ISSUE: The Radiance requirement for present raids, the difficulty (in coordinating and repeating) of the hard mode instances, and the decidedly un-LOTR-esque feeling of having Radiance tied to equipment (as opposed to a trait).
BACKGROUND: A few items need to be mentioned to give the background for the following suggestion.
Radiance, on its own, is not a bad mechanic. It is an original and novel idea that adds to the difficulty of an encounter without just increasing mob health. It also fits the feeling of LOTR quite well. Doom and gloom increase the closer we get to Mordor.
Radiance gear has had a negative impact on crafting. Whether people intend to raid or not, Radiance gear is the best gear in-game at the moment. This has effectively neutered the value of crafted gear. In addition, world drops and quested rewards do not compare to the Radiance gear. This has added to the cookie-cutter characterization we have at the moment.
The issue is not necessarily the difficulty of the encounters. DD is quite difficult, but it is doable. In comparison, GS is relatively simple. The issue is needing to run each instance multiple times, whether as a PUG or a kinship gearing members, with no other viable alternative - whether you wish to raid or not.
Radiance on GEAR is decidedly not in the spirit of Middle Earth.
Radiance gear, as implemented now, has eliminated much of the choice and freedom present in SOA. No matter how a player wishes to spend their time in MoM, all roads lead to the Radiance Gate. And THAT is the crux of the complaint.
SUGGESTION: Hero Deeds.
Hero Deeds could be implemented as a new panel on the Deed screen. This is a new category of deeds like the Class, Race, Social, Epic, and Regional deeds we have now.
Hero Deeds can (and should) be many of the same deeds already in the game. These should not require much additional development time in that regard. But, they are not just deeds ...
... they should be thought of more as Hero Achievements.
These deeds then should be a mix of events that players can achieve throughout the course of any and all styles of play. They can include:
Exploration Deeds.
Slayer Deeds; particularly slayer deeds of iconic allies of Sauron, namely wargs, orcs, and goblins.
Boss Kills.
Collection of "X" number of "Y" items; much like we have sets of gear, jewelery, and weapons now.
Renown Points.
Reputation with various factions.
Basically, almost anything can be given a second label as a Hero Deed. The accumulation of these deeds would then convert in a mathematical way to Radiance.
This Radiance would then be tied to the character and not the gear and would reflect the overall achievements the character has done in his service to the Free Peoples.
ADDED COMMENTARY: As many have requested, I will try and "update" this post with the pros and cons that come up.
I obviously cannot add in every single one, so I will try to add the ones that repeat. And, I must emphasize, I take everything as constructive criticism, so, if a comment is added as a con, no negative connotation is implied with regards to that poster's opinions and input.
So, with no further waiting ...
PROS:
Originally Posted by Mentioned by BobErtusMaximus
I think another good selling point to the Deeds Solution is that it can easily be added on to as the game progresses to Mordor.
Absolutely. I think this is a much more open-ended system that simply adding more Radiance on to the next tier of gear while adding in yet another set to facilitate the lowering of the dread in the previous raid. (As was done with the +15 Radiance gear for DN and the lowering of Dread in the Watcher with Book 8).
Originally Posted by Mentioned by BobErtusMaximus
Anything Turbine wants to include as Heroic can be, as long as its something we can do ONCE ...
I do want to emphasize here that I would expect some degree of grind. I do think that with the way time sinks work at this stage in MMO development it would be false to think you could get away with one-stop only content. That's my opinion, at least.
Originally Posted by Mentioned by BobErtusMaximus
No one said these need to be easy things to do ...
Absolutely! I have left the mechanical computation unsaid because I don't feel qualified to make that kind of suggestion. (I'm an idea man, Jim, not a mathematician!) But I would see that Turbine can easily weigh some of these achievements or deeds higher than others.
CONS:
Originally Posted by Mentioned by Mr.Damm
The inherent problem with a system such as this is how much reworking of the entire game it would require.
