Thread: Knowledge of the Lore-master Compilation

12/14/2008 Update: With the release of Mines of Moria, Turbine broke the Knowledge of the Lore-master skill. It now shows all mitigations are equal on nearly every mob you try it on, even when differences in mitigations exist. This bug has been reported on the Moria beta boards as well as numerous bug reports by myself and others since the release of Moria. However, the bug still hasn't been fixed or mentioned in Patch 1 or Patch 2. I can't update this until the skill is fixed, and it doesn't seem like Turbine is interested in fixing or acknowledging it. The mitigations shown below are probably still accurate, but this list does not contain any Moria-specific mobs.

This guide is intended to show you the most efficient damage type against each mob. The second post gives a general guide for each genus and species and the third post gives links to the analysis screen available to Lore-masters.

Breakdown by genus and species

This is a general guide and is accurate for well over 90% of the mobs you encounter. Bosses, in particular, often have slightly different mitigations than their more common brethren. Also, mobs in special areas, like Sarnur and Haudh Iarchith, are affected by buffs which drastically change their resistances so these guidelines will not be valid for mobs with those buffs.


Genus: Ancient Evil
Gaunt Man (weak to Beleriand, strong to Common)
Grim (weak to Beleriand, strong to Common)
Morroval (weak to Beleriand, strong to Common)
Nameless (weak to Beleriand, strong to Common)


Genus: Beast
Aurochs (same to All)
Barghest (same to All)
Bat (same to All)
Bear (same to All)
Cave-claw (weak to Ancient Dwarf)
Dread Turtle (strong to Common)
Elk (same to All)
Hendroval (same to All)
Kergrim (weak to Fire)
Lynx (unknown)
Mammoth (same to All)
Sabertooth (same to All)
Shrew (same to All)
Slug (weak to Fire)
Snowbeast (weak to Fire)
Warg (same to All)
Wolf (weak to Fire)


Genus: Creatures of Nature
Bog-lurker (weak to Fire)
Huorn (weaker to Fire, strong to Common)
River-maid (weak to Fire)
Roots (weak to Fire)


Genus: Dragon-kind
Dragon (weak to Ancient Dwarf)
Drake (weak to Ancient Dwarf)
Salamander (weak to Ancient Dwarf)
Worm (weak to Ancient Dwarf)


Genus: Dwarf
Dwarf (same to All)


Genus: Giant-kind
Giant (same to All)


Genus: Man
Angmarim (same to All)
Brigand (same to All)
Gauradan (same to All)
Hill-man (same to All)
Pale-folk (weak to Light)


Genus: Orc-kind
Goblin (weak to Light)
Half-orc (weak to Beleriand)
Orc (same to All)
Uruk (same to All)


Genus: Spiders and Insects
Crawler (weak to Beleriand, strong to Common)
Insect... (weak to Beleriand)
Neekerbreeker (weak to Beleriand, strong to Common)
Spider (weak to Beleriand)


Genus: The Dead
Corpse-candle (weak to Westernesse, strong to Common)
Darkwater (weak to Westernesse and Fire, strong to Common)
Decayed (weak to Westernesse, strong to Common)
Shade (weak to Westernesse and Fire, strong to Common)
Wight (weak to Westernesse, strong to Common)


Genus: Troll-kind
Gorthorog (weak to Fire and Light)
Troll (weak to Fire and Light, strong to Common)
Wood Troll (weaker to Fire, weak to Light and Beleriand, strong to Common)


Genus: Unseen
Wraith (weak to Light and Westernesse, strong to Common)


Genus: Object
Siegecraft (weakest to Fire)

Analysis screenshots

1) Nemesis or Arch Nemesis (28 total)
Adhargal
Agarochir
Ansach
Azgoth
Balhest
Barashal
Breosal
Brullug
Coldbear
Drugoth the Death-monger
Eimyr
Fergandir
Guloth
Helchgam
Lagmas
Lughrien
Mordirith
Naruhel
Nengon
Remmenaeg
Shadow-Eater
Stone-Biter
Storvagun
Thaurlach
Thorog
Thrang
Urugarth Gatekeeper
Zaudru

