With apologies to Isilmacil, whose correct answer was never confirmed by the riddler, I am going to reset our other riddle thread. This thread is for long form lore questions. Here is the new one:
Name all those present at the event which signified the end of the Second Age.
With apologies to Isilmacil, whose correct answer was never confirmed by the riddler, I am going to reset our other riddle thread. This thread is for long form lore questions. Here is the new one:
Name all those present at the event which signified the end of the Second Age.
Okay, the event which signified the end of the Second Age would have been the defeat of Sauron in the Siege of Barad-dur. So if you're counting only those who were still alive to see the event, it would have been Isildur, Cirdan, and Elrond. If you're counting those who took part/were involved in it, then you would have to include Gil-galad, Elendil, and Sauron in that list as well. Take your pick, Vilnas.
Well, I suppose you could always say "flame resistant sunglasses" if you prefer that to "shoes"
Okay, the event which signified the end of the Second Age would have been the defeat of Sauron in the Siege of Barad-dur. So if you're counting only those who were still alive to see the event, it would have been Isildur, Cirdan, and Elrond. If you're counting those who took part/were involved in it, then you would have to include Gil-galad, Elendil, and Sauron in that list as well. Take your pick, Vilnas.
Thank you. Nice work. I was looking for the full list, including the deceased/defeated participants. The name I particularly wanted to see was Cirdan, as I find most people tend to forget he was there with Elrond.
Here are the connections from the geneology charts at the back of The Silmarillion:
Celebrian was daughter of Galadriel, daughter of Earwen, daughter of Olwe of Alqualonde.
Olwe's brother was Elwe (Thingol). Thingol's daughter was Luthien, whose son was Dior, whose daughter was Elwing, whose son was Elrond.
I don't know what the technical term is for that relationship.
Now Celebrian's father was Celeborn, who was a "kinsman of Thingol" (The Silmarillion, Index entry for Celeborn, pg. 321). However, I don't believe the precise relationship of Celeborn to Thingol was ever conclusively established, at least not in the canon works (i.e., The Silmarillion, LotR and The Hobbit). According to the LotR wiki:
"Elmo is only mentioned in the Unfinished Tales in discussions on Galadriel and Celeborn. Because Celeborn is in the Silmarillion presented as a "kinsman of Thingol", Tolkien wished to develop this family link. One of his solutions was to establish Celeborn as the grandson of Elmo, a non-important brother of Elwë who remained behind when Elwë was lost, becoming one of the Sindar of Doriath. In this conception Elmo has a son named Galadhon, who in turn sired Celeborn and another son named Galathil, who was the father of Queen Nimloth of Doriath. In writings which appear to be later than the one discussed above, Celeborn is made into a Telerin elf, and a relative of Olwë of Valinor instead, but this was not further developed or published."
If the relationship from the Unfinished Tales is accepted, then Celebrian's great-grandfather (on her father's side) was the brother of Elrond's great-great grandfather.
Furthermore, note that the LotR wiki entry summarizing the UT states that Celeborn's granddaughter is Nimloth, who we know from The Silmarillion is Elwing's mother (and thus Elrond's grandmother). Thus, in this conception, both of Elrond's maternal grandparents are related to Celeborn via Thingol's muppet brother Elmo.
The Silmarillion (pg. 234) states that Nimloth was a "kinswoman of Celeborn, prince of Doriath." That at least establishes a "kin" connection between Elrond's grandmother and Celebrian's father, but again the precise relationship is not stated. That passage does also establish Celeborn as a "prince of Doriath," which supports the Elmo hypothesis. However, to my mind the "prince" reference is imprecise and therefore inconclusive. Given the relative importance of Celeborn as the husband of Galadriel, you would expect that Tolkien would have made it explicit that Celeborn was a close blood relation of Thingol if that was a settled truth in his mind.
In any event, i you accept the UT information as given, then bloodlines of Celebrian and Elrond were very intricately intertwined indeed.
Not the answer I had in mind, and I need to check to confirm that none of the other companions were related to Thorin. In the meantime, care to try again?
Not the answer I had in mind, and I need to check to confirm that none of the other companions were related to Thorin. In the meantime, care to try again?
I think many of them are related, but much more distantly. A lot are from Durin's line.
I will keep trying.
Like I told you... What I said...Steal your face right off your head.
Almost all of the dwarves in Thorin's company have names that were derived from the ancient Norse poetic work the Völuspá which is the first poem of the Poetic Edda, a collection of Old Norse poems. A section of the Völuspá called theDvergatal (the "Catalogue of Dwarves") list all of the dwarves except Balin. Dwalin is also in doubt though there is in that work the name Dvalin which may be considered the same word.
That is correct sir, with the added detail that they were not "Moria dwarves." Presumably that means that their family (Bifur and Bofur were brothers and Bombur their cousin) was originally from the Ered Luin rather than having emigrated from Erebor with the other survivors of Smaug's attack. I believe Tolkien also indicated (I forget where exactly, probably in his Letters) that this trio were "working class" dwarves rather than quasi-nobility like the others.
Assuming you meant "borne" the answer is the One Ring:
Sauron
Isildur
Deagol
Smeagol
Bilbo
Frodo
Gandalf*
Tom Bombadil*
Sam
with the asterisks indicating touched only. Deagol's held the Ring briefly, but if forced to choose I would say he possessed the Ring rather than merely touched it.