I don't think this would take that much work. The system has to be addressed - if we can assume from Orion's post that *something* is going to be done about it. So, if they are going to do *something* they might as well do it right, even if it is "hard."
Not saying that *this* idea is the right one; but I do think it is a good place to start.
Originally Posted by Mentioned by Mr.Damm
Balancing everything from the start of SoA to the end of Moria and deciding which things should give radiance and how much would be a nightmare.
As someone mentioned, SOA didn't have a lot of dread. And I think it would be easy to place a regional cap on max Radiance, too. So, for example, even if you 1 billion Radiance, if the cap in the Lone Lands is only 15; then your effective Radiance for the duration of your stay in the Lone Lands is 15.
Originally Posted by Mentioned by Mr.Damm
Turbine would have to place a cap on the system, and finding what an appropriate cap would be may be too much for them to do. If the cap is too low for a system such as this, then much of it would be wasted and most existing toons would have the cap. If it's too high, over-achievers like me would have insane amounts of radiance (though I should be rewarded for soloing 100 getheryg in Annuminas for the deed!)
Absolutely. There will have to be caps. Just like I mentioned above in the environment and also on the character. Perhaps just as Block, Parry, and Evade are capped now. That way if you exceed the present cap because you went gung-ho then you don't offbalance the present content and get a benny for when the cap is raised because you will be that much closer to the new cap.
I imagine this is just like what will happen when the max rank on Virtues is raised past 10.
Originally Posted by Mentioned by Mr.Damm
I think the easiest way Turbine could work radiance into the accomplishments of a character is make it part of the existing traits ... Tweaking the existing, balanced mechanics of traits would prove easier, more fruitful, and simpler to implement.
Could be easier. Like I said above, I'll leave anything past the idea to the professionals.
Originally Posted by mentioned by Avaril
Any alternative system should have some of the goals of gating in mind. This one does include the time sink mechanic, but in a horrible way. Time sinks generally are best when they involve current end game, this mechanic would add large incentives for people to run out leveled content in grind mode instead of current level content in that mode.
Which is why Turbine can easily weigh current end-game achievements to reward better than trivial ones will. They can weight to a degree that even if you did everything in SOA content you would still not have enough Radiance.
Again, I'll leave that mechanical math to the professionals.
Last edited by Witchdoctor; Jul 30 2009 at 02:33 PM.
It sounds good. Another option to consider is if serious raiders feel that special gear should be the reward, make that gear seperate from radiance and make it useable only in raids. This removes any balancing needed in the main world to counteract the effect of gear that is overpowering outside of the raid structure. This would go along with the PvE skills that are disabled in PvP in the Ettenmores keeping the balance issues seperate for the three distinct play areas.
I like the idea of having radiance based on deeds i never understood how a piece of armour could give us so much hope against evil creatures. Itd also make it so people who dont like to group much be able to obtain radiance through deed grinding instead of being forced to run instances.
When Hope tokens were first introduced, they were taken from Lore in regards to the Phial of Galadriel having a power to illuminate dark places inhabited by evil creatures. The radiance feature of gear however has no such precedent in the Trilogy that I can find (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). It is "un-lotr - esque" in every sense, and the repetitive questing needed to obtain it is not fun. Having Radiance on armour was an experiment in frustration in my opinion, and should be terminated for a radiance trait. I see no reason why hope shouldn't be added to weaponcrafting, but I know that even according to Lore there were just so many shards of Silmarils extant in Middle Earth, that including them in common weaponcrafting may not be acceptable....
The other aspect of this is the fact that in SoA epic gear was a rare world drop, and simply by farming mobs for traits or deeds you could pick one up. By that it wasn't entirely necessary to run with Helegrod Raids. MoM has no such aspect, and neither does it have comperable crafted gear. SoA was successful because it catered to both the casual and hard core gamers, and you could outfit yourself very well (going "all teal" we called it), without having to raid.
