Thread: XP Reducer

Would you please let me know if the Siege of Mirkwood will have one or more features that will allow users to reduce or stop XP gain.

I have not been adventuring for the past couple of months in the hopes that I will be able to enjoy the vast number of books and regions set up for Level 50 characters (when Level 50 was the cap) without levelling past them.

Admittedly, my decision was based on hope and not on any promise (explicit or implicit) in anything that LOTRO said.

But I would like to know if it will do me any good to continue to do this.

It will also affect my decision to purchase Siege of Mirkwood.

I should not have purchased Mines of Moria until I was done with this Level 50 content I wanted to enjoy at level. That would have allowed me to keep the Level 50 cap without asking for any special feature. Unfortunately, I did not think about this at the time. I made a mistake in purchasing Mines of Moria until I had finished this content, and I know of no way to reverse this error.

I now know not to make this mistake with any future expansions. Though, with an option to reduce or stop XP gain, I would not have to worry about it.

If Siege of Mirkwood will not contain a way to optionally stop or slow leveling, but Mines of Moria can be uninstalled until after I finished Book 1, that would be a useful (though not a preferred) alternative.

Thank you.

Turbine has not indicated anything suggesting that they will have a feature for reducing XP gain in SoM.

Also, it is not possible to "uninstall" MoM, since it is based on your account status, which you have already applied the MoM key to and it cannot be removed.

Originally Posted by Tiempko

Would you please let me know if the Siege of Mirkwood will have one or more features that will allow users to reduce or stop XP gain.

I have not been adventuring for the past couple of months in the hopes that I will be able to enjoy the vast number of books and regions set up for Level 50 characters (when Level 50 was the cap) without levelling past them.

Admittedly, I my decision was based on hope and not on any promise (explicit or implicit) in anything that LOTRO said.

But I would like to know if it will do me any good to continue to do this.

It will also affect my decision to purchase Siege of Mirkwood. In fact, I should not have purchased Mines of Moria until I was done with this Level 50 content I wanted to enjoy at level. That would have allowed me to keep the Level 50 cap without asking for any special feature. Unfortunately, I did not think about this at the time, and I know of no way to uninstall Mines of Moria.

If Siege of Mirkwood will not contain a way to optionally stop or (preferably) slow leveling, but Mines of Moria can be uninstalled until after I have finished the Level 50 content I would like to enjoy at level, I would appreciate knowing how this can be done.

Thank you.

This won't really do any good... there's very few people who actually want to stop XP gain.

Is there some reason why you can't just do the quests til you are done? Why do you care that you get xp? just keep doing the quest lines til they are done. Most people look for optimal xp yields, but why would you if that doesn't interest you? just keep plugging along.

This issue still makes no sense to me ......

Originally Posted by Herohtar

Turbine has not indicated anything suggesting that they will have a feature for reducing XP gain in SoM.

Actually, a long time ago there was a "Tell The Community Team" question about whether users would like a toggle that disables XP from mobs.


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Originally Posted by Wu-Thunderkiss

Is there some reason why you can't just do the quests til you are done? Why do you care that you get xp? just keep doing the quest lines til they are done. Most people look for optimal xp yields, but why would you if that doesn't interest you? just keep plugging along.

This issue still makes no sense to me ......

He wants to do the level 50 stuff with a level 50 toon. If you level past them you lose the challenge and they become trivial.

Originally Posted by cicdle

He wants to do the level 50 stuff with a level 50 toon. If you level past them you lose the challenge and they become trivial.

People say this, then I think, why not just take on 5 mobs at a time if you want a challenge?

Originally Posted by stubing

People say this, then I think, why not just take on 5 mobs at a time if you want a challenge?

Because that's a different challenge. The idea behind his suggestion, which is valid (I've come to find I am more picky about letting higher level toons just drag me through early quests Tiempko brought up the topic for the first time earlier this year, something I am greatful for) is that content is designed for a specific level. Notice that in the skirmish setup they allow you to scale the level?

Another way of looking at it:

Think about the ixp instances in Dolven View, specifically the Training Hall. Think back to the first time you did it. It was challenging not because of the magnetude of the enemies, but because you had to be tricksy and watch your step. On my main, a 60 Guardian, I can now go in and clear the entire room in about two waves. Taking on all those enemies at once is a challenge, for sure, but it is a different challenge than the one the devs imagined. I'm not saying it's not fun to go in and just total a blue instance...but sometimes I feel like I would rather experience the content for the first time at-level so that it is balanced proberly for whatever solo or group composition we may have.

It is a feature that, at first, I was against as I considered it a waste of resources...but as time goes on and I think about it more, the more I wish it was in the game.

Originally Posted by Thrandiul110

This won't really do any good... there's very few people who actually want to stop XP gain.

Based on my own experience with this forum, I rarely post anymore, because whenever I inquired about something like this very post, I got shouted down by people just like you.

After a while, that just gets frustrating and feels like a waste of time (of which I don't have a lot to spare), and so I spend the time elsewhere and you don't get to hear opinions like mine. Dismissal posts like yours are NOT based on fact, they are based on assumption simply because you don't hear folks like us often enough to notice how many of us there are. I would love it if LOTRO did send out a questionnaire to every single player with queries as to whom would prefer what so we could all know what the exact numbers are on who thinks what about whatever--but I know how much of a resource drain that would be, and so I'm not holding my breath.

