Thread: Why Gandalf / Aragorn solo'ed moria ?

In LOTR book 1, gandalf and aragorn both boast about their experience in soloing MORIA. gandalf admit that he pass from east gate thru hollin gate , aragorn only admit that he enters moria but he never state more that that, so its safe to assume aragorn only 'recon' / testing the waters before he ran out from moria.

my curiosity is this, why in their travel they never get ambushed by goblins/orcs in moria and why the balrog allowed them to enter moria. in Dwarves VS goblin Wars, the balrog stand just inside the moria gate and prevent Nain from entering..

iirc moria has been abandoned for thousand of years, why there is no more information about durin's bane ? did the dwarves keep the information themselves ? any visiting elf from hollins should recognized the balrog right away.

probably because they were quiet enough not to be noticed. in fotr, its not until pippen does something incredibly stupid that the orcs notice the fellowship.

also, i dont think the balrog would have cared very much about aragorn. he may have only came against the fellowship because he could sense the power of gandalf, who was of the same order as he was. remember that his master is morgoth, and i dont think he would care at all about the wars of sauron.

Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1

my curiosity is this, why in their travel they never get ambushed by goblins/orcs in moria and why the balrog allowed them to enter moria.

That's what happens when you have a "fool of a Took" in your fellowship.

Being extremely quiet, it would probably be relatively easy to venture through Moria. Gollum made it through quite alright and even passed back through as he followed the Fellowship. The orcs seem to have mostly inhabited the lower levels. After all, Ori's words in the Book of Mazarbul referred to "drums in the deep." And, it wasn't until Pippin dropped a stone down the well (in the Chamber of Crossroads) that the Fellowship's presence in Moria was noticed.

Originally Posted by The Fellowship of the Ring, Ch. 4: A Journey in the Dark

Pippin felt curiously attracted by the well. While the others were unrolling blankets and making beds against the walls of the chamber, as far as possible from the hole in the floor, he crept to the edge and peered over. A chill air seemed to strike his face, rising from invisible depths. Moved by a sudden impulse he groped for a loose stone, and let it drop. He felt his heart beat many times before there was any sound. Then far below, as if the stone had fallen into deep water in some cavernous place, there came a plunk, very distant, but magnified and repeated in the hollow shaft.

'What's that? ' cried Gandalf. He was relieved when Pippin confessed what he had done; but he was angry, and Pippin could see his eye glinting. 'Fool of a Took! ' he growled. 'This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet! '

Nothing more was heard for several minutes; but then there came out of the depths faint knocks: tom-tap, tap-tom . They stopped, and when the echoes had died away, they were repeated: tap-tom, tom-tap, tap-tap, tom . They sounded disquietingly like signals of some sort; but after a while the knocking died away and was not heard again.

'That was the sound of a hammer, or I have never heard one,' said Gimli.

'Yes,' said Gandalf, 'and I do not like it. It may have nothing to do with Peregrin's foolish stone; but probably something has been disturbed that would have been better left quiet. Pray, do nothing of the kind again! Let us hope we shall get some rest without further trouble. You, Pippin, can go on the first watch, as a reward,' he growled, as he rolled himself in a blanket.

Gandalf was a wizard, not a man. Remember that he also was not taken by the goblins in "The Hobbit", and that he also had been in and out of the Necromancer's (Sauron) dungeons in Dol Guldir, without being taken. He was a Power and wore one of the Three, and had his own set of tricks.

As for Aragorn, he was a ranger, and was adept at hiding. Recall from his meeting with Frodo that he said he "...could not be seen, when he wished it..." (I don't recall the exact quote, but that is near enough, I think.)

Regarding the balrog, it's hard to imagine that he spent all those centuries hanging around the door in case anyone tried to sneak in. I'm sure he took time to relax occasionally.

Finally, the story needed them to have both been there before, to create tension.

I ponder sometimes what would have happened to any of the characters in the story had they had to cope with a monster every 50 yards trying to kill them, as we do in the game. Doubtless Sauron's victory would have been swift and decisive.

