Free Alliance of Middle Earth
Irathorn-Race of Man-Captain-Level 5
"If you're in a forest and a tree twice your level starts chasing you, you're in trouble."--Ruanthir, after a similar incident near Bree
Notable Elven Captains:
1.Gil-Galad (He had a herald, Elrond, and he stood up to help the race of man, last great Captain of the elves)-what?
(Elrond was a Loremaster.)
2. Glorfindel (Tried to hold back the enemy from his army's backside, giving up his own life to save others)
3. Ecthelion Lord of the Fountains (Killed while destroying Gothmog captain of the Balrogs the enemy who had killed so many of his people)(captain of Gondolin)[/QUOTE]
4. Beleg Cuthalion, (even though he was renowned with a bow, he was the captain over all the forces of Doriath).
5. Haldir (The guy Aragorn talks with to get permission to bring the fellowship into Lorien)
*fixed #1, #3*
Imho, Fingolfin was a guardian, he evaded and there were holes rent in the ground from Morgoth's hammer. See thing is he used up his parry skill cause its only 10 seconds, and then his guardian's pledge ran out, and he had to catch a breath and it was still on cooldown. He even 'challenged' Morgoth, (he smote the gates of Angband and challenged him to personal combat). (challenge the darkness). He's totally guard. :P
I feel elves need a little love right now. They are weaker than humans, and id like a little more parity.
Id suggest...
- Rolling +2% damage to 1-handed sword and the 2% to bow into a single trait, considering other races have single traits adding +2% to both 1 handed and 2 handed versions of their favored weapons.
- Adding the opposite of sadness of the firstborn but for power. Basically a +power, +OOC power regen trait for all elves.
- Improving the disease and poison resistance of elves substantially. 5% would be fair.
and finally...
- Changing the high end elven power, Elven Grace, which grants 10 secs of parrying, into 10 secs of evasion, so that it works from all sides and against arrows. This will make it more comparable to the human power, Strength of Morale, in terms of usefulness. And itll make more sense, lore-wise, IMO.
These four changes would make elves a balanced, fine race to play, i believe.
I would like to see a little bit more for the elves myself. That bow damage bonus is useless for my LM and minstrel. Sylvan shadows SUCKS. I mean come in in a woodland setting unless the elf wants you to see them, you wont even know their there. But by the same token if the made the races as they should be, everyone would play an elf for the most part and never play a human at all.
Elf captain YES
Elf burglar NO(tho they would be cool)
What I could see is giving elves more bonuses (the ones mentioned earlier) but offset it with a 10 or 15% exp penalty. I mean come on the elves take more time and enjoy the trip because they have lots of time. Men try to get everything done fast because they know they dont have as much time.
- Changing the high end elven power, Elven Grace, which grants 10 secs of parrying, into 10 secs of evasion, so that it works from all sides and against arrows. This will make it more comparable to the human power, Strength of Morale, in terms of usefulness. And itll make more sense, lore-wise, IMO.
Personally I still wouldn't call that balanced. I'd like to see a 1500 point heal tacked on, roughly half of Strength of Morale and with the 10 seconds of parry I think the overall effect would better stack up against SoM. By itself, 10 seconds of parry is pretty weak considering Burglars get +50% evade for 30 seconds every 15 minutes, with a class skill.
Personally I still wouldn't call that balanced. I'd like to see a 1500 point heal tacked on, roughly half of Strength of Morale and with the 10 seconds of parry I think the overall effect would better stack up against SoM. By itself, 10 seconds of parry is pretty weak considering Burglars get +50% evade for 30 seconds every 15 minutes, with a class skill.
Just my opinion of course.
Regardless, I think we can all agree that elves currently have the weakest once per hour racial ability. Humans get a big heal, hobbist get feign death, dwarves can reduce almost all incoming damage (not as good at the first two, but still better than what elves get).
The elven parry is situationally useful for champs and gaurds, and not even worth taking up a hotbar slot with on most other classes. Ten seconds of melee only damage reduction that only affects foes in melee range in your front arc simply bites for most classes.
Making it an evade is the absolute minimum that is needed to make it useful for all classes. That way it could function as an escape ability or as an in combat damage reduction.
Even then, I'd agree with you that it would still be weaker than the equivalent hobbit and man abilities. A longer duration (30 seconds?), or a morale tick on top of evade could maybe bring it up to par. A sudden morale burst would be too similar to man heal imo, reducing the flavor of the races.
OK, I'll admit that this thread is SO long that I did not read every response, and I wonder if you could read them all (and hope that you do).
I want to give my 2C because Elfs are my favorite race (and my wife's).
My minor gripes:
They still twist and contort in a strange way. (I know a previous patch said it got rid of the elfin scoliosis, but it's still there.)