I'm sure there is a bit of "birds of a feather" going on here. The folks I've actually talked with who can't understand why some of us don't want to bang right through the game and/or be godlike all seem to be the types who only want more bonus xp, which to me is a very limited way of playing a game. There are some who are ambivalent, but they're usually not the naysayers when things like this are addressed.

As a role-player, I have many reasons for wanting to be able to deny a bonus(or bonuses), completely freeze or even roll back my xp. I even have a short list of why a feature like this would be great that have nothing to do with rp.

But to get back to the Birds of a Feather point: because I know a lot of rpers in the game, I know a lot of folk who would be very happy to have the ability to control xp in ways other than we can now. (Not the least of which is because we only have seven slots per server, and since Landroval is the most rp friendly, all of my characters--even my creeps are now there, so re-rolls are a headache because I do actually like to progress as well.) And on the non rp side, for one example, I also know other people who actually would enjoy playing at or below level in game all the time.

On the practical side, I know a lot of people who don't play LOTRO as often as they would if they had such a feature--some left the game entirely even though they are hard core LOTR fans. And since not all of those who limit their play are lifetime subscribers, that's money that is not going into Turbine's pockets everytime they skip a month or more to play something else. Sooner or later, if this isn't addressed, either more of us are going to use this issue to be our "pick your battle" moment, or more of us who would be so very happy with this feature (and would tell our friends to come back when it was made available) will also be gone.

Different games attract different people for exactly these types of reasons. But for those of us who love so many other aspects of this game, it's a frustrating straw that just keeps getting heavier on the proverbial camel's back as time goes by.

You can already disable leveling your weapons. How hard can it be to add an option like that for your characters?

I am not against the idea, but I just think that 0.001% of lotro players will use this. Then again it is easy to code.

Originally Posted by stubing

I am not against the idea, but I just think that 0.001% of lotro players will use this. Then again it is easy to code.

It's nice that you can pull 0.001% out of a hat but I think you are mistaken that such a low % of players might utilize a XP-reduction feature. Fact is that the OP would probably use such a feature as would I and that's already far and above your assumed % based on respondents to this thread.

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Originally Posted by Muddyfoot

It's nice that you can pull 0.001% out of a hat but I think you are mistaken that such a low % of players might utilize a XP-reduction feature. Fact is that the OP would probably use such a feature as would I and that's already far and above your assumed % based on respondents to this thread.

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People come to the threads to ask for this. Most people don't care if this is added, but Turbine can go ahead and add this. I don't make the decision. I am just stating what I think about this.

As I mentioned in my survey response not long ago, I am also a member of that small percentage and I'm voting with my wallet.

I'm not getting a lifetime subscription, a second subscription, the next upgrade, or buying the game for my brother until I can de-level, un-experience or *something* that allows on-level challenges for my first time through things.

It should only take the lost revenue from a handful of people like me to justify the cost of the few man-hours required to code something... Call it 'Hard Mode'

People seem to forget that not everyone has already done everything once and not every level 20 is an alt trying to get to Cap.

Originally Posted by Herohtar

Turbine has not indicated anything suggesting that they will have a feature for reducing XP gain in SoM.

Originally Posted by Thrandiul110

This won't really do any good... there's very few people who actually want to stop XP gain.

Actually, as NotYetMeasured reported, a couple of months ago Turbine asked players if they would use an artifact that temporarily stopped XP gain. This shows that they have considered options.

While there were certainly a lot of players who said they would not use such a feature, there were also quite a few who said that they would. And this was on a forum that was advertised as a discussion on end-game issues, which would keep those wishing for an XP reducer away.

Finally, because LOTRO does not have a way to stop or slow XP progress, it also does not have those players (paying customers) who would value these features. The real question they should have asked is not how many current customers would value such a change, but how many new customers they might gain.

Originally Posted by stubing

People say this, then I think, why not just take on 5 mobs at a time if you want a challenge?

First, I like role-playing. However, I do not like being forced to role-play the village idiot who runs into battle in his skivvies shouting so as to attract as many opponents as possible. I prefer to play the role of a character who takes on great dangers intelligently.

Second, this type of challenge would still force me through and past 50th level in a way that would allow me to enjoy just a small fraction of the levels and books built for 50th level characters before it becomes trivial.

How many adventure stories have you enjoyed where the Hero faces such trivial challenges that he has to do stupid things just to work up a sweat. That type of action is generally not classified as adventure. It is classified as farce.

WoW has had this feature for a while. PvP'ers use it to stay eligible for certain level-restricted battlegrounds, friends use it to be able to play the game but not out-level friends who play less often, RP'ers use it to enhance their RP adventures. It would just be a nice option to have.

If Blizzard found it worth while to implement, then I would think Turbine would find it extremely worth while.

I for one would definately use it



/signed!

Originally Posted by Tiempko

Actually, as NotYetMeasured reported, a couple of months ago Turbine asked players if they would use an artifact that temporarily stopped XP gain. This shows that they have considered options.

While there were certainly a lot of players who said they would not use such a feature, there were also quite a few who said that they would. And this was on a forum that was advertised as a discussion on end-game issues, which would keep those wishing for an XP reducer away.

Considering that Turbine did ask players several months ago about this option and that it's still not in the game, it's possible that their research indicated that not enough people wanted it to warrant them adding it in.

On the other hand, perhaps these skirmishes and their customizable levels are the testing ground for such a feature *shrug*

Originally Posted by Tiempko

I have not been adventuring for the past couple of months in the hopes that I will be able to enjoy the vast number of books and regions set up for Level 50 characters (when Level 50 was the cap) without levelling past them.

