I won't play my creep when -any- multiboxer is online. I've already seen it twice and I immediately logged my creep off and went to freepside or did some PvE.
I get the impression turbine can't do anything about it since it's 6 seperate accounts? Kind of weak if you ask me...
the difference between the 6 boxer and a group of 6 people is that the 6 boxer can fire off 6 attacks of the same skill at the same instance on the same target. Where in a group the leader gives the command to fire on a target the rest of the group then have to find the target then they choose which skill to use to attack (The Human factor).
That's grouping/raiding 101, when you are focus firing you have your target assist selected, not tabbing through targets when called out. If you aren't doing that for intended focus fire then you are missing an important step.
I would so love to excommunicate the multiboxers to a third faction.... so both sides can have equal opportunity to drop them and get reknown/infamy from them.
Until that happens....
How bout we start an e-mail campaign to email:
If this behavior is not a violation then it should be. Any one player who can have that much of an unfair advantage in the Moors will do nothing but drive more players away from the game. What ever monetary gain Turbine might receive from allowing this behavior will inevitably lead to a net loss as most players will simply leave rather than put up with this unsportsman-like yet implictly-sanctioned behavior.
That's grouping/raiding 101, when you are focus firing you have your target assist selected, not tabbing through targets when called out. If you aren't doing that for intended focus fire then you are missing an important step.
That's assuming you're in a raid/group. However, in general on creep side people are not grouped up - hence the trade channel target spam.
That spam alone should be a clear indication - people aren't grouped and it takes time (if only a few seconds) to get on the same target.
Personally, I'm taking a break from PvMP. The six boxer thing is just idiotic and turbine is even more stupid for allowing it. I've been attacked by other creeps via creep OOC, creep vent and the BAOS forums for my dislike of ol' failboxer (he acts like he doesn't care, but the little pretty flower put me on ignore in-game. He's a big ol' baby) which illustrates that the community here has devolved to the point where they'll excuse anything so long as it's on "their side."
Nod, PVMP has gotten awful in the past few months.
Originally Posted by Resonance
Mail sent...
If this behavior is not a violation then it should be. Any one player who can have that much of an unfair advantage in the Moors will do nothing but drive more players away from the game. What ever monetary gain Turbine might receive from allowing this behavior will inevitably lead to a net loss as most players will simply leave rather than put up with this unsportsman-like yet implictly-sanctioned behavior.
Nothing more I can do and nothing more to say on the topic.
QFT
Originally Posted by oneuniverseonepeople
That's grouping/raiding 101, when you are focus firing you have your target assist selected, not tabbing through targets when called out. If you aren't doing that for intended focus fire then you are missing an important step.
6 things doing something simultaneously is more than you could ever hope for in a group of 6 individuals.
Six characters run by one person, six characters run by 6 different people, same thing.
Not exactly.... While I have not done multiboxing, I've worked enough with KVMs and the like to understand the control theory behind it.
What the multiboxer does, and why they're so effective, is the ability to take a single class, and multiply it by 6. He's really good when everything's close together (which makes him ridiculously vulnerable to AOE), and he hits stinking hard (think: single BA/spider that does 6x the damage a normal one would do).
However, one downside to the multiboxer.... if you can get him to spread out enough, he stops being effective, because the control input coming in may not be appropriate for the entire group then, thus rendering a few of them rather pointless. This is where CC classes can really have fun with this idiot.
And heck, if people actually LEAVE STAB/EC to go elsewhere.... then that makes it harder, cause if we're fighting a moving fight (which the Freeps can do), then he's at a further disadvantage, because getting them all mapped at the same time will take 6x longer to map - or a heck of a resource farming system.
I'll agree that the presence of a dead multiboxer is really.... not much fun, especially for a WL who's trying to help his mates (and rezes that idiot on accident instead of his mates), there are ways to work around this problem until he gets bored and does something else.
Oh wait, he's got no life and a ton of money.... so he might be sticking around for a while.
So, to summarize, until Turbine says "no" to this non-sense, about all we can do is exploit some of the weaknesses until this annoyances goes away. 'Cause we all know that one person controlling 6 freeps/creeps is stupider than 6 people acting independently.
I would certainly support a move to ban multi-boxing from the moors. There are other things I'd like to see changed about the moors as well, but none of it gets me as exercised as this topic seems to get the posters in this forum.
I've only started putting any real time in on my creeps just recently, and to my disappointment I find that it is in the middle of a griefstorm over some other person's behaviour.
I would consider it defamatory if anyone were to assert that I ever provided any support to the 6-boxers or coordinated with them. However, the broad net thrown out in this thread seems to cover practically everyone who dares creep when 6-boxers are on.
I would note as well that I get ganked just as hard when I am nowhere near the 6-boxers as when they are in my vicinity. So if you want assert that you are on some honourable crusade against them and not a raging vendetta against everyone who has the temerity to creep on Elendilmir at this time, then see to your own honour first.
Some seem to be asserting that we are not allowed to creep when the 6-boxer is on. Bollocks to you if that's the message. I paid for my account. Nowhere in the ToS is anything about my needing some other player's permission to play.
That's grouping/raiding 101, when you are focus firing you have your target assist selected, not tabbing through targets when called out. If you aren't doing that for intended focus fire then you are missing an important step.
That right there is why I'm not playing in the Moors so long as this knob is out there.
I've played my weaver for a long time and I've stuck with it because whilst I might suck at 1v1, I really enjoy the role that a weaver can play in a group situation.
I do NOT just select the ranged target assist and mindlessly fire off my shortest cooldown highest damage attack over and over. If I wanted that garbage then I'd go down to the local pub and pour my money into the pokies. I will do this when the leader demands it to quickly take out a strategic target, but most of the time I am tabbing through the freeps so that I can selectivley daze, root, debuff, slow and power drain as appropriate. A ranked weaver (IMHO) is far more usefull to a group in this role than they are just following a target assist and DPS'ing.
Maybe this comes from the fact that I've played a weaver through all of the dark days when we had no DPS, but the fact that you play your boxed weavers like a pure DPS class shows that you are not using them as Turbine originally intended, rather you are playing them to exploit the DPS increase granted to us in the last book.