Last edited by Aldamiras; Jul 26 2009 at 05:19 PM.
Tachtas!!NIN the BA since Beta 1, Anastasiya Bowmistress since Alpha
The system will need to have many, many ways to achieve the "hero" status needed or radiance required for the gate. You mentioned a few, I'd like to add,
PvMP achievements like collect items, kill x number of MP's.
crafting turn ins, like the rep crafting.
Now the key here is, with the gate removed from our armour, we would be free to mix and match sets from all areas. There could be a full set of 3 man gear, an actual PvMP set, the 6 man set, a full turtle shell set (why not!!) and the king of sets the DN set. You would not needany number of these to do anything, you would be able to best customise yourself based on your playstyle and skill.
ie I like the PvMP pants, the 3 man gloves, the 6 man helm etc etc. The full sets would obviously have set bonuses to tempt you down one path. Notice I said tempt not force.
The third benefit I see is small kinships no longer feeling like they are wasting time. A run with a bad roll for gate gear is a wasted run. A run with a bad roll for nice to have gear is a fun time.
I truly hope the devs take it to heart and implement it. It solves many issues - especially for small kins and as was previously pointed out as a collateral benefit it makes PvP focused or different raid armor and other sets a viable option again.
@Witchdoctor - thanks for taking the time to write this up and post it.
This is an excellent idea IMHO. It would fit the lore better, as well as fit with reality (much more important in my opinion). Wouldn't you feel stronger and able to face greater challenges after accomplishing something heroic?
Just a note here, but the introduction of radiance/gloom has created a situation that can, with a little tweaking, give far more control over hope and dread. That could be accomplished by making radiance a character's "strength of will" against gloom (in other words, not generating hope at all but instead being used to negate gloom in an area).
On top of this, everything else that generates radiance (except armour sets) could be changed to directly modify a character's hope/dread value, as well as change boss dread auras to directly increase dread instead of generating gloom. Make radiance only able to negate gloom and not dread, and the result is a situation where Witchdoctor's suggestion could be used to full effect.
Pretty much any character would be able to face down an uruk like Igash, or even Gurvand for that matter. But only a battle-hardened veteran strengthened from many trials would be able to face the Watcher without being dragged into despair...or in other words, one who has completed many Hero Deeds and whose will has become far stronger than an ordinary hero's.
Honestly, I do hope this suggestion makes it into the game. It would greatly strengthen LOTRO's ties to the lore.
Oh, one more thing: if Hero Deeds do make it into the game, it would be a wise idea to attach a good number of them to deeds requiring a group to accomplish. That way people would have opportunities to learn how to play their class in a group before ending up in a raid.
One less Orc in the world is a good thing, and one less leader among the Orcs is a great thing.
Heroic Deeds would be a great way to diversify both the instances being run, and make those that are run more fun.
First point, they can make bosses in Annuminas, CD, Uru, and BG Heroic Deed targets thus getting more people to run those instances. Not only would more people get to see these instances, but groups of lv 48-50 could run together and already start breaking down the Radiance Gate they know will be coming. Kins would be able to be more inclusive of who they bring on quests and would get to know newer kinmates better. The same thing goes for Epic Story Quests, perhaps at the same places there is already a deed title the radiance can be tacked on.
Second point, the Heroic Deed would require you to defeat that boss once, not so many times that your eyes burn and your clicking finger feels as its going to fall off. The same once-slaying of the Moria instance bosses would apply, so players would be able to actually enjoy the content there instead of dread it. Return trips would be made for the extra loot drops and to get quests/deeds done for normal mode, so there is still a reason to go back in.
Developers would still be in complete control as to how the mechanism worked.. they can limit how many points of radiance are available in Angmar/Moria/Story Quests and such to spread the gate out to include any and all content they want.