So let me get this straight...you're not adventuring through new material, so you can adventure through other new material later?

I don't want to come across as snarky...(thoughts of OCD come to mind)...but seriously, what's your rationale?

Why are you not doing the level 50+ material in hopes of doing OTHER level 50 material later??

I'm really at a loss to understand this position. Play the game. Don't hold back, they'll make more.

Now, if you're done with everything, have DN on farm, and R10+ in the moors...then I'd suggest there's reason to complain about not enough material coming out. But to actively NOT play the existing material becuase you're waiting for more material just doesn't make sense to me.

Originally Posted by Thane9

I'm really at a loss to understand this position.

For a lot of us, the game was a lot more fun when levelling was much harder, and quests at level 20, 30, and 40 could be a challenge that took groups days to master. Hopefully, it's understandable that some of us want to recapture that, even if it these proposals won't really achieve that.

Personally, I favour this idea out of nostalgia for the original SoA experience (or a whole two years ago - seems a byegone era) despite realizing that I'd likely not use the /xpoff toggle.

The logical extreme of "don't worry how fast you progress" is to say that it's fine for everyone to start at level 60 with optimized traits and gear, since we can all still "play the game".

Originally Posted by Thane9

So let me get this straight...you're not adventuring through new material, so you can adventure through other new material later?

I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that the OP is waiting at level 45 to see if an XP reducer will be added in the expansion. If it will be, then he/she will continue to wait at 45 until it is out so that they can hang out at 50 for a while and complete all of the content, raids, etc...

And personally, I would not use an XP reducer much, but since my husband and I are leveling characters together, it would be really useful when my kinmates need a healer and he is out of town on business. The way it is now, if I help friends, then he has to grind mobs to catch back up without doing our quests. Its kind of silly.

Originally Posted by Danaca

I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that the OP is waiting at level 45 to see if an XP reducer will be added in the expansion. If it will be, then he/she will continue to wait at 45 until it is out so that they can hang out at 50 for a while and complete all of the content, raids, etc...

And personally, I would not use an XP reducer much, but since my husband and I are leveling characters together, it would be really useful when my kinmates need a healer and he is out of town on business. The way it is now, if I help friends, then he has to grind mobs to catch back up without doing our quests. Its kind of silly.

You do know there's no maximum level to anything in this game right?

I'm still failing to see how there is a problem with leveling. UNLESS you're at cap and have completed EVERYTHING. Which very, very, VERY few people have. I can count on one hand the number of groups who successfully run DN on Landroval that I know of anyhow...

Why would he have to "catch back up"? Let alone grind mobs...but that even confuses me more...if you want to be able to turn off xp you know you'll end up grinding far more mobs than if you just left xp alone and leveled as you played. So turning off xp cannot be used as a reason to ever want to grind less. By definition you'll HAVE to grind more to reach the same level as someone who didn't turn their xp off.

Alternatively I guess you could have the person who fell behind buy rest xp. That'd catch them up to someone w/o rest xp on reasonably fast.

That's the thing, though...it's not about being a completionary. I personally don't want to complete everything in the game on one toon. That seems like a waste of time and effort. After all, how fun is it to go back and do level 42 Angmar quests, for example, on a level 60? Not very. I usually start and get bored in a few minutes because of the lack of challenge (and the fact that mobs don't even agg to me so I can kill them). The thing is about completing those quests AT 42.

Originally Posted by Tiempko

Would you please let me know if the Siege of Mirkwood will have one or more features that will allow users to reduce or stop XP gain.

I have not been adventuring for the past couple of months in the hopes that I will be able to enjoy the vast number of books and regions set up for Level 50 characters (when Level 50 was the cap) without levelling past them.

Admittedly, my decision was based on hope and not on any promise (explicit or implicit) in anything that LOTRO said.

But I would like to know if it will do me any good to continue to do this.

It will also affect my decision to purchase Siege of Mirkwood.

I should not have purchased Mines of Moria until I was done with this Level 50 content I wanted to enjoy at level. That would have allowed me to keep the Level 50 cap without asking for any special feature. Unfortunately, I did not think about this at the time. I made a mistake in purchasing Mines of Moria until I had finished this content, and I know of no way to reverse this error.

I now know not to make this mistake with any future expansions. Though, with an option to reduce or stop XP gain, I would not have to worry about it.

If Siege of Mirkwood will not contain a way to optionally stop or slow leveling, but Mines of Moria can be uninstalled until after I finished Book 1, that would be a useful (though not a preferred) alternative.

Thank you.

You won't be satisfied either way. What happens when you get your /xpoff function and complete everything in SOA (which I did and was lvl 58 before stepping foot in Moria, but I digress...) and then turn on your XP and continue into Moria and follow the questlines? You'll end up less than halfway through the content at lvl 57 and realize you missed a 52-53 zone... you'll be at a loss, feeling frustrated and back here on these forums demanding a level reduction function... which IMO is on the verge of exploitation.

Slippery slope, my friend. Enjoy the game and as Gandalf said, "All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us."

Originally Posted by Thane9

You do know there's no maximum level to anything in this game right?

I'm still failing to see how there is a problem with leveling. UNLESS you're at cap and have completed EVERYTHING. Which very, very, VERY few people have. I can count on one hand the number of groups who successfully run DN on Landroval that I know of anyhow...