I just want make it very clear that he did NOT have the FULL support of the Creeps. I offered NO support in any way, shape or form, and tried my hardest to ignore his existence entirely.
I have TRIED staying back when he suddenly appears (assuming I even notice him!) yet still get attacked.
I have TRIED going elsewhere but it's a small map and the battles often come together in one place - paths can't help but cross.
I have TRIED pretending he doesn't exist but lately that seems to be all that anyone talks about. And apparently if someone is seen in the same general vicinity they are considered to be supporting them. How can I pretend he doesn't exist when his mere presence causes so much negative emotion in so many people? His actions, and people's reactions, affect me no matter how much I wish they didn't.
Now when I see the six boxer out, and all I want to do is log off. Not because I approve or disapprove of his actions, but simply because of the drama, the hostility, and the negativity his presence causes. Normally I just try to remain as uninvolved as I can in drama as it is NOT conducive to having fun, yet his mere presence is the same area as me involves me whether I want it to or not. Why? Because so many people have forgotten what it actually means to have FUN in the Moors. Well you know what? It ISN'T fun when people are upset. It ISN'T fun when people are openly hostile to others because they have opposing opinions. The E-Moors is going to Hell, and it is dragging me down kicking and screaming with it, even though I have been desperately fighting tooth and nail against the overwhelming wave of negativity that has befallen our once wonderful community. Yet with each day that passes, it seems that I am fighting a losing battle.
I logged in tonight to have some fun. I was excited to be playing as I haven't had much game time the past few days. Instead I am now parked in TA, more stressed than when I logged on, wishing that things were like how they were. What a stupid, naive, and foolish dream. And with this post I have now succumbed to partaking in the drama, and the negativity. The dream is dead. Welcome to the nightmare.
See you all in the Pits of Hell once known as the E-Moors.
Oh Nopain.........*Hugs*
I understand where you're coming from. And I am soooo sorry that someone as wonderful and kindhearted as you has been hurt by all this drama.
sigh this has to be a very sad day when painy gets upset at this game she is the nicest person ever to be on this server and it upsets me aswell to see her upset .
how this person can post in these threads talking like he is gods gift to gaming is very disheartening and it is wrecking very good and social community.
i for one would like turbine to do something about this lamer for single handed wrecking the community that took a long time to get where it is,but this thing has no concern with what he is doing to the server that was once one of best pvmp servers out there,i suppose that is why he has moved here becuase he f%^&ed up his other servers so bad that there was no pvmp to be had.
but alas the devs think this is fair play so i guess we just have to put up with it and get on with the game.
problem with it i see is that when you have a 12 on 12 fight and then this lamer logs on it goes from 12 v12 to 12 v 24 in a heart beat with only 2 more players being brought into the fray ,that to me is so unjust that it is time to log out or move along .
and to the creeps that run next to him with him out there it is gonna get even harder for anyone to get there ranks as he is tab targetting ever target you are so you will be getting your 5 inf or so and he will be getting his 10 inf or so ,i suggest that when he is on try and get everyone that isnt running with him and move the fight to a better/harder place for him to get to,this will show the freeps that you are not following this lamer and will hopefully not get you ganked just for being in the vacinity of it.
to the freeps please make sure you look at who you are blowing up for nothing if they are standing around where this boxer is just dont even hit any of the creeps that are there,make sure you check to see who is targetting him for heals,target forwarding and such and please do not put all creeps that are there in the same catagory as him for they may just be standing back looking at what a lamer this guy truly is.
to nopain i am very sorry for anything that has upset you i really miss the old days when we had our balls to the wall fighting and could always count on your heals, no one should ever lump any of the old school creeps in the same boat as this lamer so please stop the **** over everyone getting lumped into the same catagory.
sorry again to any creeps that got lumped into that catagory.
END OF RANT THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
hug and more hugs for painy
'If your not dying, your not in the fight.'
Dagardemon R5 Captain - Orindemon R4 Guardian - Littledemon R1 Burglar - Sentei R5 Warg - Speedygonzales R5 Reaver
To throw in my 2 copper pieces, very shiny copper pieces as they may be...
Coming from Everquest, I've seen multiboxing gone out of control. When I left that game sometime around the release of there... probably Serpent Spires or the expansion that came after it, just about every other group I was able to find had someone boxing in it. Now, seeing how how EQ was primarily a PvE game, I didn't see how a player could cause a problem playing multiple characters. However, I found it slightly annoying to see that players who paid more subscriptions would be able to play through the game without the need to group with anyone but themselves. I didn't understand what was so great about grouping with myself, however narcissistic I may be, but I always thought that the beauty of an MMO was the social aspects of it. In other words, playing with other people. Also, considering the player no longer had to wait for a group like every other person who only paid for one account, I saw it as unfair that the player would have such an advantage over people because he paid more money.
Now, seeing what multiboxing is doing in this game, primarily in the ettinmoors, I'd have to say this is starting to look a lot more like Everquest. The problem here being that there is a larger difference when the advantage of being multiple characters for use against computer controlled content is now used to destroy players easily. Which, in and of itself, kills the point of PvP in general. PvP is a competitive sport in which you engage your skills and abilities to conquer other opponents who have a near equal chance of conquering you in the process. However, it seems to be the tendency for players to take an easier path, losing sight of the entire point of PvP (which is to compete against players for fun) and turn Player Versus Player into Slaughter Versus Player. In this case, the goal of the player is to kill players with the least effort and, quite possibly, skill for the sheer thrill of just killing players. I've seen this happen in Ultima Online as well, even moreso when it became possible to burst damage a player enough to kill them within a second, before they had a chance to even realize they were being attacked.
Now, I'm sure some players can argue that real war is not like video game PvP, you can die instantaneously to just about anything before you have a chance to react. This is true, but then I would point out that PvP is not real war, it's competition no matter how someone may paint it. And these are video games, not wars.