Players can chose which goals to set to get either the minimum amount of Radiance to enter raids (of course the motivation is still there to finish all of the Heroic Deeds and make those raids even more reasonable).
I know a lot of people have different playstyles and some would not want to have to fellow at all to get the radiance they need to succeed with their content, so there can be a select few ways for solo play to gain radiance. They would not need much thrown their way since they don't encounter it much, so the structure would work fine for them too.
Main point is that radiance is no longer on the armor, and that makes any decent armor now valuable, and there can and probably is good armor for any playstyle if Radiance is removed.
Excellent fleshing out of the benefits of such a system. I hope Witchdoctor updates the OP with the additional data.
I think it would be nice is someone could try to articulate the drawbacks of such a system - if any vs the current one. Personally I dont see any but it may be because I'm heavily biased towards the current solution.
BTW: I think "Heroics" would be a nice name for the deed tab.
On a side note, I love the fact the system would remove all "trash" bosses from the game since they would have a heroic achievement value.
Think of all the content that could be made relevant again by offering a Heroic +1(or more) Radiance reward here and there.
So what about long time aservers as Kin Occifer or Leader or 1st reserve?
Would that gain you +0.1 Hero pts per month?
What about supporting groups of lower level to get thru the quests they have without full groups? Today I offered to help anyone with a quest at Ost G. 27 lvl said, "Yeah, me, Red Pass". I can't remnember back all that far, so I simply said, "Sure" at lvl 54 GRD.
We got a 31 Chump and we failed 1st time, planned second one better and got straight thru.
Should I get a Hero Point and increase my radiance for helping chars when I am +20 lvls and can't get XP, altho can complete deeds if we are killing something I have deed open on.
What do you think?
What definition of a Hero or Heroine, those evil dope pushers, should we run with? Post your Hero Def!
GRD lvl 50, HNT lvl 46, LRM lvl 32, MNS lvl 25, BRG lvl 23
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The secrecy of what we do is such that we're not allowed to know what it is we are doing!
This is an excellent idea. Those who still want the best gear in the game or prefer the raiding part of the game really lose nothing by this, they can continue working or being the best their class can and others are not limited to experience content by always needing a group to run with. This would put a greater importance on deeds (which from a lore perspective makes more sense) and run the endgame more similarly to the Rift (with many more options). Double signed!
Excellent ideas...too bad it falls on deaf ears. Believe me there is no way they will do this. Part of the hamster wheel is the jewelry drops in the dungeons. Radiance alone is not gonna cut it for the watcher lol. One needs to be equipped you cant take the watcher on with a tank that has 5000 moral and a minstrel with 3000 power. All the radiance is gonna do is remove the dread. That "is" the easy part. Getting that anvil in HoC or the Plaqau in FG to drop and winning the roll is the other part. Running 6.8 20 plus times to get the cloak of flame and shadow is part of the hamster wheel. So why remove radiance armour if you still need to go back in for the other drops; the Insideous cuff, or the diamond stud. It takes more the radiance and deeds to be successful in the big raids.
As some one whose main has 8/6 tier 1 rad and working on my DN set, I love this idea. I miss being able to try different armour builds for the big instances. Right now you have next to no choices in gear if you raid.
"...damn you burglars with your endless bag of tricks and utility belts." -Orion
I'm such a person and I envisioned the proposed system to reward such people inherently as well as explicitly. If one is a "hero" of a region doing all the deed for that area thier fame alone would make them a hero to the local population and should properly recognized by the devs.
Last edited by .Spartan; Jul 27 2009 at 11:53 PM.
Reason: typo
So what about long time aservers as Kin Occifer or Leader or 1st reserve?
Would that gain you +0.1 Hero pts per month?
What about supporting groups of lower level to get thru the quests they have without full groups? Today I offered to help anyone with a quest at Ost G. 27 lvl said, "Yeah, me, Red Pass". I can't remnember back all that far, so I simply said, "Sure" at lvl 54 GRD.