Why would he have to "catch back up"? Let alone grind mobs...but that even confuses me more...if you want to be able to turn off xp you know you'll end up grinding far more mobs than if you just left xp alone and leveled as you played. So turning off xp cannot be used as a reason to ever want to grind less. By definition you'll HAVE to grind more to reach the same level as someone who didn't turn their xp off.

Alternatively I guess you could have the person who fell behind buy rest xp. That'd catch them up to someone w/o rest xp on reasonably fast.

I think you completely misunderstand the OP. It's not at all about whether you're able to do things or not. It's about the challenge of doing things that are at or near your level. Personally, I like to do yellow/orange quests because they're so much more difficult to do. It'd be awesome to be able to experience all quests at that difficulty.

The other reason is for playing with another person. I have a char I play with my fiancee. I also play him occasionally without her. My char is 3 levels higher than hers. That's not too bad, but it'd be really nice if I could make sure we stayed the same level.

Oh, and the person who turned off xp would be the person who was in danger of going ahead, so then you would turn it back on when you go with the person you're leveling up with.

OK. I'm actually tired of grinding for xp, so much that I created a character that doesn't fight (ever) he doesn't even have a weapon nor has he bought any combat related skills as a burgler - currently he is level 17.

The XP gain in this game is a joke and seeming meant for people who want to race as fast as they can to the highest level possible, currently level 60 soon to be level 65.

I have to admit without the interaction of other people in this game (and not just to find a pug) this game is actually pretty boring, I'm either not high enough level for the area I'm in and get killed instantly or I'm too high for the level I'm in and it's not worth it to be there.

Just my opinion here take it or leave it.

Originally Posted by OranjeLament

You won't be satisfied either way. What happens when you get your /xpoff function and complete everything in SOA (which I did and was lvl 58 before stepping foot in Moria, but I digress...) and then turn on your XP and continue into Moria and follow the questlines? You'll end up less than halfway through the content at lvl 57 and realize you missed a 52-53 zone... you'll be at a loss, feeling frustrated and back here on these forums demanding a level reduction function... which IMO is on the verge of exploitation.

Slippery slope, my friend. Enjoy the game and as Gandalf said, "All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us."

Er, no. The OP would not come back and complain, and anyone who did would be justly flamed.

Again, this is already an option in World of Warcraft, where many players use it; some of us LotRO players would also like to have this option.

Originally Posted by ferdinanda

Er, no. The OP would not come back and complain, and anyone who did would be justly flamed.

Again, this is already an option in World of Warcraft, where many players use it; some of us LotRO players would also like to have this option.

I want a gun. WoW has guns. I bet lots of players would want guns.

Sounds dumb doesn't it?

Oh wait...it is lore-breaking to have guns right? Is it as lore-breaking as an adventurer who experiences certain situations but for some reason gains no experience from his/her experiences? Merry and Pippin were very different hobbits when they returned to the scoured Shire. How do you roleplay around this? Does your character get a bop on the head erasing their short term memory after completing CD? Are the characters so exceptionally stupid that they do not learn from their mistakes?

I would suggest that the people who argue that they want to eliminate xp gain on demand in order to experience content on-level should very carefully plan the content they choose to participate in. Aragorn wanted to experience the siege of Gondor on-level and chose to take the paths of the dead instead of grinding his Rohan and Gondor locations deed.

LOTRO was designed to provide several paths for xp advancement in SoA. You could probably level very well simply by doing deeds and a few quests in each region. A character can grind his/her way to 60 by killing mobs (mind-numbingly boring but whatever) and never doing most of the quests. They can level to 60 by never specifically trying to do deeds and questing only. This means that EVERY area will be outleveled before you can complete all the deeds and quests. Thats just how it is. It sucks for you if this is a problem for you but that is how it is. Therefore you should identify the content you want to do and plan carefully to do it while on-level. You may have to tell people no sometimes.

I haven't the slightest clue how hard or easy it would be to put this tech in place. If it is easy then by all means put it in so I never have to see another of these threads (although I guarantee that the results will not be satisfactory to some percentage of players). If it will take significant resources away from developing changes a larger % of people want then put it in the same timeline that the month of the kinship is on .

Originally Posted by bumbalin

OK. I'm actually tired of grinding for xp, so much that I created a character that doesn't fight (ever) he doesn't even have a weapon nor has he bought any combat related skills as a burgler - currently he is level 17.

There have been discussions on this in the past. That's pretty impressive! What's the hardest thing you've had to do so far?

Is burglar the best class for this because you need stealth to do some of the non-combat quests?

Can you make it to Undying? What are the things you are going to do next, or are you completely stuck now?

Now I'm looking forward to the next time we get another character slot...

EDIT: And I assume you're soloing, right? The trivial solution is to be an expert treasure hunter (or a minstrel I guess) and just tag along in a group soaking up XP.


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OranjeLament: We’re not asking for more so we can have an unfair advantage in the game, we’re asking for less so it’s harder (amongst other reasons that also do not give an advantage), thus, it’s not an exploit. (The term most would use is nerf—though those usually aren’t requested changes.) Yes, some may say they should be able to be level 1000 if they want to be (exploit), but that’s not what we’re asking for here. One relevant thing I want to mention: due to the xp adjustment, one of my characters was suddenly undying--the title that I was working so hard for now feels like a dirty secret. I almost rerolled the character, but since she's the founder of a kin, that would have been asking a lot of my kinmates just so I could feel I earned a title. To me, all the bonuses they keep adding is just a carrot for those who will follow it to the ends of Middle-Earth in their quest to be the highest level they can be.