Now, my beef with boxers in the PvMP scene is quite simply this: They have an advantage over other players by having access to more than one avatar to kill other players on the battlefield, and they gain this advantage by paying more money than other players. It is quite unfair to players who don't want to spend more than $9.95 a month or $200 for a lifetime to be competitive. Services offered by most MMO developers or publishers tend to be for actions that do not directly affect in game experience, for example character transfers would allow players to switch a server but not change their character in any way to give them an advantage over other players who did not angage in the service. I don't believe Turbine specifically states this as a service to players: being able to pay more money a month or more money in total will entitle players the ability to access more than 1 character within the game at the same time. As such, I'm surprised to hear they don't consider it a violation.
Personally, I consider it an abuse of account service. Paying more money should never give players more advantage inside the game than players who pay only what is required for their account.
Of course that's just my gleaming 2 cents of shininess, take it with a grain of salt.
Nobody in any online game should have a CLEAR advantage just because they spent more money then others.
To those who want to bring up Pre-order rewards, that's not spending more money, as the cost of pre-ordering is deducted from hte cost of the game. ($5 to preorder = -$5 from price of game.)
To those who say, he spent the money, he can do what he wants with it.
Wrong.
By that theory, I can troll everyone in Bree with Music, because I spent the money on my account and can do with it, whatever I wish.
PvPing at it's heart should be about skill. It's about the challenge of fighting another human being, not a programmed NPC. When someone Multi-boxes the challenge is taken, they can become one man armies and wipe things off the map.
To those who say "A group of different people is even worse then a boxer, as they have more control. So why does it matter?"
Because there are somethings a group can't do. Even with mass focus fire, you can't get 6 Tainted Kisses or Burning Arrows off in the same instant. It's those brief delays that can make or break fights. If boxers aren't moving, they look like one single creep, and it's not possible to do that with other players, seeing one spider out on the moors, running to kill it and then getting a face full of 6 poison dots is just screwed up.
And the fact that nothing is being done over it is worse, it ENCOURGES The behaviour. Hey, if he can multi-box his way through the game and screw other people over, why not do the same? It's my money, right?
If People who exploit and such are not dealt with firmly, then it sets the bar that everyone can do that. If you can multi-box the moors, why not Multibox your way through Raids and sell the rewards that can be sold for an ungodly amount of cash? Or multi-box a bunch of characters and then sell them? (A lot of people do that sort of thing.)
To try and sum this up, Multi-boxing is an unfair advantage over others, whether you think it is, or is not. (Any army would LOVE to control entire battalions with one mind, it gives more coordinationg then possible in groups) Not dealing with boxers is just ASKING for more peopel to do it and total screw a game up.
how this person can post in these threads talking like he is gods gift to gaming is very disheartening and it is wrecking very good and social community.
i for one would like turbine to do something about this lamer for single handed wrecking the community that took a long time to get where it is
Wow, I'm speaking like I'm "gods gift to gaming", can you quote where I've implied that?
Also, I have single handed wreck the community? That's quite the accusation as it's each individuals option how they react to a situation. I've not made any threats, cursed anyone out, called people names, or posted RL death threats on a public forum or in the game which several of the vocal people in this thread have done (which all is recorded).
Vengie: I've always enjoyed play with you the last few years, you really need to reread what you've posted mate. It's not your style.
Nobody in any online game should have a CLEAR advantage just because they spent more money then others.
No advantage. 6 players grouped is the same as a boxer playing 6 characters
The Moors is a GROUP area. The "GROUP " has the advantage.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
PvPing at it's heart should be about skill. It's about the challenge of fighting another human being, not a programmed NPC. When someone Multi-boxes the challenge is taken, they can become one man armies and wipe things off the map.
Pvp seems to be mostly about whining and creating drama. Multiboxer aren't "programmed".
Have you ever fought a multiboxer? You seem to be a defeatist. They aren't difficult to kill. Easy considering there's usually 6 characters.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
To those who say "A group of different people is even worse then a boxer, as they have more control. So why does it matter?"
Because there are somethings a group can't do. Even with mass focus fire, you can't get 6 Tainted Kisses or Burning Arrows off in the same instant. It's those brief delays that can make or break fights. If boxers aren't moving, they look like one single creep, and it's not possible to do that with other players, seeing one spider out on the moors, running to kill it and then getting a face full of 6 poison dots is just screwed up.
I can focus fire. It's easy to fire at the same time using vent. Group much?
I just explaned how to stand on one spot as a group. It's dumb to do that, but knock yourself out AoE'er will love it. (You should complain about stealth too, those are really hard to see and the characters hiding behind a tree and...and...).
Multiboxer are easy to kill, easy destiny.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
And the fact that nothing is being done over it is worse, it ENCOURGES The behaviour. Hey, if he can multi-box his way through the game and screw other people over, why not do the same? It's my money, right?
It's okay to "screw" the multiboxer though? This forums anti-boxer drama "Behavior" is acceptable? They only bad behavior I see is aimed at the multiboxer.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
If People who exploit and such are not dealt with firmly, then it sets the bar that everyone can do that. If you can multi-box the moors, why not Multibox your way through Raids and sell the rewards that can be sold for an ungodly amount of cash? Or multi-box a bunch of characters and then sell them? (A lot of people do that sort of thing.)
If you find an exploit report it. Turbine always been quick and removing them.
Why hold multiboxer to a higher standard than everyone else? You don't sell raid booty for a "ungodly amount of cash"?
Your characters belong to Turbine. You can't sell them.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
To try and sum this up, Multi-boxing is an unfair advantage over others, whether you think it is, or is not. (Any army would LOVE to control entire battalions with one mind, it gives more coordinationg then possible in groups) Not dealing with boxers is just ASKING for more peopel to do it and total screw a game up.
There's no advantage! A group can do anything a multiboxer can do. Maybe your group can't.
More multiboxer's. Great! Bring it! More killing for me.
Last edited by zarmekhem; Jul 08 2009 at 01:12 AM.
There's no advantage! A group can do anything a multiboxer can do Maybe your group can't.
(Im sorry, I have to.)
Hmm.... then why don't you and your 'friends' get a group together instead going the "long way around" by buying all that garbage equipment, and paying a stupid and wasteful amount of money on 6 subscriptions? Or do you not have that many friends to pull off a 6 person grp?
If its 'the same' in every aspect of the game....why are you here doing what your doing?
If it was 'the same' as you would like to try and make us think you actually believe, you wouldn't go through the trouble to control 6 toons.
