Thread: Hero Deeds - A Radiance Gate Solution

Not Signed.

First, radiance is only needed for end-game raids, and as such - should require a group to achieve

Second: un-LotR or not, Radiance/Hope has been tied to gear since SoA.

Third: Electing to move Radiance to a trait because it doesn't make sense is ignoring the forest for the trees. It doesn't make sense for gear to give you a bonus to agility either, yet I hear no complaints regarding that.

That being said, I appreciate the work you put into this - but all it would result in is a way for people to somehow get equipped for end-game raids by soloing. Although I realize that getting everybody equipped with the current system was beyond cumbersome - I feel the best solution is to make the current method easier and less time consuming than completely scrapping it in favor of something both incredibly boring and completely detached from the playstyle that gear is for.

Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia

Not Signed.

First, radiance is only needed for end-game raids, and as such - should require a group to achieve

Second: un-LotR or not, Radiance/Hope has been tied to gear since SoA.

Third: Electing to move Radiance to a trait because it doesn't make sense is ignoring the forest for the trees. It doesn't make sense for gear to give you a bonus to agility either, yet I hear no complaints regarding that.

That being said, I appreciate the work you put into this - but all it would result in is a way for people to somehow get equipped for end-game raids by soloing. Although I realize that getting everybody equipped with the current system was beyond cumbersome - I feel the best solution is to make the current method easier and less time consuming than completely scrapping it in favor of something both incredibly boring and completely detached from the playstyle that gear is for.

Radiance/hope was never tied to gear in SoA (and still isn't today). Even though there was a lot less raid content in SoA, players were much happier than now. Why are there so many posts regarding changing the radiance system, or even removing it?

The "minority" of MMO players online is actually the "majority" here, and they don't like the current method. This solution would be more agreeable to them for many reasons.

Also, the concept of stat bonuses on gear (like Agility) is generally accepted because it is so widespread across MMO's. On the other hand, radiance is something very unusual and was an entirely unnecessary addition to the game for various reasons (the lack of it in SoA did not cause any problems, so why fix something which was not broken?). I could go on and on about this, but I'll spare everyone here for now.

Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia

Third: Electing to move Radiance to a trait because it doesn't make sense is ignoring the forest for the trees. It doesn't make sense for gear to give you a bonus to agility either, yet I hear no complaints regarding that.

But, at least, Agility can be achieved by other means, not Radiance... and we all know that Hope tokens don't do the job in the MoM end-game stuff. Just hope that it won't be necessary for SoM.

Originally Posted by RingOfFire

Radiance/hope was never tied to gear in SoA (and still isn't today). Even though there was a lot less raid content in SoA, players were much happier than now. Why are there so many posts regarding changing the radiance system, or even removing it?

The "minority" of MMO players online is actually the "majority" here, and they don't like the current method. This solution would be more agreeable to them for many reasons.

Also, the concept of stat bonuses on gear (like Agility) is generally accepted because it is so widespread across MMO's. On the other hand, radiance is something very unusual and was an entirely unnecessary addition to the game for various reasons (the lack of it in SoA did not cause any problems, so why fix something which was not broken?). I could go on and on about this, but I'll spare everyone here for now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Bounders hat exist before MoM, in addition to a few other items?

Originally Posted by HairyStef

But, at least, Agility can be achieved by other means, not Radiance... and we all know that Hope tokens don't do the job in the MoM end-game stuff. Just hope that it won't be necessary for SoM.

As for the rest...

Look, I'm not saying the current system is perfect - or for that matter even close to perfect. My main point however is that no matter how Radiance is delivered, or how you get it - it should be a group activity.

As long as Radiance is required for end-game raids, and only end-game raids - then it should require a group to get it.

Finally....seriously - we don't need any more deed grinds. Yeah, the current system requires instance grinding - but even that is more fun than deed grinding.

Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Bounders hat exist before MoM, in addition to a few other items?

Ah, I forgot about that cap (I thought you were talking about that as in regards to actual gating). Yes, it did give a hope bonus, but the hope on that was quickly changed to be overwritten by Edhelharn Token bonuses once it was discovered that they stacked. The cap is also different in that it gave an actual hope bonus...seeing as how hope and radiance are being separated in SoM, the cap should be changed to give a hope bonus instead of radiance as it does now (because hope was changed to radiance in Moria). I also think that the cap may be a little more realistic than radiance gear is (the description on the cap makes it appear to attach the hope bonus to your own deeds, unlike radiance gear).

I don't recall any other items which gave hope when equipped in SoA, so the cap is quite unique.

I'm sorry Digital_Utopia, but all that sounded like was a vote for L33tism.