Thane9, from your posts, it seems like you only see this game as a conquest. In your mind, as long as there is something to conquer, there is nothing wrong with the game.

Due to the growing number of people who are joining in to say that they see so much more to this game, there are definitely other views out there. I’ve even learned a few more reasons that controllable xp (at earned rank only status) would be even more beneficial to the LOTRO community at large.

If you ever want a nice long discussion about at least one person’s list of reasons why, I will be happy to oblige. I don’t know if it will help you understand or not, but the offer is sincere.

pdtohk You are not the first person who has complained that we’ll be splitting the devs’s time—meaning you won’t get something that you want. You claim that this change will take a significant amount of dev time away from other things you think they should be doing, yet others here have said it’s not a major change. I don’t know the base code for LOTRO, so I can’t say either way.

As far as how does that work for RP? One of the reasons that so many of us dropped the idea of actually being able to roll back XP (so you could be any level you’ve already earned before—and there are a lot more games than just WOW that allow this) is that we saw how that might be a huge code headache because of adjustments that would need to be made. That’s why slow/stop is where we are now, and we’re starting to dig in firm on this position. These quests are designed to be on a set timeline. If your character is “back” at the Old Forest after you’ve already been to Moria, you're in the game's set timeline. The backstory to support your level is based on your reason why you're there. Are you testing a theory? Are you trying to rp it now they way you wish you had then when you didn't have more experience rping or a better handle on the character? Are you reliving a moment with the same folk you experienced it with before? Are you doing something you wanted to do before, but didn't, like helping a lower level party, but not necessarily as the 60 or whatever you are now? Etc., etc. It’s not about forgetting—nobody has amnesia. (Well, someone might, but not for this reason.)

I’m willing to be that Sophronia brought up WOW because many people equate “max level or n00b” mentality to WOW. And if that’s the case, if it works for WOW, it could work here since we also have folks of that mindset, and both games have many other similarities. Your example of guns is pointedly unhelpful, and is a poor attempt to try to strengthen your position. Instead it only serves as a weak diversion. Your example of gaining experience through adventure, and then forgetting it was better, but still flawed. Part of why we need to slow/stop xp is all the bonus xp that keeps cropping up and pushing us past where we would be without it.

If you brought up Lore because you truly think this breaks lore, let’s do a true comparison while staying on the topic at hand. If bonuses were intended by J.R.R., then this is what we would see in the books:
Ettinmoors Freep bonus: When Merry and Pippin take down Isenguard with the Ents, everyone at the Battle of the Hornburg suddenly gains more experience than they should because of the bonus XP they got from the Isenguard victory.

Rest XP: While Frodo is recovering at Rivendell, or any other time when he is asleep, he earns quite a bit of bonus experience that he then is rewarded with for a commensurate amount of time afterwards when he furthers his adventures.

XP adjustment: Because J.R.R. realized that he was being so hard on the first to join in on the Council’s efforts, he decides to make it easier on the members of the Fellowship. One day they wake up to find that just by getting water for a Farmer who gives them food in return, they suddenly find themselves much more experienced for seemingly no reason at all.

Bonus XP weekend: Everyone who adventures/helps during Bilbo’s birthday will gain even more experience from his/her actions simply because it's Bilbo's birthday.

The only way we can freeze our level at this time is by not adventuring or stop playing altogether. (One could see things as a reverse catch-up to get rid of all that bonus we couldn’t opt-out of.) For me personally, there's only so much time I can spend lollygagging about in Taverns and crafting for the AH before I feel like I'm playing a niche version of SIMS, which is not my thing. The only way we currently cannot get whichever bonuses are foisted upon us at any given time is by not adventuring. I think we've made it clear that our preference is to stay with the game, but every time a bonus in particular is added yet again (and one can’t opt out), it just brings this issue back to light.

In all honesty, the mandatory bonuses became my last straw. There are many things I have come to accept as being “just the way things are in game.” (Having to level a character to an extent so they can craft at the highest tier, for example.) This issue has become one thing where where work arounds have thus far been unsatisfying. And folks are trying--there was even a plot hatched not long ago by those who would forgo at the very least bonuses to put together an unstoppable Creep team to prevent the Ettinmoor Freep bonus. Now that would affect other people, and might get some to understand how it feels to not get what they want for real, but if nothing else it would at least make the issue more poignant, though not necessarily more sympathetic. What we’re asking for, however, does not affect others in such a direct fashion.

We all know the laundry list that has been given to the devs, and we also understand how the devs are told to prioritize. Well, some folk are now talking with their wallets. Not the best method, because none of those folk (self included) want to stop playing, but if money is what matters, it may be the last resort for even more folk than it already has been.

As far as your point that "It sucks for you if this is a problem for you but that is how it is.", this is really your worst argument of all. Many things have changed in this game because people have asked for them. Some of those changes were not sought after by the majority if threads similar to this are to be believed. More and more of us are taking the time to come to the forums to argue our point of view because we don't want to be marginalized anymore.

There are other reasons to want the slow/stop other than the bonus, but the bonus is the most reflective of the points you so poorly brought up. The ones you argued well, I have not argued against.

to: NotYetMeasured

I do not want to high jack this thread for a pacfist topic so I started a new one.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=291594

The reason I mentioned this here is to show that there are different play styles and different reason people play LOTRO. The game has improved to much from the Beta days and that's because people make suggestions like XP Reducer.