You will be greifed. It wont be by me though But it will happen, you and your 'friends' are bringing this upon yourselves.
There was a certain creep who made a name for himself and tried to justify himself and what he did to creep and freep side after transferring here...and....well hes not here any more....such a crying shame really
No advantage. 6 players grouped is the same as a boxer playing 6 characters
The Moors is a GROUP area. The "GROUP " has the advantage.
No it's not the same.
Pvp seems to be mostly about whining and creating drama. Multiboxer aren't "programmed".
Have you ever fought a multiboxer? You seem to be a defeatist. They aren't difficult to kill. Easy considering there's usually 6 characters.
PvP has BECOME That. At it's heart, that's not WHY You play. You play it for fun and chellenge, not moaning and whining people, that's easy to get at home for free.
No, I've not fought the boxer granted. And if they're not hard to kill, pray tell how he's gotten to Rank 4-5 in a matter of days? He sure seems to be doing fine.
I can focus fire. It's easy to fire at the same time using vent. Group much?
I just explaned how to stand on one spot as a group. It's dumb to do that, but knock yourself out AoE'er will love it. (You should complain about stealth too, those are really hard to see and the characters hiding behind a tree and...and...).
Multiboxer are easy to kill, easy destiny.
Congrats you can focus fire. Good for you. There's such a thing called 'human error' Believe it or not, sometimes in groups miscommunication can be had. Did you know somepople refer to LC as LY? (Lumber Yard) and that most people don't know what the heck LY means, and then it take stime to clarify? In PvP everything is fast, so seconds is all it takes.
There's also the possiblity to mis-fire the wrong target, can't say hte number of times I've seen those accidents happen.
Also, Stealth is a class trait. The ability to be unseen. Hiding behind a tree is hardly doing anything, as whenever I freep, I manage to see them rather easy.
Stacking up without boxing HAHAHA-..oh...Wow you were serious. Tell you what, give it a shot. Then do an emote or something and time 100% perfect so you move as one. Spiders the burrow on top of each other and come back up, appear as one. You try and do this without boxing and there's delays.
It's okay to "screw" the multiboxer though? This forums anti-boxer drama "Behavior" is acceptable? They only bad behavior I see is aimed at the multiboxer.
So arguing against cheating in a game means I'm against that person?
Cool story bro.
Wrong, I've nothing against the guy. I don't hate him, I'm sure he's perfectly nice.
But an exploit is still an exploit and kills fairness, so I want the boxing to stop. (Heck, if he just stops boxing and plays normal, I'd be happy.)
Not sure how I 'screwed' the boxer either, if he can't play without boxing, then it's his problem?
If you find an exploit report it. Turbine always been quick and removing them.
Why hold multiboxer to a higher standard than everyone else? You don't sell raid booty for a "ungodly amount of cash"?
Your characters belong to Turbine. You can't sell them.
Hehehe. It's cute you think that Turbine will fix things swiftly, I'm sorry someone refresh my memory, how long as the HIPS/Dissapear bug been in the game and reported how many times? And remind me when it was fixed? OR how about when Wargs Dissapear, the NPCs stil lfollow them, that's a good one too.
I held who at a standard then wha? I thought the whole point of my post was to say Boxing is bad...
And no I don't sell for a hiuge amount of cash. I sell them for at MOST, 500s on the AH. No more for ANYTHING.
Well, there's a rather lucrative business in doing so despite what you think. Accounts are made, characters levelled to cap and such, then they sell the accounts.
There's no advantage! A group can do anything a multiboxer can do. Maybe your group can't.
A group CAN do everything a boxer can do.
But a Boxer has an unfair level of coordination that no other group can hope to acquire, just because he spent more cash.
Also, my group does rather well, thanks. Every raid done so far with flying colors.
Last edited by TwilightNight; Jul 08 2009 at 02:04 AM.
Wow, I'm speaking like I'm "gods gift to gaming", can you quote where I've implied that?
Also, I have single handed wreck the community? That's quite the accusation as it's each individuals option how they react to a situation. I've not made any threats, cursed anyone out, called people names, or posted RL death threats on a public forum or in the game which several of the vocal people in this thread have done (which all is recorded).
Vengie: I've always enjoyed play with you the last few years, you really need to reread what you've posted mate. It's not your style.
If you've played with this community for the past 2 years, then you should have know how it would react to this.
So either your someone who holds a grudge against this community and have figured out a way to piss a lot of people off while not breaking Turbines "rules"
or your someone who has been banned previously and this is your way of abusing the system and pissing people off!
No advantage. 6 players grouped is the same as a boxer playing 6 characters
The Moors is a GROUP area. The "GROUP " has the advantage.
Yes, I'm sure Turbine intended this game to be playable by 1 person for all group accessible content. Soon we may even have boxed raids, boxed kinships, and perhaps boxed sparring sessions (fighting yourself, you'll be your most equally match opponent). Considering you cannot run more than 1 client on the same computer it's pretty hard to do, maybe they'll fix this in the next book patch.
Yes, Ettinmoors is a group/raid area. However, from my impression, the reason this game is online is to have players form groups of Players. They are not groups of characters, they are groups of individually thinking players who each have their own experience and technique to add to the game. That's the dynamics of an MMORPG, you're not alone.
Furthermore, 6 characters under one player is an advantage. You as the single player have the strength and capability of 6 characters, whereas the normal player who does not box has only the one character to handle. Groups are designed so that everyone must know how to play their character in order for the entire group to be efficient. This is a gameplay mechanic to help create difficulty for group and raid content. The closer the group works like the legs of a millipede, the higher their chance of success becomes. However, when you replace 6 players with 1 with entire control of the 6, you are suddenly the millipede.
This is an advantage, because this one player now has 6 chances to kill another player, and the combined strength of 6 characters to take him out. Coordination and communication among players in a group is part of the gameplay in an MMO.
Originally Posted by Zarmekhem
Pvp seems to be mostly about whining and creating drama. Multiboxer aren't "programmed".
Have you ever fought a multiboxer? You seem to be a defeatist. They aren't difficult to kill. Easy considering there's usually 6 characters.
Players take PvP seriously. Very seriously. They do not like it when other players gain advantages without working hard to do it in game. And no, buying 5 other computers and subscriptions is not hard work inside a game.
