While I am disappointed at not getting a slew of new skills, I'm also kinda glad. As a champion, my bars are near full as it is.
I think many people are missing the fact that while this is an expansion, it's not as complete as Moria was at release. The raid rewards are purple, and are not huge improvements on level 60 DN gear. We're not getting a level 64 skill. The trait cap is not being raised, and we're getting no new trait slots or anything like that.
Character progression is minimal from level 60 to 65. But we know we're getting Volume 3 early in 2010 (for free, mind you), and with that I expect we'll see major improvements on gear, new skills and a raise of the virtue cap (hopefully to 15 ).
The reason for not giving all this to start, is what do they give us in upgrades if the first set of upgrades is the best they're capable of giving us at that level (based on their calculated numbers of how strong players can be vs monsters on that level)? We end up with mediocre 'side grades' like DN armor that is not an improvement on watcher armor, so much as just as good, but different.
The lack of progression is simply a way to leave room for better upgrades later. Something they didn't do in moria.
Well, this may be the first (EDIT: or not... ^Brushfire^ typed faster, similar sentiment though) semi-positive post in this thread. I am quite happy that there were no major combat skills acquired and most of the utility skills granted are fine (although only one new skill/upgrade for 5 levels seems a little cheap). I have to agree with the nay-sayers that Wardens got shafted on this one since everyone else can get a similar port (albeit with an hour cooldown) with a little grinding (and Warden is one of two classes I don't play).
Many of you are now thinking "Brown noser! Go away and let us vent!"... oh well, I can't lessen your frustration, but I would like you to consider how far we are from Mt Doom and how difficult it would be to keep combat even close to balanced (or exciting) if more and more DPS skills are added to every class. I would LOVE to see more skills added that re-focus the classes back to the original definitions - Guardians should gain more tanking, Minis should gain more healing, LMs - well, they could use more debuff and curing ability, no additional CC is really needed, Champs SHOULD get more melee DPS, Hunters should get more ranged damage/effects and woods crafty skills, like campfires that speed up the loss of dread or some such, etc. Unfortunately if we get all these abilities at level 65, what will be left for the rest of the advancement through the rest of the epic quest line/additional zones?
I REALLY want this game to remain interesting for several more years, not just for one more expansion. I truly believe that THAT is what has driven the devs' choices regarding skills with this expansion and I applaud them for making a difficult and unpopular decision regarding immediate gratification in order to provide us with longer term gratification in expansions to come.
And for those that are dissapointed in their new Freep skills, remember, Creeps got NADA, NUTHING, ZIP, ZILCH, get the picture?
Last edited by Garan; Nov 19 2009 at 02:24 PM.
Reason: grammar
Gnashtooth - Rank 10 Warg - My breath's worse than my bite - but what d'ya want? I eat Hobbitsess fer cryin' out loud
Garan - Captain of little note - got parked at a Fell Scrying Pool so long it dried up and blew away
and many, many others...
"No, no, the hamsters are for the forums. The servers run on chinchillas!"-Patience 7/20/2007
The new hunter "skill" is downright insulting. Actually, the last few patches and the entire new expansion seems to want to get all hunters to reroll or quit....it's sad, really sad the way Turbine keeps punishing Hunters for for not saying "thank you" every time hey were nerfed...even the few buffs don't apply to hunters...just melee, healers, and casters...so they have nothing to counteract the buffed up bosses.
Congrats, that just sucked all the fun out of a new expansion coming out.
Feedback: Hunter, Warden, and Captains got the shaft.
True, but I'll bet a stack of SMs that my hunter uses his Mirkwood port a lot more often than my burg uses his improved Cure Poison (now with Scrubbing Bubbles!).
I'm not saying Hunters didn't get shafted; I'm just saying the burg community isn't rejoicing much either. "Long-awaited" improvement? Meh.
Feedback: Hunter, Warden, and Captains got the shaft. Withdraw is a pathetic excuse for a captains skill that is rarely if ever used. Hunters and wardens need REAL skills. Not ports. The ports should be on the side and a given. Pathetic.