2) Elite Master (83 total)
Agarochir
Aignis
Akrur
Angmarim Silkspinner
Arnmoth the Exacting
Ashurz the Great Goblin
Athpukh
Bloodwing
Bolgrukh
Brishzel
Brogadan
Cargul
Castellan Wisdan
Champion of Minas Caul
Colnor
Delucheleg
Doldagnir
Drake Matron
Dushkal
Edan
Ein
Einiora
Elder Morelendil Guard
Faegfaer
Fire-drake Elder
Fire-drake Warden
Forvengwath
Gajarpan
Gaunt Death-lord
Ghashfra Scrapper
Ghashrip
Gorthorog Guardian
Grimbark
Grishakram
Grishakrum
Gruglok
Gurkamab
Gurthul
Horm, the Pit Beast
Iarvael
Ice-drake Guard
Icerender
Ilith
Kamordi
Krithmog
Kulgurz
Lamkarn
Lozudurkh
Megoriath
Mordrambor 1
Mordrambor 2
Mormoz
Morthrang
Morven
Muirol
Mulvuire, High Sorceress
Mura
Naglangon
Praunk-goj
Rhavameldir
Riamul
Ringorth
Rodakhan
Ronkurz, Champion of Maethad
Salvakh
Shadow-brood Queen
Shiruk
Skybreaker
Stagnant Oak
Stone-giant Guard
Tarbam
Tarkrip Slave-master
Tarlug
Temair the Devoted
Thunder Lord
Urro
Valandil of Arnor
Vatar
Warchief Burzghash
World-eater
Zanthrug
Zhurmat
Zurtith

3) Elite and Rare (31 total)
Angmarim Firebrand
Angmarim Snow-master
Avair
Burzfil
Cave Peikko
Dwaling Chief
Fotath
Gadhup
Gloomleaf
Hewn Giant-arm
Iron Crown Commander (42 Elite)
Iron Crown Spirit-master
Iron Crown Stauncher
Kurth
Migul
Morkar
Mul Kholuim
Nurzurz
Rakothurz Horm's Handler
Red-fang Behemoth
Ringdagnir
Ros
Ryk
Sagrurz
Skessa
Snowback
Sorkrank
Tentacle
Thordragh
Tum
Will Tuffin

4) Signature and Rare (32 total)
Angmarim Sorcerer
Bill Tripper
Blokk
Caged Red-fang
Deluches
Farmak the Best Runner
Feoc
Gauradan Pack-leader
Gauradan Seer
Great Snow-matron
Ice-giant Chieftain
Izkal, Ashurz's Beast
Kylma-Sari
Latub
Lauku-Vihaja
Manu
Marrow
Matuga the Torturer
Nadelek
Narglup
Northpaw
Pitka-hammas
Raillug
Roibeard
Ruin-web Spinner
Ruin-web Trapper
Ruin-web Weaver
Silvan Thirty Point
Thauk
Tuima-kita
Umnen
Ushtum

5) Normal and Rare (15 total)
Ansley Atwood
Brekhin
Dugald
Etu
Frangan
Huisdan
Ice-shore Fisher
Icy Plague-wind
Kevoka
Kokas-karju
Ogden Oakes
Ruariakh
Ruriakh
Silvan Den-mother
Tobaid

6) Elite and Common (44 total)
Alerted Archer
Angmarim Citizen
Angmarim Doom-spinner
Angmarim High Priest
Angmarim Lookout
Barkskin Wood-troll
Barrow-spirit
Blogmal Raider
Blogmal Reaver
Camoflaged Bog-prowler
Corcur Plague-bringer
Corrupted Blood-maple
Deadly Wight
Drake
Duvardain Venom-master
Fell Bog-prowler
Frost-giant
Frost-giant Rockhurler
Fumarole
Giant Brimstone leech
Great Winter-tusk
Jarn-olog
Jarn-olog Warrior
Khrahjarn Thrasher
Krahjarn Bruiser
Krahjarn Heaver
Krahjarn Lieutenant
Krahjarn Liutenant
Krahjarn Sentry
Mammoth Elder
Merciless Fell-spirit
Mournful Fell-spirit
Noxious Barrow-warden
Rotting Wood-troll
Shadow-brood Spider
Stone-giant Chieftain
Stone-giant Lobber
Stone-giant Warrior
Swift-talon Morroval
Terrible Winter-tusk
Twisted Blood-oak
Twisted Fell-spirit (38)
Winter-tusk
Young Drake

7) Signature and Common (24 total)
Accursed Fell-spirit
Angmarim Gate-keeper
Fearsome Barghest
Gauradan Wanderer
Grim Creoth
Hoary Aurochs
Horrid Barghest
Horrid Dread-mist
Hungry Peikko
Ice-giant Thrower
Ice-giant Warrior
Krahjarn Shield-host
Morroval
Rime Snow-mantle
Searing Urfon
Shaggy Snow-mantle
Snow-mantle Bull
Snow-mantle Cow
Snow-mantle Matron
Tarkrip Jailor
Terrible Fell-spirit (50)
Warg Ruins-breaker
Wathful Dread-mist
White Hand Battler

