Discussion: Dev Diary Feedback: SoM Skill Upgrades

With the decision to place the main focus of the systems work for Siege of Mirkwood™ on our basic combat and item advancement systems, we had to re-evaluate what that would mean for class skills and how changing or adding to them would alter the balance we were looking for with the other changes.

Read more about the SoM Skill Upgrades and post your comments here!

My comment:

Fail.

As a hunter, this new "skill" is more than disappointing. It's insulting. You're reinforcing the idea that we are nothing more than fancy taxis with bows. Not only that, but we have to have rep and barter items to get our new "skill". Do the other classes need to do that? I'm guessing they can march right up to their class trainer and buy their skill. No additional grinding beyond the level itself and however much silver it takes to purchase it. Although, I suppose in this instace, wardens do have it worse...

I'd have been less annoyed to get an upgrade to my campfire. (Marshmallows anyone?)

did you guys read the first part of the diary?

they don't want to add new combat skill just yet with all the combat changes.

and believe me, they are right.

Well disappointing is what I would say, especially for hunters and wardens however lower level ports are skills so this is just a continuation.

If the reason actually is as they say - out of concern for balance with the new combat system - then so be it. Nothing would be worse than introducing a badly balanced new skill to the mix as well.

Envoyé par cdpengys

As a hunter, this new "skill" is more than disappointing. It's insulting. You're reinforcing the idea that we are nothing more than fancy taxis with bows. Not only that, but we have to have rep and barter items to get our new "skill". Do the other classes need to do that? I'm guessing they can march right up to their class trainer and buy their skill. No additional grinding beyond the level itself and however much silver it takes to purchase it. Although, I suppose in this instace, wardens do have it worse...

I'd have been less annoyed to get an upgrade to my campfire. (Marshmallows anyone?)

Do not forget that everyone can get this skill with Kindred rep, too... I wish my Hunter could get Kindred rep and a get group remove dread skill...

Captain

Fighting Withdrawal replaces Withdrawal
This upgrade removes the damage penalty, increases the amount of threat reduction, and minimizes the threat gained through damage by the Captain while in effect.

withdraw has never been on my bar and neither will this. i doubt i'll even buy the upgrade.

WTB something useful

Oh, I get that they don't want to risk messing up combat even more, but why not upgrade an existing skill? And barring that, why not let us BUY the port from our trainers? Maybe I wanted to hang on to those barter items for something more useful...

Why not just admit that Turbine has less people and can't do the type of work they did with Moria and SOA. Orion is doing the work of 5 people. Zombie and Floon can only do so much. If money is to tight to hire new people do you think this is going to help bring in more people?

Envoyé par OptimShi

Do not forget that everyone can get this skill with Kindred rep, too... I wish my Hunter could get Kindred rep and a get group remove dread skill...

Oh, lovely. So, they make us fancy taxis and then give our keys to anyone with the time to grind out the rep?

Let me take a moment and summarize my feelings about this:

Fail.

The lack of real character advancement is the biggest disappointment for me in SoM. The LM skill is barely useful.

And if they didn't want to mess with combat skills, why did they upgrade combat skills?

Lore-master
Ancient Knowledge of Cures replaces Leech-craft
This skill uses all the restrictions and upgrades for Leech-craft but combines Wound cures and resistance with Disease cures and resistance.

Complete and Utter fail.

AKoC will still share the same restrictions that Leech-Craft has. That means a couple of things:
- Still unusable in Combat (unless traited).
- Still Single Target Only (unless traited).
- If not traited, you will still need to keep Tend the Sick in your Quick-Bar.
- Tend the Sick has no cooldown and its induction is minor.

Why not upgrade Tend the Sick and give it a Wound-Removal? That way we could:
- Remove a wound from a target on my raid, but on a different fellowship.
- Would be able to remove wounds, in-combat and single-target.
- Save QuickSlot real-estate.
- Make LM's Happy!

Envoyé par rufen

did you guys read the first part of the diary?

they don't want to add new combat skill just yet with all the combat changes.

and believe me, they are right.

And yet they gave the most broken and unbalanced class in SoA (Champions) a major upgrade to a skill that does massive damage, and gave Guardians a skill that gives them a huge burst damage buff with a fairly short cooldown...

Meanwhile Burglars get a "long-awaited" (lol) poison cure upgrade, Captains get an upgrade to a combat skill that none of them ever uses and Wardens/Hunters get...a port.

Envoyé par willwheels

And if they didn't want to mess with combat skills, why did they upgrade combat skills?

.....This!

Envoyé par LagunaD

And yet they gave the most broken and unbalanced class in SoA (Champions) a major upgrade to a skill that does massive damage, and gave Guardians a skill that gives them a huge burst damage buff with a fairly short cooldown...

Meanwhile Burglars get a "long-awaited" (lol) poison cure upgrade, Captains get an upgrade to a combat skill that none of them ever uses and Wardens/Hunters get...a port.