The content should be a gate in itself (ie if you cant do it, then you cant do it) without anything further being put in front of it. As it is now, there are enough politics etc involved in the whole process to block solo players, familial groups and small kins from doing Raid content anyway, so why insist on more roadblocks for them? Not to mention that it makes future raiding even more inaccessible to any of the poor buggers that join up further down the track.

Bring back the "Rift Concept" - basically, you need an experienced group of skilled and organized players, with hope tokens, to challenge the Balrog and hope to win. That kind of content was a gate in itself - and more importanly a gate that NOBODY complained about - not casuals, not hard-cores.

Radiance is an unnecessary extra layer of grind - the kind that ends up with most ppl pugging a rad run or attempting a pug Watcher run. Does it build coordinated teamwork and experience with familiar fellows, kinnies, allies etc.?
Not really. Does it add an extra level of difficulty that highlights the advanced skills of a good raid leader and his/her excellent raid members? Nope.
Does is tie into the lore? nope.

If anyone can explain to me how it seperates skilled raiders from casuals (rather we all know that it only seperates ppl with more time to play from ppl with less time), because why else would those l33t raiders defend it? I don't think anyone would try to argue that time spent playing = leet skill.

I don't remember anyone complaining about keys, and numerous wipes to learn a cluster, or hope tokens etc. Where the hell did Radiance come from?

I think that to an extent this system should be implemented. I think that what should happen is that both the system should be kept as is as well as adding in the option to do deeds.

For the deeds you'd receive the same reward as you would for doing the instance: Tokens/Medallions that can be used to barter for radiance gear.

I can say for a fact that not EVERYONE wants to go through the whole thing where you have to learn an instance, find an experienced group, and then complete the instance. With the deeds alternative people can CHOOSE whether or not they WANT to go through that or not. People can even do a combination of the 2 systems, where the obtain some gear via instance grinding and obtain other gear via deeds.

The addition of deeds would also give further incentive to complete deeds, which I would say are very much unappreciated these days.

The concept im trying to show here is that 2 different paths can lead to the same goal.

/Agreed

I wouldnt mind deed grinding to get some rad gear...at least I know I would be getting some. Most players I know, arent playing anymore, my kin has shrunk to where its hard to even get a 6-man raid going.
Maybe I wouldnt need the rad gear but it would be nice to know I could get some..just in case.

Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia

Not Signed.

First, radiance is only needed for end-game raids, and as such - should require a group to achieve

So long as there's ample group-requiring content that doesn't require radiance. Or you'd have a hefty catch-22 there.


Anyway, in principle this idea is superb but I think linking the radiance to existing Traits or Deeds is a poor idea.

As it is there's randomness involved in getting drops for your character. This randomness is tied to some number Turbine picked for the average amount they want somebody to do certain things before they're ready for the next level of stuff.

So, why not award Deeds for X number of kills of bosses in 6 man instances. The traits from those Deeds would go into new trait slots as suggested and provide radiance.

I do think awarding a bunch of radiance for existing deeds, especially exploration and such, is a pretty poor idea. As was said all roads lead to Radiance only if you're going to raid. If somebody just explorers, crafts, and does some 3 or 6 man stuff their road does not lead to radiance gear.

Originally Posted by Torrenta

I do think awarding a bunch of radiance for existing deeds, especially exploration and such, is a pretty poor idea. As was said all roads lead to Radiance only if you're going to raid. If somebody just explorers, crafts, and does some 3 or 6 man stuff their road does not lead to radiance gear.

As Turbine intends it, doing 3 or 6 man stuff does lead to radiance gear. And often that road is farming the same instance over and over for medallions. Not very heroic. Would we not be served better by a deed system that encourages us to return to the less-trodden paths and doing actual acts of heroism? Dont think anyone suggested people getting radiance for exploring or crafting. And the argument that radiance gear only helps those who raid is a lost cause. The gear is superior to most out there still, and set bonuses can be very valuable.

Anyone else suprised to see Turbine put this deed system in the tell the developers poll a while back? Seems they have been listening to all of the ideas on the topic.

I like the idea of having hero achievements and i was thinking of some sort of new deed myself but you beat me too it. it is a great idea

pretty interesting ideas

seems overwhelming to implement though.

Originally Posted by aleczander

....
I don't remember anyone complaining about keys, and numerous wipes to learn a cluster, or hope tokens etc. Where the hell did Radiance come from?

Radiance was created as a response to people complaining about the length of the rift raid. The Moria radiance gating was a way to allow people to work through the 6 mini-bosses at their leisure before going on the the raid's main boss fight, the Watcher. It was a nice idea poorly executed.