Do people like it when athletes take steroids to gain advantage of other players in sports? Not really, in fact it can probably get athletes suspended if there is enough evidence to justify steroid use. I see this similarly like steroids, for every character you control in the battlefield you're essentially gaining a large advantage over what a single character can do. For an example, controlling two hunters is like being twice the hunter, being able to double up on your nukes and cooldowns, and while a player may kill one of them, the other is still there to deal death to the competitor. It should only take 1 death to take a player out of combat, not 6 deaths.
Originally Posted by Zarmekhem
It's okay to "screw" the multiboxer though? This forums anti-boxer drama "Behavior" is acceptable? They only bad behavior I see is aimed at the multiboxer.
The forum's "anti-boxer drama" is here for a reason. When people can't get heard, they start shouting a little louder. Sometimes it takes a megaphone to get others to listen. Being aggressive is necessary to get things changed, being a push-over will get people walked on.
Originally Posted by Zarmekhem
There's no advantage! A group can do anything a multiboxer can do. Maybe your group can't.
More multiboxer's. Great! Bring it! More killing for me.
If there is no advantage, then there is no reason to do it. Yet, people do it. And I can't think of any reason to spend possibly $60 or so in monthly subscriptions, and quite possibly more for separate PCs/laptops and hardware to run LOTRO and Box, other than it gives them an advantage in PvMP. And even for that, I think they should read some articles on Video Game Addiction, because I'm sure there are some symptoms concerning putting that much effort into being able to gank other players in a video game.
If a player really wants to play by himself in a group, there are many single player RPGs on the market that can do that for much, much cheaper. Any of them will do fine. Heck, there is RTSs like Battle for Middle Earth you can control your own raids.
Likewise, if a player were actually good at PvP, he wouldn't need to box to do it. But, like I've said in my previous post, players always look for an easy way, even if it means to kill the challenge and point of playing in the first place.
No, I've not fought the boxer granted. And if they're not hard to kill, pray tell how he's gotten to Rank 4-5 in a matter of days? He sure seems to be doing fine.
Ranking is soooo, not important, but you had to ask.
Its the number of hours you play
You played the week of 2/20/09 and got 1,257. Then nothing till the week of 07/03/09 and you get 3,413. Gratz on rank 3.
Total Infamy/Renown for last week on Elendilmir 2,102,859 split between 875 players.
The bar is set at 74,290 per WEEK by Brodster. And that took in about 60 hours of game time.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
Congrats you can focus fire. Good for you.
Thx.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
Well, there's a rather lucrative business in doing so despite what you think. Accounts are made, characters levelled to cap and such, then they sell the accounts.
Account Ban. And a none issue for anyone making more than $1 per hour.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
A group CAN do everything a boxer can do.
But a Boxer has an unfair level of coordination that no other group can hope to acquire
Our groups better than any boxer. Two of us can kill a six boxer.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
Also, my group does rather well, thanks. Every raid done so far with flying colors.
Excellent, keep it up.
Last edited by zarmekhem; Jul 08 2009 at 05:19 AM.
Yes, I'm sure Turbine intended this game to be playable by 1 person for all group accessible content.
If that's how you like to play, great enjoy doing that. It doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother you.
Originally Posted by DariakFrost
Yes, Ettinmoors is a group/raid area. However, from my impression, the reason this game is online is to have players form groups of Players. They are not groups of characters, they are groups of individually thinking players who each have their own experience and technique to add to the game. That's the dynamics of an MMORPG, you're not alone.
Group up if you like. But let others play they way they want to, which might not be your way.
Originally Posted by DariakFrost
This is an advantage, because this one player now has 6 chances to kill another player, and the combined strength of 6 characters to take him out
The player behind the computer is not killing you, the characters are.
You solo ONE of the multiboxer toons: 100 infamy.
Multiboxer kills you, each of his toons get 16 infamy each.
The multiboxer has to kill you 6 times to get the same reward you get for killing only 1 of his toons.
Nothings stopping you from grouping up in the Moors and outnumbering the boxer.
And again, have you fought a multibox? They're easy to kill.
Originally Posted by DariakFrost
Players take PvP seriously. Very seriously. They do not like it when other players gain advantages without working hard to do it in game. And no, buying 5 other computers and subscriptions is not hard work inside a game.
They're afraid of what they don't know. Speculating how deadly it must be and they've never been near one.
Originally Posted by DariakFrost
Do people like it when athletes take steroids
No context to Pvp Moors.
Originally Posted by DariakFrost
The forum's "anti-boxer drama" is here for a reason. When people can't get heard, they start shouting a little louder. Sometimes it takes a megaphone to get others to listen. Being aggressive is necessary to get things changed, being a push-over will get people walked on.
I hear the fear, I hear the drama.
Step into the moors a kill a few boxers that will all go away.
Originally Posted by DariakFrost
If there is no advantage, then there is no reason to do it. Yet, people do it.
They don't drama you. Maybe consider you shouldn't drama them.
Originally Posted by DariakFrost
If a player really wants to play by himself in a group, there are many single player RPGs on the market that can do that for much, much cheaper. Any of them will do fine. Heck, there is RTSs like Battle for Middle Earth you can control your own raids.
Or you could let them play the way they want to, instead of the way you think they should.
Originally Posted by DariakFrost
Likewise, if a player were actually good at PvP, he wouldn't need to box to do it. But, like I've said in my previous post, players always look for an easy way, even if it means to kill the challenge and point of playing in the first place.
Leave it to them to do what they want.
1v1 stopped being a challenge 100,000 kills ago.
Me vs Multiboxer, that a good challenge.
Last edited by zarmekhem; Jul 08 2009 at 05:01 AM.
If that's how you like to play, great enjoy doing that. It doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother you.
I'm glad it doesn't bother, but I don't really care, don't think that was the point that zinged over your head.
The point is, the game isn't designed for a multiboxer, it's designed for people with lives that have 1 PC or play 1 account at a time.
Group up if you like. But let others play they way they want to, which might not be your way.
Okay, then let me play how *I* Want to, which is without multi-boxers.
The player behind the computer is not killing you, the characters are.