Not quite - everyone not playing a Champion got the shaft. Yet again. Why do they continue to be the most favored class?
Look, a couple things. One, Hunter/Warden ports are incredibly useful (especially hunter) – instant travel, no cooldown. People with kindred rep don't get "the same" ability...they get the chance to quick travel once every hour on cooldown. Getting new ports is the first thing my hunter does in any expansion.
Two, do we *really* need new skills? My hunter's ok, but my guard, minstrel, LM, cappy, burg all have TONS of skills on three or four tiers of quickbars. Granted I play too many alts and I'm too old and/or we todd did to keep track of all the various specials and long cooldowns, but even still I just don't see much room for yet more junk to add into our skill rotations.
Upgrades, yes (RK needs some downgrades IMO, but that's another issue). Rebalancing, yes. Reworking the silly LI lottery, yes. I'm glad to see an expac focusing on this critical stuff, rather than handing out a bunch of basically superfluous new toys.
Very disapointed.
RPGs are supposed to be about improving our character.
With SoM, I am feeling like I am reducing my character, I'll loose my armour, my LIs, my weapons, my shields.....
And I get a port....a rep-gated port at that, that everyone also gets.
(meaning , I don't get anything).
Who in hell in Turbine has these bright ideas?
Please, enough with the grind (LIs, rad, reputation, Legacies, etc...) and more story/character improvement.
Imo.
PS - if Turbine spent more time making us having FUN, instead of grinding levels for no skill improvement, they might retain more players rather than simply adding mindless grind...imo.
Balance? It's good.
Fun? It's better....
Last edited by Bio-Flame; Nov 19 2009 at 02:37 PM.
As tempted to say 'FAIL' as I am, I will choose to be constructive instead.
Giving wardens and hunters one 'new skill' that we will need to grind rep for is insulting.
The poison upgrade for burglars MIGHT actually get the skill back on my toolbar. However, Burglars are in desparate need of a significant reworking. DPS should be significantly upgraded, considering their limited debuffs versus non humanoids and Turbine has still refused to scale FMs beyond level 50.....
Given that it has been more than a year since moria was released, I find it unfathomable that turbine has been unable to plot a course for a 5 level upgrade, especially given the serious miscalculations that were made with Moria-as evidenced by the severe buffs and/or nerfs that EVERY class has recieved since its release(and it is inarguably still not properly balanced).
But given this horrendous lack of planning, preparation, and testing, I would say that given the minimal skill improvements, it would have been a better plan to keep the level cap at 60-probably causing the expantion to be free-perhaps increasing the monthy subscription by a couple of dollars to make up for the lost revenue.
"As much fun as it would have been to unleash a lvl 60 Warg to endlessly rampage around the Shire gobbling up Hobbit newbs, I do have some small sense of restraint." Vastin
and with that I expect we'll see major improvements on gear, new skills and a raise of the virtue cap (hopefully to 15 ).
Nope Turbine said themselves that it's unlikely the virtue cap will be raised: Graal: Existing traits will probably not increase passed 10. We are looking at adding more virtues after Mirkwood
Originally Posted by Smashkilleat
Negativity festers in all of you!
(I know, ironic coming from me.)
Look, a couple things. One, Hunter/Warden ports are incredibly useful (especially hunter) – instant travel, no cooldown. People with kindred rep don't get "the same" ability...they get the chance to quick travel once every hour on cooldown. Getting new ports is the first thing my hunter does in any expansion.
Two, do we *really* need new skills? My hunter's ok, but my guard, minstrel, LM, cappy, burg all have TONS of skills on three or four tiers of quickbars. Granted I play too many alts and I'm too old and/or we todd did to keep track of all the various specials and long cooldowns, but even still I just don't see much room for yet more junk to add into our skill rotations.
Upgrades, yes (RK needs some downgrades IMO, but that's another issue). Rebalancing, yes. Reworking the silly LI lottery, yes. I'm glad to see an expac focusing on this critical stuff, rather than handing out a bunch of basically superfluous new toys.
Agree.
