Thread: On who the Blue Lady would be in the books.

I've not found it since first reading it. But given that certain book content can't be used, I've long felt that The Blue Lady in Evendim, was a plain wrapped version of either Valar or Maier. The favor she holds the sons of Numenor, control over the lake Evendim, etc, all seemed to point to somebody my feeble mind can't recall exactly.

Any thoughts, guess'?

I personally think she's a "water spirit", or personification of the power of water, similar to the theory of Tom Bombadil being an "earth spirit" and Goldberry being the "River-daughter". So, not Maiar, Valar, or Elf.

Originally Posted by MataTahu

I personally think she's a "water spirit", or personification of the power of water, similar to the theory of Tom Bombadil being an "earth spirit" and Goldberry being the "River-daughter". So, not Maiar, Valar, or Elf.

I considered that, but the particulars of her relationship hint at something more than just Bombadil or Goldberry. And we never truly have settled what either of those two really were.

Originally Posted by Comstrike

I've not found it since first reading it. But given that certain book content can't be used, I've long felt that The Blue Lady in Evendim, was a plain wrapped version of either Valar or Maier. The favor she holds the sons of Numenor, control over the lake Evendim, etc, all seemed to point to somebody my feeble mind can't recall exactly.

Any thoughts, guess'?

She's no Vala, but I suppose it's possible that she's a Maia. She was really uptight about receiving respect.

I get the feeling she's supposed to be equated with the "earth spirits" Bombadil and Goldberry, except for the fact that the Blue Lady is overtly taking sides/showing an interest in the politics of Middle-earth, which doesn't really mesh with the lore we have on Bombadil and Goldberry, who quite explicitly refrain from taking sides.

So while I really doubt she'd be a Vala, it's possible she could be a Maia.

Berephon addressed this in Episode 8 of the Lotrocast podcast.

Here are some his statements:

"It's drawn from lore that we do have access to, but not to the names attached to it."


"She would be... I guess... the closest thing that you could call her is probably a maiar."


"Obviously we have references to the nature of the maiar in The Lord of the Rings, just not by name. And so, uh, we can't just come out and say this is what she is."


"I guess the best to say it is, she's a nature spirit that remained in Middle-earth."

When I first encountered Gwindeth, the Blue Lady of Lake Nenuial, she brought to mind The Lady of the Lake from the King Arthur legends.

There are no parallels in Tolkien's mythology. The Maia Uinen might be the closest, but she is associated with the seas rather than inland lakes.

It is possible that her name derives from the word 'gwing', which in the language of the Grey-elves means

1. spindrift, flying spray
2. a flying spume or spindrift blown off wavetops (Sindarin, noun)

Source: Council of Elrond

The suffix '-eth' is a feminine name ending, for example the Valier Elbereth.

I suspect that Gwindeth is one of many characters created by the developers to enhance a story.

I could have sworn that Gwindeth translates as "Blue Lady".

Originally Posted by Arasilion

I could have sworn that Gwindeth translates as "Blue Lady".

The only word that comes to mind for blue is "luin".

The reason for her attachment would be because Annúminas was built next to Lake Nenuial, precisely her domain. I would agree with the fact that she's along the same lines as Goldberry, the River-Woman's daughter, though she was probably more akin to the River-Woman herself.

Originally Posted by Reddhawk

The only word that comes to mind for blue is "luin".

From the "Names in Middle Earth, Quick Guide" thread:

gwind: (pale) blue (Gwindeth)

Originally Posted by Arasilion

From the "Names in Middle Earth, Quick Guide" thread:

gwind: (pale) blue (Gwindeth)

Well, I did say that "luin" was the only word that came to mind, but after your post I decided to do some investigative work. I don't put much stock into other threads, so I went directly to the sources.



From Gateway to Sindarin:

WIND pale blue: gwind

From The Lost Road and Other Writings (The Etymologies):

WIN-, WIND- *windi blue-grey, pale blue or grey: Q vinde, N gwind, gwinn. *winyā: Q winya, vinya evening; N gwein, pl. gwîn; Ilk. gwini, gwine. *winta- fade: Q vinta-, pa.t. vinte, vintane; ON wintha it fades, advesperascit ['evening approaches'], N gwinna. [This entry was struck out, and 'see THIN' written against it. The following pencilled addition may have been made either before or after the original entry was rejected, since it is not itself struck through:] *windiā pale blue: Q win(d)ya, vinya; N gwind.

So, it would appear that the name "Gwindeth" does, in fact, mean "Blue Lady".

Caradras is possibly an earth maiar as another example or Tolkien might just be refering to "him" as one refers to a ship as "she".

Originally Posted by Morthaur

Caradras is possibly an earth maiar as another example or Tolkien might just be refering to "him" as one refers to a ship as "she".

Caradhras is certainly a mountain, not a maia. I believe the mountain is personified out of what is perceived to be an ill will directed at those who attempt to cross the Redhorn Pass. What I find interesting, is that there may be something more to this 'ill will' than mere natural phenomenon. It was Melkor who formed the Misty Mountains, of which Caradhras the Cruel is the most infamous peak. It could be that part of Melkor's malice still worked through the mountain, giving it 'life', so to speak. In that sense, Caradhras, while nothing more than a mountain, is also an agent of evil and forms a very active part of Arda Marred. At least, that's my theory concerning the mountain's seemingly sentient characteristics.

Originally Posted by Morthaur

Caradras is possibly an earth maiar as another example or Tolkien might just be refering to "him" as one refers to a ship as "she".

I thought it was someplace to eat. My bad.

This brings to my mind the Red-maid of Garth Agarwaen, who Turbine explicitly presents as one of the "River-maids" and a "sister" of Goldberry. Here is an excerpt of the text from the quest "A Sister's Love":

'Her sisters are as wide as the world, for each way the water flows there are River-maidens. To call the Red-maid back to nature thou shalt need to enlist the aid of the maiden Iarwain Ben-adars took to wife. Her name is Goldberry.

'The winds tell that she may be found far to the west in a land where Iarwain Ben-adar still dwells. Seek out Goldberry and ask her to cleanse the water so that her sister may heal herself and the land she once loved.'

Thus, in another portion of the game Turbine has done a very nice job leveraging the Goldberry character while establishing the concept that these female water-spirits may be found throughout Middle-earth wherever water flows. Similar to the Blue Lady, the Red-maid has the power to control the waters of her demesne and is also rather prideful (at least in her corrupted state). I see the Blue Lady as a natural extension of the River-maid concept and a nice foil for the Red-maid. There is also the thematic contrast of an associated color, although that is likely a reach on my part.