In the end it will be what the developers can do or feel what is best for the game. My favorite example of this is Horsepants.

I think that people who want the game to not improve are the first people who complain when things get stale.

Originally Posted by Kaonashi76

Considering that Turbine did ask players several months ago about this option and that it's still not in the game, it's possible that their research indicated that not enough people wanted it to warrant them adding it in.

Turbine asked the question in July - after Book 8 came out.

There have been no updates since they asked the question, so no opportunities to add it to the game. Siege of Mirkwood presents the first opportunity for Turbine to act on the results of that research.

Thus, my question.

Will Siege of Mirkwood give players an option to stop or to slow XP?

My decision to buy the expansion actually hinges on the answer to this question. Yes = buy. No = will not buy.

Hmm. there's that "voting with our wallets" thing again. No, I'm not making this post to say that there shouldn't be an xp modifier system of some sort (after all what difference does it make what I think?). Yet, it should be noted that those who want to get to the cap in the time of their choosing, while doing whatever they desire - is kinda like wanting to be at the weight of their choosing, while eating as much as they want. Not wanting to level from playing the content, or wanting to level slower while playing the content is completely contrary to the premise of the MMO. No, power leveling is not the point of an MMO, but advancing your character is. Those that want to slow or stop their xp gain are asking something akin to wanting to not win money, or win less money when playing a card game. That's the reason why so many people "just don't get it".

The other reason people "don't get it" is due to the challenge argument. 99% of the so-called "challenge" in this game is knowing how to play your class and knowing the strategy of what you're doing. It won't matter much how many times you do an instance - it will never be as "challenging" as the first time you do it. Take that Training Hall instance for example. The first time through you might make the mistake of pulling a pat, which would aggro the mobs in the vicinity. Whether that be the orc that walks up and down the opening area, the 4 orcs that walk back and forth across the next area, or the orc that patrols behind the recruits. After you get the pattern down, and the pulls...everything else is cake - no matter what your level. True. You can't just rush in there at level and kill everything in two pulls, but does it matter? Even below level it's a cakewalk - provided you know the pulls, and know your class. In the end though - the only thing that changes is the amount of time it takes to complete the instance.

Again though - let me reiterate that I'm not going to picket Turbine, or /ragequit the game if this feature is implemented. Yet, I'm not crazy about the idea, nor fully understand the logic behind the reasons.

Actually, this is not what is typically understood as "voting with our wallets".

If I had not purchased Mines of Moria, I would have had the Level 50 cap that would have allowed me to play this content at level.

If I do not purchase Siege of Mirkwood, I will at least be able to experience Moria with a level cap of 60 rather than 65.

Not purchasing Mirkwood actually has more value . . . at least until I have finished the content in and around Moria and am ready to move on. As it turns out, not purchasing Mines of Moria would have had more value as well, but I made a mistake there.

Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia

Yet, it should be noted that those who want to get to the cap in the time of their choosing, while doing whatever they desire - is kinda like wanting to be at the weight of their choosing, while eating as much as they want.

I strongly suspect that if somebody can invent a way to allow people to eat as much of they want of what they like without gaining weight (and having no other adverse side effects), that person has the potential to be extremely wealthy.

However, on a broader subject, I think the argument that MMOs have an 'essence' and that violating this essence will somehow disrupt the natural order of the universe and release tonnes of 'ought-not-to-be-doneness' into the universe is flawed.

It's a game. It is meant for entertainment - to provide somebody with an opportunity to spend a few hours doing something that he or she enjoys.

It is also a business, which means that its point is to generate more income than outflow for those who are responsible for creating and offering LOTRO.

For me, entertainment means roleplaying an adventurer who must meet and overcome great challenges for a noble cause. Adventure requires risk. No adventure story I have ever read or watched has the main character walking through the chapters shooting and killing gray mobs and given powers far and away above what he needs to complete the challenges of the next chapter.

And if roleplaying an adventurer whose challenge is to overcome great odds for the sake of some noble good violates the essence of an MMO, then I really do not understand MMOs.

Yes, this involves advancement and change. But it DOES NOT require advancement that is so fast that the next and all future chapters in the story become a mindless cakewalk for the adventurer.

Though much of the challenge involves learning how to navigate the encounter, it will always be more challenging - more of an adventure - to learn how to navigate an encounter with a 45th level character than to navigate that same encounter with a 57th level character.

I think the simplest/easiest way they could implement this (which I would be open to, though I'm not sure how often I would use it) would be to add a button that you click to level (when you reach the next level).

There could even be an option in the option menu so you can toggle on/off whether you get prompted when you level.

If you do choose to get prompted, when you level you have a message saying you leveled and you must click some spot on the screen to continue leveling (say something starts glowing or something)...if you don't click that button/spot...you won't gain xp until you do...so you are effectively frozen at that level until you choose to move on.

I imagine that wouldn't be too hard to implement...and in a game like this where it is almost 100% cooperative...I don't really say how it would hurt those who wouldn't use it. It's not like WAR where you have to worry about people freezing at the end of a Tier just so they can dominant that Tier PVP.

As I understand it, the OP has a solution: to reduce or stop XP gain. The problem that it solves, if I understand correctly, is that he outlevels some of the content he wants to experience.