We got a 31 Chump and we failed 1st time, planned second one better and got straight thru.
Should I get a Hero Point and increase my radiance for helping chars when I am +20 lvls and can't get XP, altho can complete deeds if we are killing something I have deed open on.
What do you think?
What definition of a Hero or Heroine, those evil dope pushers, should we run with? Post your Hero Def!
First, I applaud you for helping shepherd those in the Lone Lands. I wouldn't say that helping people accomplish their goals would give heroic radiance, for you cant (and shouldnt) force people to be philanthropic. What they can do is expand the rewards for Marks to include item XP runes and relics which would reward you for your service to the Free Peoples of M-E.
This is the sort of behavior we should support, not the repetitive instance running going on in Moria!
As far as the thought that removing radiance wouldnt help since there are still important pieces of jewelry/pocket items/cloaks/shields in the instances, do you really think those are required? Would those who only raid casually feel incomplete without them? I think not. They are nice to have, but dont really impede progress or make other items obsolete.
Personally I think stretching the Radiance out to so many paths is a bit much. I do think it shouldn't be tied to the armour, but most of the things you've listed have rewards already attached to them. For me the thing I think would be best (and maybe even the easiest to implement) is that your character earns Radiance equal to the amount of Dread they've overcome through an encounter.
For example, if a Boss gives 5 Dread, after you've defeated it once you'll have 5 Radiance added to your pool. There would still be the 10:1 Radiance:Hope kind of conversion we have now and they could cap it at a certain point (so that things don't become obscenely exponential) but I think that would be flexible enough.
It would also encourage players to redo older content they may have passed by before.
Personally I think stretching the Radiance out to so many paths is a bit much. I do think it shouldn't be tied to the armour, but most of the things you've listed have rewards already attached to them.
Yes, the bosses and such do have their own rewards, but the deeds could be structured to include 3-4 challenges for 1 reward of radiance, so it would be granted after proving your heroism over time and not just once. This would also help the developers cap how much radiance they want active in any given region or level range to keep the gameplay healthy.
One reason I really hope this happens is that it will expand the role all regions have in the game. The environment is in my opinion the most vibrant aspect to LOTRO. Sure, we also have a great story that Tolkein wrote, and we are interacting to varying degrees with that (More, please!). But in the places Turbine has recreated, we are interacting with his world every time we sign in. If we, and especially new players, are encouraged to do great deeds in all parts of Middle-Earth that experience will be much greater. Funneling us towards Moria to repeat the same instances in hopes of someday repeating raids is not the spirit of Middle-Earth. Please Turbine, lead us back into the various places in the wonderful countryside that make this game great.
Yes, the bosses and such do have their own rewards, but the deeds could be structured to include 3-4 challenges for 1 reward of radiance, so it would be granted after proving your heroism over time and not just once. This would also help the developers cap how much radiance they want active in any given region or level range to keep the gameplay healthy.
One reason I really hope this happens is that it will expand the role all regions have in the game. The environment is in my opinion the most vibrant aspect to LOTRO. Sure, we also have a great story that Tolkein wrote, and we are interacting to varying degrees with that (More, please!). But in the places Turbine has recreated, we are interacting with his world every time we sign in. If we, and especially new players, are encouraged to do great deeds in all parts of Middle-Earth that experience will be much greater. Funneling us towards Moria to repeat the same instances in hopes of someday repeating raids is not the spirit of Middle-Earth. Please Turbine, lead us back into the various places in the wonderful countryside that make this game great.
I agree with the notion of the expanded roles of the regions and fostering more control over area progression for the devs is a good thing methinks.
Something that occurred to me just now is what a great quest line for individual races. In a way rep for each of the races, but only for your race. While the most recent zones it would be hard to give quests for Man/Hobbits, but I'm sure something could be worked out that would involve lore appropriate questing. But, thinking on it now, it would be a great way to interact with the Fellowship. Perhaps someway to involve the bounty system. Or the trophy drops that many of the bosses drop. Just some quick thoughts.