Assuming you meant "borne" the answer is the One Ring:
Sauron
Isildur
Deagol
Smeagol
Bilbo
Frodo
Gandalf*
Tom Bombadil*
Sam
with the asterisks indicating touched only. Deagol's held the Ring briefly, but if forced to choose I would say he possessed the Ring rather than merely touched it.
You are right. "Borne" is what I meant.
(Sheesh, I am having trouble with language today).
And, I guess how that word is interpreted would determine if you are right or not.
You have the right "touchers" but wrong "wearers" which is what I probably should have typed.
I am sure you will now be able to get it correct now that I have clarified it.
Tom would count as one of the "wearers" and not Deagol.
Neither Gandalf nor Deagol ever put the ring on a finger.
Your turn again.
Like I told you... What I said...Steal your face right off your head.
You are right. "Borne" is what I meant.
(Sheesh, I am having trouble with language today).
And, I guess how that word is interpreted would determine if you are right or not.
You have the right "touchers" but wrong "wearers" which is what I probably should have typed.
I am sure you will now be able to get it correct now that I have clarified it.
Tom would count as one of the "wearers" and not Deagol.
Neither Gandalf nor Deagol ever put the ring on a finger.
Your turn again.
Using "borne" instead of "worn" was the better form of riddle, in my opinion. More ambiguity since it could refer to a form of transportation.
I was also stuck one short for a while because I had forgotten Tom.
Trivia-based riddle I made up at launch: there was a riddle contest for getting into the closed beta -- the idea was that some of the winners would get their riddle into the game. Mine got me into the beta, but so far as I've seen it didn't make it in-game.
Though I am not an evergreen
I bear my leaves the year around:
I grow new green ones in the Spring,
Then drop the golden on the ground.
I had great hopes for Lalia the Great (or, less courteously, the Fat), who died in a wheelchair accident under suspicious circumstances, with the suspicion falling on Pippin Took's sister Pearl. But alas, that was 1402, well before the War of the Ring. [Letters #214]
Still dredging for suitably subtle candidates. Although there are plenty of later deaths in the hobbit genealogies, there are no details about their circumstances.
The clue is "The last recorded violent death".
The word "recorded" simply means that the professor wrote it and it was published in one of his works.
It is not meant to indicate officially recorded in an obituary or documented in any way other than in the professors writing.
Like I told you... What I said...Steal your face right off your head.
The clue is "The last recorded violent death".
The word "recorded" simply means that the professor wrote it and it was published in one of his works.
It is not meant to indicate officially recorded in an obituary or documented in any way other than in the professors writing.
I'm baffled, but may have a clue -- I suspect it's from Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, which is clearly set in our Age, whichever that is. I don't have the book, though. I looked at some abstracts of Farmer Giles of Ham, Leaf by Niggle and Smith of Wooton Manor, and they didn't look promising for violent death.
Before I dive into the RotK appendices I think I had better get the obvious out of the way just to make sure I'm not overthinking it:
Grima Wormtongue?
*Edit. There is a strong implication that the hobbits were subsequently forced to kill some of the remnants of Sharkey's men that would neither surrender or flee, although such any killing is not stated explicitly.
I'm baffled, but may have a clue -- I suspect it's from Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, which is clearly set in our Age, whichever that is. I don't have the book, though. I looked at some abstracts of Farmer Giles of Ham, Leaf by Niggle and Smith of Wooton Manor, and they didn't look promising for violent death.
For these riddle threads we are supposed to limit ourselves to the canon texts (LotR, Hobbit and Silmarillion) to keep things accessible to a broad audience. If the riddle goes beyond those the riddle giver is supposed to give a heads up. Unless Boraxxe says otherwise, I think for now we can confine our search to the canon.
Before I dive into the RotK appendices I think I had better get the obvious out of the way just to make sure I'm not overthinking it:
Grima Wormtongue?
*Edit. There is a strong implication that the hobbits were subsequently forced to kill some of the remnants of Sharkey's men that would neither surrender or flee, although such any killing is not stated explicitly.
I did the diving for you.
The last reference to and actual death is Wormtongue.
You are right about the remnants of Sharkey. And I also could not find a solid case where a death was mentioned.
I think we must assume that more of those rats were killed, but I could not find it stated anywhere.
Grats! Your turn.
BTW Tuco, the Gawain guess was an interesting attempt. But as Vilnas says, we try to stick with the three major works. And, on another note, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight was a translation, not an original work so even if we were to include non-major works, I don't think I would have accepted that. I appreciate the devious thinking....grin.
Like I told you... What I said...Steal your face right off your head.
the Gawain guess was an interesting attempt. But as Vilnas says, we try to stick with the three major works. And, on another note, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight was a translation, not an original work so even if we were to include non-major works, I don't think I would have accepted that. I appreciate the devious thinking....grin.
Heh - I was thinking the Middle-earth ones (I only know Hobbit and LotR, myself) until you made your clarification - "The word "recorded" simply means that the professor wrote it and it was published in one of his works. It is not meant to indicate officially recorded in an obituary or documented in any way other than in the professors writing." That seemed to open Pandora's box.
In any case, having read a more thorough review of Gawain and the Green Knight, I didn't see anything that clearly indicated that someone died in it.
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