I enjoy the content a lot, and like to experience much of it also... less the fellowship quests and PvMP than the solo bits, but still more than one can fit into a single character. That's why I'm running multiple characters. Not everyone has to be "<x> of the Quick Post" or "<y>, Servant of Process", but I like to have *somebody* do those chains. I currently have 4 active characters: 1 at 60 and the others from 35-42, and I feel like I'm milking all I need to out of the content. If it turns out I miss something, then I can take the 7th slot (I have a craft-materials holding mule and an AH mule) and start yet another one. I occasionally start up a character on another server when I want the real newbie experience without being tempted to twink it with gold and crafted goodies, just because I want to revisit the Shire with fresh eyes.

Why isn't this an acceptable solution to the original problem?

I'm a Founder and Lifetime member, but not fanatical -- I've taken 6 months or so off a couple of times. I plan to buy all the expansions, assuming the price is right.

Originally Posted by Tiempko

that I will be able to enjoy the vast number of books and regions set up for Level 50 characters (when Level 50 was the cap) without levelling past them.

Look, the game is as difficult as you want to make it. For some of us, that level 50 stuff was trivial back when 50 was the cap, just like the Watcher is trivial for some people now.

Virtually all of that level 50 stuff was created with groups in mind. It's not difficult enough? Don't group. Solo or duo or trio or whatever.

That's not difficult enough? Then only equip level 50 stuff. Toss those legendaries, get rid of the level 48 crafted armour (which is now better than the Rift armour) and wear only level 50 quest armour.

Still too easy? Start pulling more mobs at once -- don't allow yourself down time, start Leroy Jenkins'ing it through a few rooms at once.

Still too easy? Take your virtues out. I get like -10% incoming melee damage with my virtues and I sure didn't have that at 50.

As a level 50, you can't solo all the tons of level 50 stuff. Sure, a LM soloed Fornost, but we're talking level 50 instances here, not a low 40 instance. So you're going to have to find some other people to go in with. Do you really have 6-24 other people who all want to disable xp? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Besides, getting to level 52-53 really won't matter all that much as long as you don't upgrade anything or buy new skills or get better potions. Remember, for some people, that level 50 stuff was trivial before MoM came out. Player skill and how well a group works together really make a difference. So, if you've done everything I suggested above and it's all still too easy, then you're the problem. You (or your group) are just too good.

Because the game is as difficult as you want to make it.

If I equip level 8 weapons, I only do like 20 points of damage -- I get perhaps 2-4 more points on average than a level 8 character. And if there's a level 8 guardian in the group, he usually pulls all the aggro.

I am going to add my 2 silvers worth, targeting those who don't understand or oppose this XP reducer proposal.

Turbine has been giving us xp bonuses. Why? Because people have been asking for more bonuses, many of us gleeful embraced this so we can level our alts faster. That is great of some of us (including myself) who are altoholic, some of the new people who can rush to level 60 so they don't miss out on stuff that is occurring at end game such as raiding (As people rarely do Helegrod), or Live World events such as Amarthiel Attacks in Book 13 (or was that 14?) whereby people missed out on joining in the fun because they were too low level.
Those are very valid arguments and we all welcome the xp bonuses, at no time we ever asked for it to be removed.

It is your choice if you want to use the bonuses (destiny points buy). It is your choice to level fast if you want to. It is your choice to pull several mobs for extra difficulties. It is your choice to do a quest that is orange or even red. It is your choice to skip Moria level 55 and head straight for Lothlorien for easy levelling. It is your choice to go back to Angmar at level 60 to do quests. It is your choice to solo Fornost at 60. It is your choice to attempt to solo Rift boss Barz on a Warden. It is your choice to stay in the Shire and never leave its boundaries. It is your choice not to kill any mobs and try level up using non-combat quests. It is your choice to have alts that are only used for crafting. It is your choice to only have one character. It is your choice to RP only. It is your choice to be a Hard-core Raider. It is your choice to level up only with your boy/girlfriend/siblings/family/friends. It is your choice to be a casual player and not raid at all. It is your choice to only wear crafted gear. it is your choice to do all deeds. It is your choice to run around with no armour only weapons (beserker style). It is your choice to hoard all the gold (Scrooge!). SO IT GOES.

You have so many choices of whatever playstyle you want in this game. Turbine have given us those liberties to choose whatever we want to do with our character. Turbine has adhered to the requests that giving us more experience bonuses so we can catch up with the end-game players and experience the contents.

Why... why can't you simply just understand that it is a choice we want when we say we would like to have an OPTION to reduce our experience gain from 0% to 100% the way we decide as much as we all have a choice to do whatever.

Why why can't you simply understand that we want to do all levels at "WHITE" colour, not red, not yellow, not blue, not green and certainly not at grey! After all it is MY, OUR choice whatever we want to do.

More importantly, You have the choice NOT to use the XP reducer, and we have the CHOICE to USE the xp reducer and everyone is happy.

You may not understand why we want to do quest at appropriate level. That is fine, just simply don't stand in the way trying to block something you don't even understand. Let us be free, you do you own way, I do my way.

Not everyone want to rush to 60. Not everyone want to skip fantastic contents of SoA (and soon MoM). Remember the days when Old Forest was bloody hard and aggressive? Good Old days. Remember the days when we all were running Annuminas at level 50. That was fun. Remember the days of raiding the Rift and Helegrod and sense of accomplishment when Thorog and Balrog fell to bunch of level 50s. Remember the pain and annoyance of grinding hard deeds or doing quests in Imblad Bacheloth and Himbar/Carn Dum. God I hate all those difficult times deeding such as Spirits of the Fallen in HI or level 50 instances. But now looking back I am rather fond of those and glad that I got to experience them at level 50.