Something that occurred to me just now is what a great quest line for individual races. In a way rep for each of the races, but only for your race. While the most recent zones it would be hard to give quests for Man/Hobbits, but I'm sure something could be worked out that would involve lore appropriate questing. But, thinking on it now, it would be a great way to interact with the Fellowship. Perhaps someway to involve the bounty system. Or the trophy drops that many of the bosses drop. Just some quick thoughts.
Good point there. I had always wondered why as an elf no one takes notice of me in Rivendell, or even lets me into Lothlorien despite already sharing heritage with them. Least they can do is welcome me and invite me to dinner And a quest or two unique to my race would be great. Maybe that quest-line would begin in the first Elf/Dwarf/Man/Hobbit area you find and continue through each zone.
See my other posts about the reasons why gating is useful to a game. Any alternative system should have some of the goals of gating in mind. This one does include the time sink mechanic, but in a horrible way. Time sinks generally are best when they involve current end game, this mechanic would add large incentives for people to run out leveled content in grind mode instead of current level content in that mode. This is an important distinction, because doing something over and over again that poses no risk to you is much more boring then grinding something that is at least a small challenge. It also does not in any way shape or form allow the developers to know that players entering their gated content were competent enough/geared enough to do the next hardest content.
It does encourage people to experience more of the content in the game, but again only in the most trivial and unflattering way as incentives will still be to run those grinds far above level.
It also does not in any way shape or form allow the developers to know that players entering their gated content were competent enough/geared enough to do the next hardest content.
And the rift/helegrod did this? People will adapt just like they have with the 3mans. Recall all the crying when they came out because they couldn't do it, they figured it out eventually even if they were given a guide. That is no different then all of the current raids and hard modes, things had to be figured out and once they were/are the word spreads on how to tackle the instances. The content should be hard enough by itself not to require endless grinding of certain instances for cookie cutter gear.
As for this method of radiance gain not having the same goal a gear gating, it would and could easily been done. Power leveling through to 60 and going back to do deeds is done now, so that is no different then the end result of what we are asking for now. But, not everyone power-levels through and some will do the deeds/quests/whatever on level or at least near it. But, if you wanted to make it the challenge that you are asking for, after completing the deed, have it open up the quest that actually challenges you and the reward would be a virtue/trait. And since those really will effect instances 50 and up have them be at least level 50 quests with a wide range of mob levels depending on the quest group sizing.
See my other posts about the reasons why gating is useful to a game. Any alternative system should have some of the goals of gating in mind. This one does include the time sink mechanic, but in a horrible way. Time sinks generally are best when they involve current end game, this mechanic would add large incentives for people to run out leveled content in grind mode instead of current level content in that mode. This is an important distinction, because doing something over and over again that poses no risk to you is much more boring then grinding something that is at least a small challenge. It also does not in any way shape or form allow the developers to know that players entering their gated content were competent enough/geared enough to do the next hardest content.
It does encourage people to experience more of the content in the game, but again only in the most trivial and unflattering way as incentives will still be to run those grinds far above level.
Look, I dont think you quite get the result of this Heroic Deed system.
First, the Moria instance bosses would be included in it, so you will still have to surmount that training hurdle to get you into the final raids, just not multiple times. The lessons learned in all the Moria instances would still have been learned.
Second, it will encourage players to experience more content that is now overlooked, and to encourage them to do it AT LEVEL. Once they are at a reasonable level to take on Annuminas or BG or anything else with a Heroic Deed related to it, they will now actually try to find a group for it, and since others will have the same motivation, groups will form up. And sure, some lv60s would now have those deeds active and probably go experience those for the first time (or at least the first time using that class). Yes, there would be many at first running through the whole thing easily with lv60 characters, but with time this would be less common and those joining the game would get to experience more of Middle-Earth before hitting the End Game wall. This is good for both Turbine and players.