Champs: Its good its solid... Everyone else should get this kind of upgrade.

Guards: Its 10% and its not that short of a CD. Its still very very good.

Burgs: Were OP already dps wise. I think things such as a Stealth becomes +1 level or A skill on a 15 min CD that lets you hop into mischievous while in combat (MIPS). Upgrading Aim to Give 10% Dev crit chance etc... Woulda been nice.

Captains... Meh, ideally its a good skill and may be a good skill in raids assuming AOE and random boss aggro arent the order of day.

Hunters and Wardens... The sheer fact you need to barter for them... TOTAL FAILURE. Even more for Wardens since they cant take anyone with them.

I find it pretty funny that this dev diary isn't even linked on the main forum page.

Last day for pre-orders!!

This is extremely disappointing and highly annoying. I understand they don't want to tweak combat skills given the changes to the combat system itself, but only giving Hunters (and Wardens) a port skill as the one skill we get during the expansion... I really and desperately hope that this is not a sign of things to come with class development.

I appreciate everything else Turbine has done with SoM thus far in terms of character panel redesign and combat changes, but consider me not impressed whatsoever for these "new skills"

Personally, I'd rather not gain anymore new skills.
Some classes have too many as it is.

I'd rather see upgrades to the skills we have.

They should have just left the level cap at 60.

Envoyé par rufen

did you guys read the first part of the diary?

they don't want to add new combat skill just yet with all the combat changes.

and believe me, they are right.

But they sure do love changing their LIs around.

Those have plenty of annoyances with players too, but they sure don't hold back on constantly working on them.

Can we just work on the stuff that MATTERS first? LIs should never, ever be something that is integral to character progression; just fun stuff that personalizes Johnny from Susie. I'd really like to get some actual skills and traits that you get from levelling up. That's what RPG characters are about; doing new things with the stabbity thing, not the stabbity thing itself. I understand the reasoning of holding off because of the combat changes, but LIs should never get more attention than skills.

Next book update better have some good darn stuff in it for 64.

Five levels is fail for new skills anyway. Argh.

note to hunters and wardens, if you don't already have the required rep to purchase your skill by the time you get to lvl 62, you're a miracle worker. The "rep grind" to get your lvl 62 skill is incredibly easy, and comes naturally through questing up to lvl 62.

.02

That said, yes, it's kinda dubious that everybody eventually (thru the rep grind) gets the lvl 62 warden skill. At least hunters get a lvl 62 skill that can save the fellowship some travelling rations, lol.

.

Ugh, now I have to get rep in order to buy a skill that ports myself only!

im glad they raised the level cap but being hunter and warden are the class's i play i am very disappointed. after all, we all know that as the "revamp" of areas come online everyone will get rep port abilitys, which is all most of the community thinks a hunter is good for anyway. further hunters have been nerffed time and time again so when the diary says that the upgrades wont be for combat skills but there is ONE class that gets a boost to combat and its champ, who already have a secondary role in a fellowship as a offtank where hunter/warden have NO secondary rolls. the REP GATED ports hunter/warden get are a joke.

grds and wrdns are about equal in tanking ability imho. grd has some headway in some areas but mostly they are par for one another. but where a guardian can secondary dps in OP wardens really cant do much although i have read on nda lifted threads after som gos live wardens are better off in this department.

giving hunters and wards only a gated port ability when everyone will be able to get them in the future is unfair and STUPID!!

* Minstrel

Chorus of Restoration replaces Song of Restoration
This skill now removes Dread from all members of the Minstrel’s Fellowship (including the Minstrel!). *

You have got to be kidding me! Group fear removal was one of the few unique Captain skills. Come on Turbine its not like we had a whole lot to offer in the first place! First goes In Harms Way now this. Captains are a grouping class and now we offer less and less to the fellowship.

I could have sworn we were told that the level 62 skills were going to be skill upgrades.

Envoyé par cdpengys

As a hunter, this new "skill" is more than disappointing. It's insulting. You're reinforcing the idea that we are nothing more than fancy taxis with bows. Not only that, but we have to have rep and barter items to get our new "skill". Do the other classes need to do that? I'm guessing they can march right up to their class trainer and buy their skill. No additional grinding beyond the level itself and however much silver it takes to purchase it. Although, I suppose in this instace, wardens do have it worse...

I'd have been less annoyed to get an upgrade to my campfire. (Marshmallows anyone?)

I have to agree here. All of these "upgrades" are very meh in my opinion and the fact that everyone can gain the same ports gives to hunters and wardens just by grinding rep just ads insult to injury for those classes. I guess as someone who's played a hunter since closed beta I shouldn't be surprised when all we get is a kick in the teeth though.

As others have said these "upgrades" = fail.

Envoyé par phillbvi2

* Minstrel

Chorus of Restoration replaces Song of Restoration
This skill now removes Dread from all members of the Minstrel’s Fellowship (including the Minstrel!). *

You have got to be kidding me! Group fear removal was one of the few unique Captain skills. Come on Turbine its not like we had a whole lot to offer in the first place! First goes In Harms Way now this. Captains are a grouping class and now we offer less and less to the fellowship.