Everyone stop whining and wanting everything 'now' all the time. It's just one skill. God anyone would think some of the classes are lacking in skills to begin with the way you lot are talking. Oh sorry, i forgot, it's 'cool' to whine isn't it. Bah, just be thankful with what you've got. Turbine could have given us nothing, and they said so themselves that they're holding back on more character advancement-centric updates for the future/s expansions.
Last edited by Ruthelia; Nov 19 2009 at 02:49 PM.
Where are you going my fleet-footed friend,
from up upon High Moor is this journeys end?
There is a few reasons I'm kinda po about the port. It really is stupid that we have to grind rep to get our skill, and nobody else (except wardens) do. I play to have fun, fun usually involves combat skills, or something useful (upgrades). A port is something that hunter should have either way....so.....I dont get it
Also they do keep putting in more and more grinding. The look of SoM is that are characters all get downgraded and we grind legendaries to get it back uP??? &&&. I do not even like leveling. The entire legendary weapon thing kinda bugs me, I wish we could get one weapon and upgrade it forever. It doesn't have a level, we can upgrade the weapon through raiding items...that would be a lot less of a grind. We wouldn't have to constantly go find new **** to use.
Why are the hunters crying? I would much rather have a group port than what Guards, Capts, Burgs, or RKs will get.
Did they all cry when they got a 21st hall port? I bet that was useless too hmm?
"Basically you get a weapon, or a piece of armour or a shield and it has it's own advancement path. It has XP. It has Deeds. You grow it, almost like a pet alongside you. Your Glamdring that has it's own history." - Jeffery Steefel, March 14th, 2008
It is a decent upgrade...not a great one though. It is something that may save a little time, which could in turn stop a wipe. Same with the burg poison removal. It may not be something ideal, or something to look forward to but it is certainly an upgrade.
Wow, my two mains are Warden and Hunter. First of all let me just reiterate that blatantly, yes, ports are a given and should not be considered as an exciting new skill. Obviously something that we use in combat would be far, far more useful and actually feel like an upgrade.
Well, at least we know the level cap increase is just to force us to grind out new legendaries. GG Turbine.
Sapience on the unimportance of PvMP:
"...If those eyes see 100s of replies for one feature and 0 for another in those threads, which do you think is most likely to be addressed?"
Wow, my two mains are Warden and Hunter. First of all let me just reiterate that blatantly, yes, ports are a given and should not be considered as an exciting new skill. Obviously something that we use in combat would be far, far more useful and actually feel like an upgrade.
Well, at least we know the level cap increase is just to force us to grind out new legendaries. GG Turbine.
Yep, I see this game just keeps going into this hole. Grinding legendary weapons and levels...
The only good thing is they make it easier to level at lower levels, although there is now more levels...so its the same amount of time...
I just wish the would stop increasing the level cap sometime and make it more based off rep/legenary upgrades. Make it so you gain rep through an area, and not grind it. Maybe a quest or 2 per spot just so you see an entire zone. I don't see the point in going to the same spot 10x to pick **** up, and kill ****.
One skill upgrade, no new virtues(as advertised), no class quets( as advertised)
Oh and in addition, Hunters and Wardens, you get a port as your NEW skills. Congratz, oh and you have to barter for it, and when people get kindred your new skill will be less useful. You're welcome.
Let's get back on topic.
SoM skill upgrades = the smallest amount of progression that was phsycially possible before actually taking skills away from us.
On that note: At least we didn't lose skills with SoM.
FAIL.
/cheers turbine
"A Wizard is Never Late, Nor is He Early, He Arrives Precisely when He Means to."
Minstrels and Champs seem to be the only ones really gaining a lot here. Most of those seem to be sort of bland skills...
But for the record, after seeing Remorseless Strikes crit, I think champs are getting repayed juuust fine for the fervour nerf I mean, 3k damage in 1 crit is pretty freakin awesome...
And of course I cant tell how many times I've had to argue with myself trying to decide who to cure dread from. No more of that! Yay!
Last edited by sir-rinthian; Nov 19 2009 at 03:03 PM.