8) Normal and Common (129 total)
Angmarim Guard
Angmarim Invader
Angmarim Raider
Angmarim Scout
Angmarim Snow-tracker
Arngrim
Balt-olog Crusher
Balt-olog Heaver
Balt-olog Master
Biting Sand-flies
Blade-beak Ravager
Bleak Grim
Blogmal Captain
Blogmal Fighter
Blogmal Guard
Blogmal Skirmisher
Blogmal Spear-hurler
Blogmal Ward
Brumal Grim
Burning Limrafn
Burrowing Sand-norbog
Cave Hendroval
Chief Tomb-robber
Chilling Grim
Cleft Crawler
Corcur Blood-sworn
Cowardly Boggart
Crawling Rock-shell
Crazed Kilpa-kita
Creeping Red-root
Creeping Sand-lurker
Darkling
Deadly Boggart
Deadly Crag-hawk
Decaying Hand
Desperate Tomb-robber
Dourhand Blaster
Dourhand Captain
Dourhand Excavator
Dourhand Mine-overseer
Drift Wolverine
Elder Forest-shambler
Elusive Snow-beast
Enslaved Fell-spirit
Enslaved Pale-folk
Fierce Wolf
Flickering Limrafn
Formidable Forest-shambler
Frost-worm
Frost Grim
Garadan Thief
Gauradan Gorge-stalker
Gauradan Raid-leader
Gauradan Ravager
Gauradan Seer
Gauradan Soothsayer
Gauradan Thief
Gauradan Tribesman
Gelid Grim
Giant Bloodfang
Giant Snow-bear
Gramsfoot Leader
Gramsfoot Slasher
Gramsfoot Spear-flinger
Grasping Sand-lurker
Grazing Elk
Hardy Forest-shambler
Hill-buck
Hill-crawler
Hill-hind
Huge Sand-norbog
Ice-shore Fisher
Ice-shore Matron
Ice-shore Peikko
Ice-walker Captain
Ice-wight Coldarrow
Ice-wight Warrior
Ice-worm
Iron Crown Bowman
Iron Crown Fighter (41)
Iron Crown Fighter (45)
Iron Crown Necromancer
Iron Crown Sentinel
Island Salamander
Kergrim Barrow-prowler
Kilpa-kita Hunter
Kilpa-kita Tracker
Lake-skimmer
Large Snow-bear
Mountain Pack-warg
Mountain Warg
Oath-breaker Hunter
Peikko
Ravenous Twilight-howler
Ruin-web Ambusher
Ruin-web Hunter
Ruin-web Mother
Sabretooth Kilpa-kita
Salamander
Savage Kilpa-kita
Savage Peikko
Scavenging Cave-claw
Schreeching Lake-skimmer
Scruffy Tomb-robber
Shaggy Frost-antler
Silvan Frost-antler
Silvan Silent-paw
Skittering Ruin-web
Skittering Strangle-web
Snow-beast Rock-thrower
Snowreap Shield-bearer
Snowreap Skirmisher
Snowy Lynx
Steppe-elk Hart
Steppe-elk Hind
Strangle-web Hunter
Tamed Tundra Bear
Tarkrip Basher
Tarkrip Fire-thrower
Tarkrip Spear-hurler
Tundra Bear
Vicious Shadowfang
Warg Ruins-howler
Wild Kilpa-kita
Winter-worm
Wolfhound
Wood-web Hunter
Wood-web Spinner
Wretched Rock-worm

How this information is obtained
The skill Knowledge of the Lore-master can be used to determine the strength and weaknesses of mobs. In particular, it shows their mitigation to different damage types. So, in an attempt to provide the community with a resource to get this information to non Lore-master types, I'm posting these shots for some of the mobs I encounter.


When used, the skill pops up a display of the mob similar to the following:

For this mob, the best damage type is Beleriand, following by everything else except Common, followed by Common.

5 reserved posts should do it.

Nice collection!

I've amassed a pretty large number of KotLM screenshots myself, and noticed along that way that (on swarm, normal, signature, and elite monsters) all vulnerabilities are by species. So e.g. you'll notice that the new Forochel monsters called Peikko are in fact members of Genus Beast, Species Snowbeast, and like all other members of species Snowbeast, they're vulnerable to fire.