No its the dread from dying, not fear effects. Its also on like a 15 min cd.

Envoyé par phillbvi2

* Minstrel

Chorus of Restoration replaces Song of Restoration
This skill now removes Dread from all members of the Minstrel’s Fellowship (including the Minstrel!). *

You have got to be kidding me! Group fear removal was one of the few unique Captain skills. Come on Turbine its not like we had a whole lot to offer in the first place! First goes In Harms Way now this. Captains are a grouping class and now we offer less and less to the fellowship.

If it's one of the few things going for captains then why have I never had a captain use this skill after a wipe in an instance.

I like that I'm getting something somewhat useful for wipes while raiding.

Envoyé par ararax2

No its the dread from dying, not fear effects. Its also on like a 15 min cd.

Oh my bad. Sorry. I totally fogot about that skill. Hmmm... thats a very interesting skill now, should speed up things quite a bit.

When I saw that Wardens were getting a port I was dissappointed but not horribly so as I like being able to get around easily and I appreciate what looks to be a solid cleanup of the lotro combat systems. Now I feel a little ticked off that our skill is available to absolutely everyone given some time. If everyone gets it, then essentially Wardens got nothing. Granted most of these upgrades are weak anyway but i'd like to get something at least a tiny bit unique to my class.

Envoyé par Bayleron

When I saw that Wardens were getting a port I was dissappointed but not horribly so as I like being able to get around easily and I appreciate what looks to be a solid cleanup of the lotro combat systems. Now I feel a little ticked off that our skill is available to absolutely everyone given some time. If everyone gets it, then essentially Wardens got nothing. Granted most of these upgrades are weak anyway but i'd like to get something at least a tiny bit unique to my class.

It is still lame, but the 'generic' port has a 1-hour cooldown, while the Warden muster does not.

Don't you feel a lot better now?

I can certainly understand the issue about "turning too many dials at once", this makes sense for proper development methodology. However, the inconsistent application is very troubling.

For example, the stark difference between Champion and Warden skill upgrades in incomprehensible. Why do Champs get a combat-only, DPS-centric upgrade while Wardens get just a port that apparently anyone with Kindred rep can duplicate? Either don't give out combat skills to anyone, or give them to everyone. I don't begrudge the Champs their cool new skill but am not sure why they got a super DPS boost with this skill and some other classes get just an effective travel speed boost.

If the goal instead was to minimize dev time invested, why not do something simple for Wardens like boost the morale leeched from Exultation of Battle or increase the damage % buff of Warden's Triumph? I'm sure other Wardens would have different suggestions on what they would prefer getting at level 62, but I am sure there would be unanimous feedback that a port is a waste compared to what Champs (or even Guards) get, and *especially* if Kindred rep affords similar functionality.

Feedback: Hunter, Warden, and Captains got the shaft. Withdraw is a pathetic excuse for a captains skill that is rarely if ever used. Hunters and wardens need REAL skills. Not ports. The ports should be on the side and a given. Pathetic.

ohh well what can we do about it. not a thing. hunters are used to getting bent over anyway.
for warden its a newer feeling

Envoyé par Murtanion

Feedback: Hunter, Warden, and Captains got the shaft. Withdraw is a pathetic excuse for a captains skill that is rarely if ever used. Hunters and wardens need REAL skills. Not ports. The ports should be on the side and a given. Pathetic.

Yep, and I play a Hunter, Warden and Captain - don't I feel special

So we get more grind and no real new skills to speak of. Fail. Regretting my decision to go lifetime sub.

Envoyé par LagunaD

My comment:

Fail.

Agreed.

I can't wait to use my improved poison clear!!

Envoyé par disappearingone

ohh well what can we do about it. not a thing. hunters are used to getting bent over anyway.
for warden its a newer feeling

Nah, our hearts were ripped out long ago, so we shouldn't feel anything, and Graal confirmed that any feeling on the part of Wardens is an exploit.

Envoyé par Graalx2

It is possible under certain extreme lag conditions for Wardens to regain their hearts. This is will be considered an exploit and any Warden found actually possessing a heart will be stripped of it forthwith as well as being placed under a cooky ban for all perpetuity.

Thus, this new skill will be taken in stride by Wardens spending 10s per port as opposed to the likely 28s swift travel to the same/close location.

"We appreciate how this may be disappointing to some of you"

My main is a Hunter and disappointment doesn't really capture my opinion of the new skill. A Port that is rep gated??? Seriously?? It's not even unique, with Wardens getting a Muster to the same place. Pure unadulterated Fail imo...

On the other hand, Shall Not Fall This Day for my RK looks relatively good. Makes total sense even though I think it duplicates other skills like WoE for the most part.

The skill for my Guardian looks like the best of the bunch. Brutal Charge is definitely an improvement and worth having. Thanks for that at least!