You solo ONE of the multiboxer toons: 100 infamy.
Multiboxer kills you, each of his toons get 16 infamy each.
The multiboxer has to kill you 6 times to get the same reward you get for killing only 1 of his toons.
1. Roboticly literal interpretation FTW.
2. How can I solo him if I need a group? (Which you state later on to just outnumber him.) =)
3. No, he's getting greater reward. You forget, that while it is divided up, the about of Infamy HE Gain is greater, as creeps nearly always have the 5% boost, plus Group Creeps got a buff to their gains.
Nothings stopping you from grouping up in the Moors and outnumbering the boxer.
And again, have you fought a multibox? They're easy to kill.
Hard to solo one of his toons if I have to out-number him, now isn't it?
Also, I've not fought him, but seeing as I mostly Creep, not freep, I know how wrong you are to think it's POSSIBLE to solo ONE of his toons. Yeah, good luck trying to kill one spider, when 6 are attacking you.
And keep in mind, that each TK does at least 300 per impact, and each dot tick has been known to hit 300 too at higher ranks and traited for damage (Which spiders should be) So I hear. That's 300 x 6 which is 1,800 just off the impact damage of JUST Tainted Kiss. Assuming none Crit. Then you still have the Web ball attack that also usually strikes for a good 400 for me at Rank 3-4, so that's another 2,400 there. So that's 4,200 right there, just in impact damages which can all be gotten off in a few seconds. That's enough to murder nearly every caster class, and SEVERELY crush the heavier classes, but then those 300 DoT ticks will finish that mighty quickly, and even they aren't 300, by the time Web ball is done, TK is usually cooled. Not even Raid bosses do 4,200 per two hits.
What was that about soloing again? (And before you claim My mathz iz off, I used a calculator.)
They're afraid of what they don't know. Speculating how deadly it must be and they've never been near one.
Nnnnnnooo they're generally just irate when people cheat.
But then I'm suspecting you're one of hte multi-boxers as well, since you're defending him mighty hard for someone with nothing to gain of it. See, I have something to gain of it if he stops boxing. Which is going back to having fun in the moors and not hearing of this bloody boxer every night.
No context to Pvp Moors.
Odd I was about to say the same about your arguments overall...
And how is it not? =p
PvP Is competetive, no?
Steroids are used in COMPETETIVE Sports.
Boxing is used to gain an edge.
Steroids are used to gain an edge.
Wh-why what's this!
Could it be? IT IS! A Correlations of the two that was there all along!
I hear the fear, I hear the drama.
Step into the moors a kill a few boxers that will all go away.
There's no fear, so you must be tuned into the wrogn radio station.
And the Drama is there because people want him gone ASAP.
And as covered above, killing a few boxers isn't exactly going to happen without much larger numbers, and if Turbine does NOTHING to make them leave, why woudl htey go? =p
If I yelled at you for doing the Rift, and turbine said 'we don't care' Why would you leave? They have NO REASON to leave, unless Turbine actually realizes that htey will lose a lot of accoutns over this. (Not me personally, as I was gifted a lifetime sub, but others will and have.)
They don't drama you. Maybe consider you shouldn't drama them.
I believe I heard a phrase somewhere fitting for this...
No context to Pvp Moors
The point there, is that if it doesn't give an edge, why do it? People do it, because it gives an edge.
Or you could let them play the way they want to, instead of the way you think they should.
Or.
How about they play the game, the way it's designed, intended and BALANCED to be played like, and not cheat?
That could be fun!
Also, as I said before, then let me play how I want to, which is, with no boxers. Let me play how I want, instead of how you think I should.
Leave it to them to do what they want.
Because that totally resolves issues.
"There's a troll griefing us here!"
But hey, let 'em do what they want right?
1v1 stopped being a challenge 100,000 kills ago.
Most likely because you were the one who died in those 100,000 kills and left. If it's not a challenge, why do people request them?
Me vs Multiboxer, that a good challenge.
Hehehehehehehehe
Also, Ranks do = time spent i nthe moors by far.
I've had my Spider since Book 13, and I'm just now hitting Rank 5, because Generally after I debuff my target, somone come salong to kill it, and I get like...10 infamy because I hardly got a hit in.
Ranks DO equal important, and this proves to me you've NEVER Even touched a creep character, or you'd know what is absolute basics.
For Creeps, Ranks = skills. Higher ranks unlock more and better skills, and traits.
For freeps it's a shiny, maybe do actual research before you try and debate a point, or spellcheck, as I think you meant RATING.
Last edited by TwilightNight; Jul 08 2009 at 07:22 AM.
to - NoPain - you are the best creep out there. I would say confidently you are respected by every freep or creep of any worth. Not to worry.
Thank you *hugs* I really do appreciate the kind words.
I am doing my best not to let it get to me, it just gets hard when so many people are getting upset. Hopefully things will start to get back on an even keel at some stage. In any case, I will continue to be there tossing my slime on all and sundry
Sad Nopain makes me sad panda. Looks like I took a break at the right time. The call of R9 is hard to resist, but will probably be on hiatus until the spider infestation has died back a bit.
I was wondering where you got to Budo. Looking forward to seeing you back out there, hopefully soon
I hope this drama ends soon so we can all get back to doing the one thing we like to do the most and that is kill each other. Nopain you rock. I have your back always.
I understand where you're coming from. And I am soooo sorry that someone as wonderful and kindhearted as you has been hurt by all this drama.
Originally Posted by Rel72
*Hugz* to Nopain...right there with ya Furc.
When Nopain feels sad you know things are really bad
*hugs Furc and Naba* Thank you. Don't worry, some days seem darker than others out there, but I will continue to do what I can to try and share a little light and laughter around. Just a simple smile can often go a long way
Last edited by Lilliandra; Jul 08 2009 at 11:34 AM.
Painy, I'm sorry to see that you're dragged into the monkey **** fight as well. As usual, it's impossible to truly knows what happens inside the 'Moors at all times/on both sides. All that I know is what I saw. Did I see you or other respectable Creeps heal/aid the 6-boxer? No, not to my recollection. And of course I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. However, there were plenty of other Creeps, some with rank, that were most certainly helping this fellow. Others, even, wouldn't push out from STAB against 4-5 Freeps until both 6-boxers were there to mow us down.