Anyhow, rather than memorizing stats for each and every monster in game, it's a LOT easier to learn which ~species~ are vulnerable to which damage types. So you don't need to know that the Great Goblin is individually weak to light damage, if you know that ALL goblins are weak to light damage.

You can find a writeup here that includes every species I've found (which in turn includes every species posted above).

<Wayne>I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!</Wayne>

Awesome info - thanks for the links

knowledge is always a good thing. perhaps you could also add the information to :

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:Creatures

your screenshots are immensely useful, i'm grateful for that. if i have time, i'll help adding the information to lorebook's bestiary. with proper credit due, of course.

in the meantime, maybe it's possible to sticky this thread?

Either a sticky or a Lorebook Entry would be nice here.

I don't know if General Gameplay would be the right place for a sticky, but if not the lorebook itself, at least the Loremaster forums, so people can see this and add to it.

Originally Posted by Aloro

I've amassed a pretty large number of KotLM screenshots myself, and noticed along that way that (on swarm, normal, signature, and elite monsters) all vulnerabilities are by species. So e.g. you'll notice that the new Forochel monsters called Peikko are in fact members of Genus Beast, Species Snowbeast, and like all other members of species Snowbeast, they're vulnerable to fire.

I know I'm replying to an old post...while good as a general rule, it's not absolutely true. While most Angmarim resistances are even across the board one up there shows a vulnerability to fire. They're all Man/Angmarim, however.

Originally Posted by Aloro

You can find a writeup here that includes every species I've found (which in turn includes every species posted above).

You indeed are correct.

I had originally intended this to be just for bosses which often do not share the same mitigations as their more common counterparts. It also gives an idea of where the mob is, and what it looks like.

I have another 160 pics which I should add to this someday.

I agree it should probably be in the Combat forum, and not General.

simply amazing....will refer to it often...thank you

Originally Posted by atteSmythe

I know I'm replying to an old post...while good as a general rule, it's not absolutely true. While most Angmarim resistances are even across the board one up there shows a vulnerability to fire. They're all Man/Angmarim, however.

If you're referring to Mulvuire, if you look at the effects she's under, I think one of them is the Lore Masters Raven's skills that adds to Fire vunerability. That could change her normally 'good' mitigation to 'fair'.

It's important all these Kowledge of the Lore-master captures are done when the target isn't under any corresponding debuffs. Most I've looked at are good for the debuffs I recognise, but I'm not confident on many of them.

Ah, good call. I'm not going to go through them all again to double-check, but I certainly wasn't looking for vulnerability debuffs when I checked the first time.

I know this has been here for a while, but I just found it! Wanted to say very nice job and thank you FissionChips!

Originally Posted by Magic_Johnson

I know this has been here for a while, but I just found it! Wanted to say very nice job and thank you FissionChips!

You're welcome. I have about 200 more to add once I get unlazy one of these days.

As promised in several threads, this is now updated. Well, it will be once they're all uploaded to the server in an hour or so.

387 total right now.

I may take out the common mobs completely. I may change that section to be just resistances based on Species and Type.

This needs to be moved to the Lorebook. Clover, could you help out with that?

Just found this. Awesome job.

Very enlightening too. Everyone assumes that Thaurlach is only weak to Beleriand, but it looks like Westernesse, ADM, and Light are just as good. Good to know!

Sticky and Lorebook this ASAP!

And I petition for the title FissionChips, Inspector General!

Remarkable, no Superior FissionChips. I've linked this to our kinship forums for LoH.

Truely a great wealth of information.

My thanks,
Finnion

I particularly like the Thaurlach screenshot, in which a hunter in the raid 'accidentally' DFs as the stuff hits the fan.

A very long and comprehensive list.

I just wanted to chime in that just because the "Knowledge of the LM" skill shows two (or more) types as the same, does NOT mean that the mob is exactly the same in its mitigations of those damages. The LM skill is only a rough approximation--each of those designations ("weak," etc.) represents a range of numerical mitigations, some larger than others.

For example, look at the listing for Trolls. The LM skill would seem to indicate that Light and Beleriand are equal in their performance against trolls. However, this is not the case--Light weapons cause significantly more damage than Beleriand weapons do . This has been demonstrated through damage testing. Or take Angmarim. The LM skill indicates all damage types are the same, but in fact, Westernesse weapons outperform (by a small amount, around 3% extra damage) any other damage type. This is not a large enough magnitude difference for the LM skill to "catch" it, as I believe the LM skill works in around 5% step-increments, but extensive damage testing has demonstrated this to be the case.

