Pardon me for posting another before Reddhawk's answer is confirmed, but I can't every seem to help myself once trivia questions pop into my head:
According to the canon (LotR, The Hobbit, and The Silmarillion), how many Rings of Power were made for the purpose of being given to the dwarves?
One. According to Dwarf lore, the ring given to Durin was in fact made for him, as a mark of the friendship between the Elves of Eregion and the Dwarves of Khazadum.
The other six rings given to dwarves were originally made by the Elves for their own purposes, but given to Dwarves by Sauron once he had captured them.
One. According to Dwarf lore, the ring given to Durin was in fact made for him, as a mark of the friendship between the Elves of Eregion and the Dwarves of Khazadum.
The other six rings given to dwarves were originally made by the Elves for their own purposes, but given to Dwarves by Sauron once he had captured them.
Just so. It is a common misconception that the 7 and the 9 were made specifically for the dwarves and men. I think this is likely due to Tolkien having begun writing LotR before having any real conception of the ring lore, which was fleshed out later. According to the Silmarillion, all of the Rings of Power (except as Cutholen notes) were made by the elves for their own use. This was as Sauron intended. His purpose was to ensnare and enslave his most hated enemies, the elves. It was only after they perceived his purpose and put aside their rings that Sauron made open war on Eregion, sacked it, took the rings (16 of them that we know of, the 3 "elven rings" having been hidden away), and hung the broken body of Celebrimbor from a pike as his standard. Sauron then gave out the 16 rings he recovered to dwarves and men as a Plan B. Of course, even that didn't work quite as intended, as the dwarves proved overly resistant to the power of the rings. All in all, Sauron miscalculated quite badly on the whole ring scheme, so much so that it is something of a head scratcher for me.
What is really fascinating stuff is what happened next, which is fleshed out in the History of Galadriel and Celeborn from the Unfinished Tales. Among other things it tells of Sauron's campaign after Eregion, and how he had Elrond on the run and nearly had him (this was how Rivendell got founded) before a relief force of Numenoreans intervened in the nick of time (supported by Gil-galdad if I recall) and crushed Sauron's army. What I really find interesting is that Sauron had been in the field in person and had to flee with a small remnant of his forces. These personal appearances by Sauron are such a contrast to how he is depicted in LotR as a brooding presence hanging over everything, but who never actually enters the stage.
As I have posted elsewhere, it is my belief that Sauron intended from the beginning to distribute the 15 less rings (one having already been given to Durin) as he in fact did distribute them. I base this belief on the fact that part of the Ring Rhyme (Three rings for the elven Kings ...) was forged into the One Ring. It is more probable, IMO, that the rhyme was originally invented by Sauron as part of the spell bound into the One Ring than that the Eldar later incorporated Sauron's actual spell into a poem of their own.
As to his brooding presence, probably his little run in with Gilgalad, Elendil, and Isildur made him less happy about being in the front line.
Who where the Laegrim, and what distinguished them from other elves? And who was their leader when they reestablished contact with Elu Thingol, and what was his fate?
As a side note, my main toon in the game, an elf hunter, is one of the Laegrim.
Who where the Laegrim, and what distinguished them from other elves? And who was their leader when they reestablished contact with Elu Thingol, and what was his fate?
As a side note, my main toon in the game, an elf hunter, is one of the Laegrim.
The Green-elves of Ossiriand, or Laiquendi. They were Teleri who forsook the Great March at the river Anduin. Later on, harassed by evil creatures, some of them were led by Denethor over the Blue Mountains where they again met Thingol and the Sindar.
I admit I had to cheat a little. I was certain you were describing the Laiquendi, and everything above is from memory, but I wasn't familiar with the word laegrim and looked it up to be sure.
Last edited by BIGeyedBUG; Jan 20 2010 at 08:35 PM.
* * * "From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold."
You are entirely correct so far as you go. You missed the final part of the question: what was the fate of Denethor?
He, of course, was slain on Amon Ereb in the First Battle of Beleriand, before the kinslayers had yet set foot again on Middle Earth. The Laegrim fought valiantly in that battle, but being armed only with bows and with light armour, they took very heavy casualties.
Laegrim is just the Sindarin equivalent of Laiquendi, both meaning "Green Elf".
While I was writing that post, I suddenly realized I was late for work. I wondered all day whether I'd left it mid-sentence.
* * * "From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold."
Next:
Galadriel gave to Aragorn two gifts at the parting in Lothlorien. One had a particular shape. What was this shape?
Easy one. It was an antitetracontakaidihedron.
* * * "From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold."
Congratulations. Your post is the only place that word turns up in a google search. Now what does it mean?
Haha, I applied anti-google treatment to it to foil yall.
It's almost nonsense. A tetracontakaidihedron is a 42-faced geometrical solid. An anti-tetracontakaidihedron would, I guess, be a negative-dimensioned non-Euclidean version of it. But a mathematician would probably roll her eyes at that.
* * * "From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold."
The Ellesar was a broach with an elfstone set in an eagle with outstretched wings, which also referenced his previous incarnation in Gondor as "Thorongil" (Eagle of the star) and future name of Elessar, he was also given a sheath for anduril. Aragorn met Arwen for the second time when he returned from Umbar and stopped over at Lorien, so it is remarkable that he "predicted" that he would be given the Ellesar whos shape had been determined by Celebrimbor in the second age when its more feasible that he had no idea at that stage about who his future bride would be nor the contents of his Grandmother inlaws jewelry box.
The Ellesar was a broach with an elfstone set in an eagle with outstretched wings, which also referenced his previous incarnation in Gondor as "Thorongil" (Eagle of the star) and future name of Elessar, he was also given a sheath for anduril. Aragorn met Arwen for the second time when he returned from Umbar and stopped over at Lorien, so it is remarkable that he "predicted" that he would be given the Ellesar whos shape had been determined by Celebrimbor in the second age when its more feasible that he had no idea at that stage about who his future bride would be nor the contents of his Grandmother inlaws jewelry box.
Nicely answered!
Like I told you... What I said...Steal your face right off your head.
Who are the petty-dwarves and why were they important?
Edit:
Beren is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
The last of the petty dwarves were a small family living at Amon Rudh in western Beleriand, consisting of Mim and his sons. Mim (unwillingly) harbored Turin and his band of outlaws for a time, before (semi-unwillingly) betraying Turin to Morgoth's trackers. Turin killed Mim in revenge. I can't speak to their history before that.
The last of the petty dwarves were a small family living at Amon Rudh in western Beleriand, consisting of Mim and his sons. Mim (unwillingly) harbored Turin and his band of outlaws for a time, before (semi-unwillingly) betraying Turin to Morgoth's trackers. Turin killed Mim in revenge. I can't speak to their history before that.
Yes. The elves that kept the history seems interested in them only so far as this story as far as I know. I believe that they were driven out of their holdings by the more well known Dwarves prior to this tragic end of their race. This is an instance of extermination that does not sit well with me as they do not have an explicitly evil, unredeemable character (see thread on neutral orcs) and it appears as though the ancestors of our Dwarven friends were to blame if I recall correctly. Also, if the Dwarves were created by Aule, who repented for this act, where do these fit in, they do not seem to be one of the 7 Dwarf fathers. Thoughts?
Last edited by bonas1999; Jan 21 2010 at 02:19 PM.
It isn't fair, my precious, is it, to ask us what it's got in its nassty little mind?
* * * "From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold."
Hah! As it happens, that's the answer I almost invariably want to give in these trivia threads.
* * * "From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold."
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Originally Posted by seltin97
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Re: Tolkien Trivia, Revived
Beren, Sador, Sauron, Frodo...
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