So, I'm sorry if it seems that I blamed you or any of the other honorable Creeps. It's a battle out there, and at times very chaotic. Even what I 'see' isn't always correct or accurate. Thanks for the clarification, and I'll see you out there.
It's OK Illy, I understand where you are coming from, and I really appreciate your reply. Thank you.
I just really don't want to be a part of anything that has such a disruptive and negative impact on the community. Seeing everyone arguing on here, and hearing all the comments being made... it's just difficult all round. I just want us all to get back to having some old fashioned FUN. Hopefully we will all be able to pull together and make it happen.
sigh this has to be a very sad day when painy gets upset at this game she is the nicest person ever to be on this server and it upsets me aswell to see her upset
*hugs Venge* I feel the same way... seeing friends upset upsets me too. Which is the main reason I am feeling so affected by all of this. I have come to know a lot of players over the past 2+ years, and have made many friends within the community. At the moment that community feels very torn, broken even, and I can't help but be saddened about it all.
Originally Posted by gobblydegook
to nopain i am very sorry for anything that has upset you i really miss the old days when we had our balls to the wall fighting and could always count on your heals
Believe me Venge, I miss it too. However I will do my best to remain optimistic that things will improve given some time. In the meantime I will keep doing what I do as best as I can
If you've played with this community for the past 2 years, then you should have know how it would react to this.
So either your someone who holds a grudge against this community and have figured out a way to piss a lot of people off while not breaking Turbines "rules"
or your someone who has been banned previously and this is your way of abusing the system and pissing people off!
Quite the opposite, my view was this server contained a large number of kind heart and mature players behind the characters that are playing a game in a multiple player versus player environment. The norm has been large groups of players versus others, zergs and farming of the other side since Moria.
What did I find? Friends making up or passing on unfounded rumors, people threatening the community at large, allegations, cursing, threatening people in real life, etc. Its was done in a public fashion visible to others and to Turbine. There are a few popular people that have rallied the emotions of others in the game and have turned their hostility and frustration into a vendetta.
I hold no grudge nor are my mains banned. Multiboxing is accepted and allowed by Turbine and there are unnamed people that have two to seven accounts on the servers for years now. PvMP multiboxing has been around for a long time.
Do I enjoy the challenge of maintaining six characters at one time on six computers, having seven keyboards on the desk and six mice? Yes, very much so. I also enjoyed piecing together free used computer parts and buying $7 copies of the old Midway distribution. Instead of spending a thousand dollars on multiplexing hardware or third party software I spent $70 on a Logitech wireless keyboard and receivers to replicate my keystrokes to the alts.
Could I run a healer class to run group heals and prolong the weavers and gave a run buff? Yes, but I wasn't doing so. I made a glass cannon approach that was easy to foil and resulted in over 600 reknown to the few that chose to take on the challenge. I also avoided staying with the main raids for extended periods of time and also would intentionally run into overwhelming numbers of freeps, with massive healing on their side.
Why? Because this is simply a game to play, not a real life threat to my way of being, who I am, or what I will be. If the game ended at this moment I'd find something else to do with my spare time and wouldn't consider it a real life game over. Those that worked themselves up into a frenzy will move onto a new enemy, drama, or dislike. In the meantime they are only causing grief for themselves and others be amplifying the drama.
Quite the opposite, my view was this server contained a large number of kind heart and mature players behind the characters that are playing a game in a multiple player versus player environment. The norm has been large groups of players versus others, zergs and farming of the other side since Moria.
What did I find? Friends making up or passing on unfounded rumors, people threatening the community at large, allegations, cursing, threatening people in real life, etc. Its was done in a public fashion visible to others and to Turbine. There are a few popular people that have rallied the emotions of others in the game and have turned their hostility and frustration into a vendetta.
I hold no grudge nor are my mains banned. Multiboxing is accepted and allowed by Turbine and there are unnamed people that have two to seven accounts on the servers for years now. PvMP multiboxing has been around for a long time.
Do I enjoy the challenge of maintaining six characters at one time on six computers, having seven keyboards on the desk and six mice? Yes, very much so. I also enjoyed piecing together free used computer parts and buying $7 copies of the old Midway distribution. Instead of spending a thousand dollars on multiplexing hardware or third party software I spent $70 on a Logitech wireless keyboard and receivers to replicate my keystrokes to the alts.
Could I run a healer class to run group heals and prolong the weavers and gave a run buff? Yes, but I wasn't doing so. I made a glass cannon approach that was easy to foil and resulted in over 600 reknown to the few that chose to take on the challenge. I also avoided staying with the main raids for extended periods of time and also would intentionally run into overwhelming numbers of freeps, with massive healing on their side.
Why? Because this is simply a game to play, not a real life threat to my way of being, who I am, or what I will be. If the game ended at this moment I'd find something else to do with my spare time and wouldn't consider it a real life game over. Those that worked themselves up into a frenzy will move onto a new enemy, drama, or dislike. In the meantime they are only causing grief for themselves and others be amplifying the drama.
Thats pretty crazy man, 7 keyboards etc. Boxing isnt new to me, so ive had a time to adjust to them, and what he says is true, hes going easy on us by running a weaver boxer. Was alot worse seeing 5 BA r6 with WL bubbling, aoe heal+rez the boxers back to life. Peeps, your going to have to live with it, Turbine isnt going to prevent this so we'll need to adjust (or log kicking and screaming). Adjust peacefully or this will ruin the community even more. Biych and moan sure, just take up smoking and settle ur nerves instead of creating more drama.
Could you start a Defiler boxer and run him around more, id wet myself laughing watching 6 green Defilers konk something to death like clones lol...(yer i know, im sick). Since we cannot prevent you from having you boxer, it would be good to see you allow us to have our fun, by not run with the raid and tear up fights 1 shotting everything.
Cya, you've reach #1 of the most wanted, now all those warg will be fighting for #2 heh.
Quite the opposite, my view was this server contained a large number of kind heart and mature players behind the characters that are playing a game in a multiple player versus player environment. The norm has been large groups of players versus others, zergs and farming of the other side since Moria.