"The rejection of grammatical correction is proof of the level of intelligence hinted at by your writing."
Now please keep this discussion on topic or you may be reported for causing time mismanagement
Look, a couple things. One, Hunter/Warden ports are incredibly useful (especially hunter) – instant travel, no cooldown. People with kindred rep don't get "the same" ability...they get the chance to quick travel once every hour on cooldown.
Solo travel on a shared cooldown with racial port, if I understand right. The Kindred skill is not remotely like the Hunter port. Especially since getting Acquaintance rep is trivial (My Burg had Acquaintance just from doing the quests that got him to level 61). Kindred rep is going to be a grind, no doubt, especially since I didn't see any rep items. Or friendly flower-gathering like in Lorien.
Has anyone been happy with the skill upgrades yet??? if so I haven't seen it
The Guardian skill upgrade is pure frosting. They took a useless skill and made it somewhat useful. What's gonna be wrong with that?
Solo travel on a shared cooldown with racial port, if I understand right. The Kindred skill is not remotely like the Hunter port. Especially since getting Acquaintance rep is trivial (My Burg had Acquaintance just from doing the quests that got him to level 61). Kindred rep is going to be a grind, no doubt, especially since I didn't see any rep items. Or friendly flower-gathering like in Lorien.
The Guardian skill upgrade is pure frosting. They took a useless skill and made it somewhat useful. What's gonna be wrong with that?
The guardians skill is decent. Weather your doing a 6 or 12 man if your group gets a little spread you can simply sprint and get aggro and do what ya need to do, and in PvP the skill is l33t
I sympathize with the hunters/wardens with the port skill. They really should have gotten something different more suited to what they can do in combat (even if it's on the scale of something like the poison buff the burgs got).
The poison 'buff' we got will raise my awareness of the skill ever so slightly. I guess I can be happy because heaven forbid they could have done something like...
.
.
.
.
.
.
'Improved Contact Pedlar'!!! ZOMG!!!
Though...if the pedlars sold 1st age LI's, then I would consider that a MAJOR buff....^^
"[...] no really, put the energy drink down... that's it... lay your head on the keyboard and let your face type something entertaining while you snooze a little... there ya go..." - jwbarry, Content Designer, Skirmishes
While true that there is only one 'official' skill upgrade per class, it seems that many skills are getting upgraded through the reworking of various item legacies.
Perhaps more will become clear after we've had a chance to view the specifics on the new and improved item legacies?
We appreciate how this may be disappointing to some of you
Have to love when developers know that their "Expansion Pack" is going to disappoint people so much that they openly admit it two week before launch.
Not wanting to release unbalanced skills? Really? I guess that makes sense because you know, the game didn't have a Beta or anything... oh wait, it did. As well as the fact that was already mentioned about how the LI changes could easily be as detrimental/unbalanced as new skills could be.
Add to that the no new passive skills, traits, trait slots, virtues, virtue slots, legendary skills, legendary slots, class quests, or gear/items that actually make your character better than they currently are at 60, and I will once again say that we are paying for a book update with a fake level cap increase.
Complete rubbish.
And to those saying "Just wait 3 months and we might get new stuff!" No. We did not pay money for this expansion for updates that won't be out until April. Look what waiting since book 8 has gotten us.
Last edited by Kodrro; Nov 19 2009 at 03:21 PM.
Sarunath 65 Hunter - Evirath 61 Captain - Kodrro 65 Burglar - Tarunath 60 Lore-master - Whoracle 65 Minstrel Turbine - Powered by our fans, even the ones who cheat. - Retired for the time being.
No class in this game actually *needs* new skills. We all have dozens of skills. We have more skills than we know what to do with already. No new skills.
No class in this game actually *needs* new skills. We all have dozens of skills. We have more skills than we know what to do with already. No new skills.
Yes, please let us have an expansion that does not ya know... EXPAND
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Originally Posted by Brushfire
Landy: Alphanova 3.0 - R10 RK Hitman for Mother Nature
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Re: Dev Diary Feedback: SoM Skill Upgrades
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