The Elfs in-game could stand to be more graceful in general, and that does not mean skinnier. But that is minor, and I'm ok if my Elf has the same pace and gait as my dwarf just for ease of engine mechanics. I'd just rather that they moved differently.
Is it just me or are the ears getting bigger? Please make the ears look mostly human-ish. Where they are now is OK, but it is the limit. I liked smaller & subtler much better. Whatever you do, I BEG you: please, please, PLEASE do not ever let the ears look like those TV Antennae on the WoW elves.
I agree with others, more disease resistance makes sense, but as a minor game mechanic I'm not stuck on it. Same goes for Will or Shadow Mitigation. Really, Elfs had the strongest Will and Men the Weakest. That was what Tolkien implied, and that was why Men became Ring Wraiths while Elfs were able to pass and continued to use their rings for good (and gave one to Gandalf).
Their high level armor looks too robust. Elf armor should look frail and fancy yet mystically provide protection. The elf appearance cloths are also a bit too Human. But that is another minor thing. (and what is with that Elf Quiver?)
Last but not least:
The Elf Dance (/dance_elf) is all messed up. It was only sorta fixed. It looks like dancers are running around in a circle. It used to look great. My wife and I could face each other and /dance_elf and our characters would dance and twirl around each other. It would impress onlookers and fellows. Now it looks like we are very confused and bad at navigation.
----- Compliments ---
Overall I think Elves are great. Yes, we may mock their feminine appearance, but that suits them just fine (as well as beards suit the female Dwarfs). Honestly I think you pegged it just right on the first go.
The new modifications for Elf appearance (except for the bigger ears) are also quite nice. I like the golden leaves in their hair. Nature colors would be nice too.
I like the way that Elf NPCs drop elfin phrases regularly ("Mae Govannan" "Suilied Melon" [sp?]). More of that would be wonderful, especially if the Lorien Elfs use a different dialect from the Imladris Elfs, but I understand how annoyingly complex Tolkien's languages can be, so no worries if they all speak Quenya.
Rivendel is beautiful and I often wander around there with my graphics turned way up. BUT, I would wish for the Elf houses (this goes for player housing too) to look more ... Elf like? I guess I just mean less Human, but I don't know what I was expecting there other than being more open and "airy." I understand the difficulties with instancing buildings and not being able to look outside.
Keep up the good work. I love the game and am constantly trying to get my friends addicted to it.
The observation about the elf males being feminine only perspective, though I don't think I've ever seen a female dwarf. (wink) Can you imagine being 14,982 years old... I think cutting your hair on a regular basis would get old... say after a few hundred years.
Elves should have greater resistance to all the items mentioned earlier. (Disease, poison, fear,better parry numbers, improved numbers for crafting certain things,and stealth/stealth detection) (The sylvan shadows timer is truly a joke, it's so long that I rarely even bother) I'd think in the thousands of years that an elf lives he'd have mastered a few things just out of shear boredom. (Humans retire after 30 years, imagine doing something for 6,000 years. I'd think you'd be d@mn good at it)
I have a level 50 LM that is for the most part, rather pimped out. At just shy of 4k (3750 actual) I can take on many classes and give them a serious run for their money. I'd love a trait which would let me ditch my pets for heavier armour. (They only add to the complexity of an otherwise complex class)
For raiding, I'd like our buffs not to be improved but to last longer. I always get stuck being the solo LM and by the time we are done my keyboard is smoking and my hands are stiff.
Greater (visual) individualization within the toons would be very welcome. I would also like there to be more varied animations within the different offensive abilities. After killing say... 500 of anything... it would be nice to have a little variety in the animations. The art direction for elven armour is close to terrible. Why do men and dwarves get all the good pieces and elves look so ridiculous?
Even without all these things, I love my elf. Who else can kick @rse with such style and look as good doing it? No one.... put that in your pipe and smoke it
Just a quick thought, how about replacing 'Eldars Grace' which is really pointless with the 1 hour cool down with a 2% parry buff just like dwarves get.
Who ever said our Elven characters are thousands of years old? I prefer to think of my char's as young and just coming into adulthood, thus learning combat and a little crafting (but not a lot), and really just learning the ways of the world..
I personally think Elves have been done well - we aren't playing strong Elves from the first age, we are playing young elves born in the winter of Elvendom, and the waning of the race. No reason at all why Men shouldn't be stronger..
Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.
My elf is thousands of years old. And the lore is rather specific in just how the elves are stronger, faster, tougher, smarter and old. The last elf born in ME was Elrond's daughter. The only reason the elves are "fading" is because as a people they are leaving ME and there are so few of them left. As a nation, they are fading. But as a species they are as formidible as ever. (Even if they are not the elves from the First Age) How else could such a tiny group keep such vast numbers of foes at bay?