What did I find? Friends making up or passing on unfounded rumors, people threatening the community at large, allegations, cursing, threatening people in real life, etc. Its was done in a public fashion visible to others and to Turbine. There are a few popular people that have rallied the emotions of others in the game and have turned their hostility and frustration into a vendetta.
I hold no grudge nor are my mains banned. Multiboxing is accepted and allowed by Turbine and there are unnamed people that have two to seven accounts on the servers for years now. PvMP multiboxing has been around for a long time.
Do I enjoy the challenge of maintaining six characters at one time on six computers, having seven keyboards on the desk and six mice? Yes, very much so. I also enjoyed piecing together free used computer parts and buying $7 copies of the old Midway distribution. Instead of spending a thousand dollars on multiplexing hardware or third party software I spent $70 on a Logitech wireless keyboard and receivers to replicate my keystrokes to the alts.
Could I run a healer class to run group heals and prolong the weavers and gave a run buff? Yes, but I wasn't doing so. I made a glass cannon approach that was easy to foil and resulted in over 600 reknown to the few that chose to take on the challenge. I also avoided staying with the main raids for extended periods of time and also would intentionally run into overwhelming numbers of freeps, with massive healing on their side.
Why? Because this is simply a game to play, not a real life threat to my way of being, who I am, or what I will be. If the game ended at this moment I'd find something else to do with my spare time and wouldn't consider it a real life game over. Those that worked themselves up into a frenzy will move onto a new enemy, drama, or dislike. In the meantime they are only causing grief for themselves and others be amplifying the drama.
Couldn't care less about your impressions of the community, your systems-acumen, your workarounds, or your equipment. I don't care about the thought process that led you to whatever bizarre concept of fun you believe this is. No one cares about your opinion of yourself or your thoughts about your way of being. What you choose to do with your spare time if lotro shut down is irrelevant.
What's relevant is you've stirred up a hornet's nest by bringing the worst to a game: cheating within the letter of the rules. No drama, no grief; I'm calm as I write this: you suck.
Last edited by Blue_Horseshoe; Jul 08 2009 at 01:42 PM.
O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us!
Vengie: I've always enjoyed play with you the last few years, you really need to reread what you've posted mate. It's not your style.
If you've creeped or freeped way back before moria hit, you would understand the kind of camaraderie this community has, hence, you would understand why so many people are against you 6-boxing.
You might not be single-handely ruining the server, but you are definitely a contributing factor. Grow up.
The point is, the game isn't designed for a multiboxer, it's designed for people with lives that have 1 PC or play 1 account at a time.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ultibox&page=3
Multi-boxing is completely acceptable for any Turbine game. Our terms of service do specifically warn against Unattended Combat Macros; however this type of action is completely different than multi-boxing. Turbine as a company does understand the significant differences and thus doesn't prevent multi-boxing in any way.
Have a life and don't play all the time. That's fine, to each his own.
Play 10 hours everyday. That's fine, to each his own.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
Okay, then let me play how *I* Want to, which is without multi-boxers.
As you said, you never have, so you probably never will. Great, to each his own. Play the way you want to, but don't tell eveyone how they have to play.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
How can I solo him if I need a group? (Which you state later on to just outnumber him.) =)
Some of us can solo him. You can't, so you could use a group, then you won't be so afraid to get near him, and then learn how to solo him.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
Hard to solo one of his toons if I have to out-number him, now isn't it?
Being outnumber is part of playing in the Open PvP in the Moors. The side are never even.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
Also, I've not fought him, but seeing as I mostly Creep, not freep, I know how wrong you are to think it's POSSIBLE to solo ONE of his toons. Yeah, good luck trying to kill one spider, when 6 are attacking you.
Eh...weak.
Stealth beside him, riddle one as he turns to leave. Wait to see if he notices that he left one behind. Kill it before he even notices. Hips aways.
OR stay behind the majority of his toon and aoe them down. Even with full dots on you a champs has 24 sec to kill most, if not all off them.
OR stand behind the fight, work up full attune, approch from behind something so no LoS, FwnP, WoF, CA,CA, SW, one dead, run back PtH, have a hunter cure you.
OR RoT max range to lock them all down. Pick one of the followers, killed it at 40m, it's ranges is only 30m. You have 30 sec to kill as many as you want.
Check the class forums if you want tips on how to play your class.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
What was that about soloing again? (And before you claim My mathz iz off, I used a calculator.)
Your arm chairing a fear scenario. Learn by doing. Go kill him and you won't be afraid anymore.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
How about they play the game, the way it's designed, intended and BALANCED to be played like, and not cheat?
That could be fun!
The referee, Turbine, says it's not cheating.
Good luck finding Balanced in the open free for all of Moor PvP. It doesn't exist there.
It is fun.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
But hey, let 'em do what they want right?
Yes
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
Most likely because you were the one who died in those 100,000 kills and left. If it's not a challenge, why do people request them?
I choose to take more risk if I'm near the rez yard or mini.
I don't care if I die. Sometimes I die just to move across the map.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
I've had my Spider since Book 13, and I'm just now hitting Rank 5, because Generally after I debuff my target, somone come salong to kill it, and I get like...10 infamy because I hardly got a hit in.
Thats called tagging. You share the points of a kills pool with all those that tag the kill. Doesn't matter how much you hit the kill.
A kill's pool goes down each time you kill them. A kill's pool goes up very slowly. The kills with the largest pools are those that don't pvp all day long, every day.
Originally Posted by TwilightNight
Ranks DO equal important, and this proves to me you've NEVER Even touched a creep character, or you'd know what is absolute basics.
For Creeps, Ranks = skills. Higher ranks unlock more and better skills, and traits.
For freeps it's a shiny, maybe do actual research before you try and debate a point, or spellcheck, as I think you meant RATING.
Ranks don't matter to how much infamy you get for a kill.
Last edited by zarmekhem; Jul 08 2009 at 01:55 PM.
What's relevant is you've stirred up a hornet's nest by bringing the worst to a game: cheating within the letter of the rules. No drama, no grief; I'm calm as I write this: you suck
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ZomgnabaProud to be part of Bteam
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Re: turbines answer to multi boxing
Nopain / Yumikoto
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