Lastly, this would feel like much less of a time-sink, as you are completing DIVERSE challenges throughout the game and not having to go and do the same things over until the coin you need drops. For alts, it would still feel a bit repetitive, but hardly in the same vein as the current Gate, and about as much as doing anything on an alt feels repetitive.
If you still think this is a horrible time-sink than I guess I cant sway your opinion, but I think many would find this much more fun, and more in line with the spirit of Tolkein's stories and world.
@Witchdoctor - I hope you update the OP with the additional thoughts about the inherent benefits for the system.
Also It appears that Turbine is locking at the threads on the topic in general discussion forum except a new one to get everyone with an opinion on the matter in one place reading one thread. So all the extra clarification points in the original thread should also be added to this one before that thread drops into oblivion.
Lastly, this would feel like much less of a time-sink, as you are completing DIVERSE challenges throughout the game and not having to go and do the same things over until the coin you need drops. For alts, it would still feel a bit repetitive, but hardly in the same vein as the current Gate, and about as much as doing anything on an alt feels repetitive.
If you still think this is a horrible time-sink than I guess I cant sway your opinion, but I think many would find this much more fun, and more in line with the spirit of Tolkein's stories and world.
I totally agree. More diversity is exactly what I am after.
"O Elvenking! … Merry be the Greenwood, while the world is yet young and merry be all your folk!"
I believe if the Devs take a look at the wide variety of players "signing" this thread(s) then they'll have to acknowledge that there in fact is a "problem" with the current radiance gear (the concept vs. lore and the negative effect against the vast majority of the player base).
Most threads are tedious to read through (I empathize with Sapience and the others), but I see some really good ideas in this particular thread.
I hope this discussion can influence a positive change.
/not signed
Any alternative system should have some of the goals of gating in mind. This one does include the time sink mechanic, but in a horrible way. Time sinks generally are best when they involve current end game, this mechanic would add large incentives for people to run out leveled content in grind mode instead of current level content in that mode.
It does encourage people to experience more of the content in the game, but again only in the most trivial and unflattering way as incentives will still be to run those grinds far above level.
We'll its all about design, the reward scales up with level. Unlike +1 Valour being equal reward from killing lvl 30 mobs as lvl60 mobs, the early deeds/quests/boss kills could add 50 hero points, the later accomplisments could be +200!
If it's us not re-running the instances you're concerned about, the coin system could stay in for the gear drop, it just wouldn't be a manditory to win it. I think without the grindy rush rush rush win my coin feel to the instance, you'll find a lot of people heading in there for fun
We'll its all about design, the reward scales up with level. Unlike +1 Valour being equal reward from killing lvl 30 mobs as lvl60 mobs, the early deeds/quests/boss kills could add 50 hero points, the later accomplisments could be +200!
If it's us not re-running the instances you're concerned about, the coin system could stay in for the gear drop, it just wouldn't be a manditory to win it. I think without the grindy rush rush rush win my coin feel to the instance, you'll find a lot of people heading in there for fun
I think another good selling point to the Deeds Solution is that it can easily be added on to as the game progresses to Mordor. If future content will have more dread and gloom (and how could Mordor not?), future heroic acts will be installed as deeds that can continue to give us Radiance to combat Sauron's evil plotting.
Anything Turbine wants to include as Heroic can be, as long as its something we can do ONCE on each character we have and therefore all return trips to instances and zones are because we:
- Enjoyed the instance and want to experience it again
- Would like to get some rare drop in said instance
- Are helping a friend/kinmate/alt/stranger become heroic in their own right
- Are bored and it seems like something to do (I would think this rare since we are now free to choose whatever content suits us most to pursue)
No one said these need to be easy things to do.. and wouldnt people choose to do these while at the quest level (or earlier if they are brave) if there was a small but known benefit towards future gating of content?