For the game, I don't want elves to be demi-gods. I do want them to have the advantages the lore provides. (Even if only in small amounts)
OK, my memory of LOTR lore isn't photographic and immediately encyclopedic, but I'm going to have to ask that you source this. Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen were born a long time ago by the time LOTR takes place, but I do not remember anywhere stating that Arwen is the youngest elf in the world and that all Elves, everywhere, stopped falling in love and having the rare child after she was born.
Anyway, as a relative newbie, I have to say this: I am still a little underwhelmed by the Elven racials (+1% disease resist does seem a little anemic) but comfortable with them for the most part. A good deal of the tragedy of the Elves is that, for all of their wisdom and foresight, at the end of the day an axe to the face kills them as badly as any other creature that walks Middle-Earth. The Mighty among the Eldar could challenge much, but were still not invulnerable; the 'common' Sindar of Mirkwood, the Blue Havens or even Lorien are more than capable of being bested by a skilled man or orc. That a thousand years of experience can be snuffed away in the space of one heartbeat is a large part of the feel of the race, and I approve of the fact that Elves here are not the absurd demigods some people are asking for. (The ability to go into the West... the person who suggested that understands those are one-way trips, yes?)
I do find the lack of Elvish (and Dwarvish) Captains puzzling, however. What was Gil-galad, or Elrond at the height of his prowess (before he did an olol reroll to Loremaster in the Third Age), or Thorin, or Balin, or Thranduril, or even Haldir for that matter? It's a small thing, but non-human Captains really should be allowed.
OK, my memory of LOTR lore isn't photographic and immediately encyclopedic, but I'm going to have to ask that you source this. Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen were born a long time ago by the time LOTR takes place, but I do not remember anywhere stating that Arwen is the youngest elf in the world and that all Elves, everywhere, stopped falling in love and having the rare child after she was born.
You are gonna make me find it... craaaap... finding a single piece of Lore in Middle Earth is more difficult then turning water into wine. I believe she was born in year 241 of the third age. If I get really ambitious I will try to find the reference. (But I could be wrong)
I quite like playing elves, especially considering my last game didn’t allow for anything but humans. There a great race, but feel a little wanting compared to most the other races as far as the traits. If the agility bonus were to be doubled, Grace of the Eldar changed to evade instead of parry, and the disease resist raised up to an effective level I think they would be relatively on par with the other races.
My only complaint,( and this is from the lore ) would be their fear of undead. Elves were supposed to be unfazed by the spirits of the dead. So being feared by, or cowering before the undead seems rather off to me.
Eel
ps. Would be great if the elf bow dammage were fixed and working too =)
Ready to talk about the Race of Elves? Post your thoughts and comments here!
Male elf really silly stance and they wear hauberks really silly like, with boots sticking outside the hauberk.
Also the worst race traits imo. Sylvan shadow, most useless trait, so slow and gets detected almost 100% of the times. If a hunter, you get camouflage that is even more useful.
I'd roll a man race any day over elf. Man heal over sylvan shadow anyday. I can take the loss of those 2% extra bow damage elves get to get man heal. Even hobbits fake death skill is more useful but hobbits might be the only race even more silly looking than elves in lotro. Hobbits looks like they wear dipers.
Dwarf or man as tank. Dwarf for the +2% Block and icmr + icpr or man for +evade/parry/block and again man heal.
Any other class, man if available for the class.
Structly talking looks and bonuses. For roleplay I understand if some roll elves.
All this talk about elves being so good with bows may be true but not all elves prefered the bow. It says about Maedhros that after lossing his hand "he lived to wield his sword with left hand more deadly than his right had been". Even in Valinor when Feanor raised a weapon to his brother in "warning" it wasn't a bow but a sword. Elves fought the forces of Morgoth for a long time, you can't tell me that there were not any great captains.
All this talk about elves being so good with bows may be true but not all elves prefered the bow. It says about Maedhros that after lossing his hand "he lived to wield his sword with left hand more deadly than his right had been". Even in Valinor when Feanor raised a weapon to his brother in "warning" it wasn't a bow but a sword. Elves fought the forces of Morgoth for a long time, you can't tell me that there were not any great captains.
That's a good point. In the game, too, not all elves prefer the bow. Which leads to a probably terrible idea I had that in addition to some general racial benefits like disease resist, the races in the game could get a set of class-specific racials that give a different racial ability for each class. So that Elves contribute a unique touch with one or two hunter-specific racial abilities on hunter, for example, different than what hobbits would get. So each character would have some racial abilities unique to their race but also catered to their class. Maybe then not all elves get a bow bonus, but only those elves who are a class that can use a bow. The others would get some other more class-pertinent abilities that are also reflective of the elf race.
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You are gonna make me find it... craaaap... finding a single piece of Lore in Middle Earth is more difficult then turning water into wine. I believe she was born in year 241 of the third age. If I get really ambitious I will try to find the reference. (But I could be wrong)
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