Originally Posted by Reddhawk

That's what happens when you have a "fool of a Took" in your fellowship.

i lol'ed irl

Originally Posted by Tael

Regarding the balrog, it's hard to imagine that he spent all those centuries hanging around the door in case anyone tried to sneak in. I'm sure he took time to relax occasionally.

Finally, the story needed them to have both been there before, to create tension.

sometimes my imagination run wild..

im imagine what that balrog do for fun in moria.. did he eat ? did he attack goblins ? afaik goblins feared him

There were probably cults of Balrog worship among groups of sentient Moria-dwellers. The Balrog himself probably did what he could to prepare for his master's return.

im imagine what that balrog do for fun in moria.. did he eat ? did he attack goblins ? afaik goblins feared him

You're thinking too hard :-)

Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1

sometimes my imagination run wild..

im imagine what that balrog do for fun in moria.. did he eat ? did he attack goblins ? afaik goblins feared him

I imagine he smoked a lot.

Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1

sometimes my imagination run wild..

im imagine what that balrog do for fun in moria.. did he eat ? did he attack goblins ? afaik goblins feared him

He held weekly BBQs.

He held weekly D&D meetings with the Orcs. He was the Dungeon Master.

Originally Posted by Arasilion

He was the Dungeon Master.

I lol'd.

There were no elves in Hollin at the time to report it, from memorey its inferred that the balrogs appearance causes Nirnadel to flee Lorien and its King to follow after her, as to why they seem somewhat ignorant of this history in contemporay Lorien im not sure, maybe it was just the bad vibe that caused the silvan elves to flee. The dwarves lost alot of prestige loosing 2 kings and a kingdom to the Balrog so im sure any witnesses would tend to keep silent about what they dug up, they were pretty secretive in nature anyway, and im sure telling the elves they unleashed a balrog would not go down well diplomatically if they had such communications which is unlikely since Gimli was the first Dwarf to visit in ages.

The upper level mines in Moria had long since played out thats why the dwarves dug so deep, if theres no farms or trade up there then theres no real reason for the Goblins to be occupying it, probably after 1000 years of no one being brave enough to travel through the orcs would grow pretty lax at guarding the upper levels, and put their resources near the ore still no doubt being mined by them.

Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1

in Dwarves VS goblin Wars, the balrog stand just inside the moria gate and prevent Nain from entering..

The War of the Dwarves and Orcs lasted for 6 years. During that time the Dwarves sacked every Orc stronghold in the Mistys' from Mount Gundabad to the area of the Gladden Fields with the final battle outside Moria. It's unlikely the Balrog wouldn't have heard of a Dwarf army marching his way and would not have allowed any pesky Dwarves to try to move on into Moria in triumph or as a secondary objective.

Originally Posted by Morthaur

The dwarves lost alot of prestige loosing 2 kings and a kingdom to the Balrog so im sure any witnesses would tend to keep silent about what they dug up, they were pretty secretive in nature anyway, and im sure telling the elves they unleashed a balrog would not go down well diplomatically if they had such communications which is unlikely since Gimli was the first Dwarf to visit in ages.

I doubt any survivors actually saw the balrog either. If any fled Moria before they were killed it was probably because they knew bad things were happening and dwarves were getting killed in massive numbers, but had no idea what was at the root. Even Balin doesn't seem to have known what was there when he went back to retake Moria, so I doubt it was a secret kept by the dwarves. In order for anybody to escape they would have had to run long before they saw the balrog!

If you think of Thorin in the Hobbit- he barely escaped when Smaug came and it was because he was already outside. His father and grandfather escaped through the secret door. But the only reason Thorin knew about the dragon was he saw it come to the mountain. What if the danger had come from within the mountain itself? He wouldn't have known what it was.

actually i was refering to the previous journey (solo) by gandalf.. he said he toured moria from the east and to the west.. ditto with aragorn.. he claimed he pass moria and the experience shook him up..