We can never recapture that magic moments when you first came to LOTRO (as your first mmo); killing your first mob, doing the epic story quests on your first character. Downing bosses in Raids and 6-man instances for the first time. However sometimes we can feel some of that magic moments if you return on your alt and do it on appropriate level. That opportunity is getting harder and harder because you soon will outlevel it and lose the magic.

For the record, i have been using the bonus gain to level up my crafting alts fast to 60. I would roll a new character or two to experience lower level contents again at appropriate level with the xp reducer. Because that is what I want to do. I want to go into Weathertop with a fellowship of level 20s. I want to run the Rift, Annuminas and Helegrod with level 50s only and experience the victory and thrill of the "real difficulties". Not easy mode with level 60s escorting us and taking the brunt of the work. It isn't fun if a 50 Guard cannot tank because of a level 60 minstrel or hunter, might as well just go on auto follow and have coffee.

Allowing XP reducer would give the opportunity to new people, casual players, those who rolled an alt for this purpose, to do quests, zones, Epic Story questline from Book 6 to book 15 without outlevelling it or even level up. And therefore give them the only opportunity to share the experiences that us veterans had when we all were level 50 for Volume 1 book 7-15.

Give us the CHOICE AND FREEDOM to halt our experience gains/levelling.

Originally Posted by Tuco

I currently have 4 active characters: 1 at 60 and the others from 35-42, and I feel like I'm milking all I need to out of the content. If it turns out I miss something, then I can take the 7th slot (I have a craft-materials holding mule and an AH mule) and start yet another one. Why isn't this an acceptable solution to the original problem?

First, Books 1 through 15 (Part 1), as I understand it, comprise a single continuous story for 1 character. This story is not meant to be split up among multiple characters. I have 11 books ahead of me. I am quite certain that I can't get 1 character through the remaining 11 books without being significantly above level for the final books.

Second, I roleplay a character. Decisions are made from the point of view of a character interacting with the environment. It is not my goal to experience the bulk of the content. It is my goal to log in and play Bounder Chief Meadowlarke Sweetweed of Buckland.

Third, in addition to doing quests, there are deeds to do. A single slayer deed (e.g., "Kill 90 then 180 of Creature X"), executed when the creatures are above level and the fight is dangerous and interesting, generates tens of thousands of XP - with rest XP and bonus XP increasing that reward to 250% of the "base" XP award. You cannot split up deeds for multiple characters since a character that does not do the deed does not get the virtue. That is to say, whereas completing a deed might have generated 20,000 base XP, it generates 50,000 base, rest, and bonus XP.

Fourth, there is a significant balloon of quests at 50. It takes a lot of work getting characters up to Level 45 to pick up another batch of fresh Level 50 content. It is better to go through that content with a character that has already reached Level 45 and save all of that extra work.

Fifth, I like to be helpful. When kinsmen and even strangers ask for help in a region where I am adventuring, I love to volunteer and go with them. (Since I play a minstrel, other players appreciate this.) However, I have to refuse to help them because the XP I gain will force me past level for the content I wish to experience. It would be nice to turn off XP so I could volunteer more to help others.

Sixth, I play with my wife. Since she lost her job she has more time to play than I do. She would like to adventure without out-leveling me. I would like that as well. An XP reducer would allow that. Before this, I had more of a chance to play than she did. I would have loved to take my minstrel out to help others without outleveling her, but I could not do so without an XP reducer.

Seventh, my kinship, Bounders of the Shire, has members who would like to create an alt that is frozen at Level 10, who never leaves the Shire, but who patrol the shire for the purpose of helping out other low-level characters; new players in particular. An XP reducer would allow them to do this.

Originally Posted by Banaticus

Virtually all of that level 50 stuff was created with groups in mind. It's not difficult enough? Don't group. Solo or duo or trio or whatever.

That's not difficult enough? Then only equip level 50 stuff. Toss those legendaries, get rid of the level 48 crafted armour (which is now better than the Rift armour) and wear only level 50 quest armour.

Still too easy? Start pulling more mobs at once -- don't allow yourself down time, start Leroy Jenkins'ing it through a few rooms at once.

Still too easy? Take your virtues out. I get like -10% incoming melee damage with my virtues and I sure didn't have that at 50.

I like to roleplay a character. In fact, that is what attracts me to these types of games - the opportunity to roleplay a character. To the degree that I can do that, to that degree a game has value to me. LOTRO started off as a great game for roleplaying a character. It has become less so over time - mostly by making encounters easier (e.g., Old Forest), hyper-leveling characters with XP scale changes and granting bonus XP on top of bonus XP.

The type of character that I like to play is NOT the village idiot who strips down to his skivvies and charges into battle with a letter opener screaming at the top of his lungs to attract as many enemy as possible.

Again, think of an adventure story - a story like Lord of the Rings. When is the last time you read a chapter in which the Hero(es), looking at the task ahead, said, "Okay, this is too easy. So, let me throw away my best weapon, strip out of all of my armor, tie my left hand behind my back, and charge into battle making as much noise as I can try to eeek out a little bit of excitement from this battle."

I would hope that LOTRO would make it possible to roleplay a character on an adventure - one who, even though he takes as much advantage as he can of the weapons, armor, and other tools available to him, still has to THINK, "How am I going to survive this?"