And the more we endorse taking on Heroic challenges, the less lv60s we get in Moria who havent tried challenging content and become a "Burden" to those trying to farm instances and get into their raids.
I think another good selling point to the Deeds Solution is that it can easily be added on to as the game progresses to Mordor. If future content will have more dread and gloom (and how could Mordor not?), future heroic acts will be installed as deeds that can continue to give us Radiance to combat Sauron's evil plotting.
Anything Turbine wants to include as Heroic can be, as long as its something we can do ONCE on each character we have and therefore all return trips to instances and zones are because we:
- Enjoyed the instance and want to experience it again
- Would like to get some rare drop in said instance
- Are helping a friend/kinmate/alt/stranger become heroic in their own right
- Are bored and it seems like something to do (I would think this rare since we are now free to choose whatever content suits us most to pursue)
No one said these need to be easy things to do.. and wouldnt people choose to do these while at the quest level (or earlier if they are brave) if there was a small but known benefit towards future gating of content?
And the more we endorse taking on Heroic challenges, the less lv60s we get in Moria who havent tried challenging content and become a "Burden" to those trying to farm instances and get into their raids.
You brought up a point at the end of your post which I think is very important. Hero Deeds would encourage endgame-minded players to work their way through earlier content. This system would reward those who take the time to experience all that LOTRO has to offer, while leaving those who rush through to 60 with the tedious task of having to go back and complete Hero Deeds. This in itself would make it easier to find groups for previous content, as there would be more people of all levels in lower-level zones.
Also, we will be faced with tougher challenges and more terrifying foes as we get closer to Mordor and the War of the Ring, and we would naturally grow stronger as we continue. As long as we leave the actual gating from these deeds to raids (perhaps a few benefits in other content that uses gloom in some cases. I posted about this earlier in this thread), radiance would simply become a way of showing how strong your character has grown, and that is what it should have been in the first place, IMHO.
One less Orc in the world is a good thing, and one less leader among the Orcs is a great thing.
I have been hoping to drop onto the definition of this gate business.
I have not dropped onto such a definition so best I ask you people who clearly seem to know all about it?
What does GATE mean in this context?
Are we talking StarGATE or the white picket fence variety?
I have not stumbled across any odd looking gates, nor any radiance past the glow of the perpetual atomic reaction on what we refer to as the "sun".
Since I always struggle even getting PUGs I believe that me happening across 23 people standing there one day saying, "Oh goodie, a 24th, ain't weez lucky!" to be extraordinarily remote in its greatest extreme.
So finding out what Gate, Dread, Dead, Radiance, Gloom and other fine words of four letters or more would appear to be wise so as I could possibly determine if I should go about asking people if they are the 23rd person, or NOT!
GRD lvl 50, HNT lvl 46, LRM lvl 32, MNS lvl 25, BRG lvl 23
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The secrecy of what we do is such that we're not allowed to know what it is we are doing!
Honestly i don't really care much about radiance gating. What irks me the most is the cookie cutter builds that we see everywhere. Theres just no choice, you either use Radiance Gear or you are gimping yourself.
Its not like the good old days of SoA where you could mix some Burnished, Mirrored Knights, world drops like Berghelm and Rift armour together and still be exceptionally well geared.
Please untie Radiance from gear and bind it to the Character!
Razor // Lusitanius // Crickhollow ~ Portuguese Kinship // Player Council Member
Galahriel | Galchir | Razorock | Razortip Staff Strike! - A Lore-Master class guide and blog (on hiatus).
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Re: Hero Deeds - A Radiance Gate Solution
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GRD lvl 50, HNT lvl 46, LRM lvl 32, MNS lvl 25, BRG lvl 23
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And a quest or two unique to my race would be great. Maybe that quest-line would begin in the first Elf/Dwarf/Man/Hobbit area you find and continue through each zone.
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Re: Hero Deeds - A Radiance Gate Solution
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