A few other examples of how damage testing can give some additional information, back from my days of doing this sort of analysis:

Wargs (at least the Rakeclaws in Angmar): ~ 3% weaker to AD, and ~ 2.5% weaker to Beleriand, Fire, and Westernesse, despite LM skill showing them with no weaknesses.

Spiders: while the LM skill correctly identifies their biggest weakness (Beleriand, about 11-13%), they have smaller weaknesses to Light (4-5%) and AD/Fire (~ 2-3%).

Worms: again, the LM skill catches the biggest weakness (AD, around 9-11%), but fails to catch the smaller, secondary weakness (Westernesse, ~ 2%).

I could go on and on but there would be too many things to list. The point is just a word of caution that the LM skill is a good "first start" when it comes to figuring out damage; if you've never encountered a creature before, a quick use of the skill will let you know right away if there are any large-scale (roughly 10% or greater) weaknesses that it has. For most situations out in the real-world, facing normal mobs, anything less than that amount is probably not worth worrying about. But for more difficult battles against elites, EM's, boss fights and so forth, even a small (2-3%) increase in damage can make the difference over a long fight.

If anyone is interested in the very detailed analyses of this carried out about a year ago, look through some of the old posts in the Combat forum for threads created by either myself of Hakon Stormbrow. I did most of the actual in-game damage data collection and Hakon focused mostly on pounding out the mathematical formulas using Excel (many of his numbers he then posted on Google Spreadsheets, so you can actually see the numbers and the formulas for how he arrived at them). It was an analysis we did over the course of a couple months, and represents dozens and dozens of hours of actual in-game data collection (equipping various weapons of the exact same damage range in all ways, except common vs. beleriand vs. light, etc.) and actually attacking mobs and recording damage numbers. Anyway, like I said, the numbers are there for those who care to go searching for them.

Still, data like what was provided in this thread are very useful, and would be crucial especially for the new mobs in Moria once MoM is released. Hopefully we'll see threads like this with new results soon after the 18th!

Any chance our devoted FissionChips could update this with MoM data?

Originally Posted by gildhur

Any chance our devoted FissionChips could update this with MoM data?

Turbine broke the Knowledge of the Lore-master skill with Moria. No fix in patch 1.

There has been at least one bug report (my own) and one can only guess many more from other players as well as several threads on the subject both here (linky) and on the Moria beta boards.

So until Turbine fixes the skill, no updates.

It would be nice if Turbine at least acknowledged the problem and added it to the list of known issues. Sigh....

Originally Posted by FissionChips

Turbine broke the Knowledge of the Lore-master skill with Moria. No fix in patch 1.

There has been at least one bug report (my own) and one can only guess many more from other players as well as several threads on the subject (linky).

So until Turbine fixes the skill, no updates.

It would be nice if Turbine at least acknowledged the problem and added it to the list of known issues. Sigh....

This was discussed on the beta forums and I was in the camp that thought they just didn't get around to assigning qualitative labels to the mitigations and resists while they were still tweaking the underlying numbers. AFAIK, we never got any official comments.

It's frustrating, no doubt. I'll bug it too.

The kinship I belong to has a link to this thread on our forums, thank you for this thread!

Any update on this? Wondered if the skill was fixed. I noticed that a Lothlorien rep award was a scroll for revealing weaknesses for us non-LM types so does that mean the skill is working now?

Once again, thank you for all your hard work.

Originally Posted by treato

Any update on this? Wondered if the skill was fixed. I noticed that a Lothlorien rep award was a scroll for revealing weaknesses for us non-LM types so does that mean the skill is working now?

Once again, thank you for all your hard work.

Oh is that what that does? lol. It doesn't say what it actually does on the item. Good to know.

Fission - Great job, and thank you for taking what I would assume was a pretty sizable amount of time to do this.

Gertheryg are resistant to Fire and Light, not weak to it.

Not quite in danger of purge, but maybe now that KotLM is working again, people could continue to add to this compilation.

I have found this useful in the past, it may still be useful and obviously took a lot of time to put together.

bump for this great information.

Bump for a priceless resource of information. Being a hunter it's essential for me to maximize my dps and I can't do that unless I know mitigation of damage types. It would be nice if someone could update this for moria and mirkwood creatures too though.

One of my favorite parts of being an LM is learning all the weaknesses and resistances of the mobs. It makes a big difference in how I play all my other characters. This is a tremendous resource to non-LM's and should be made more readily apparent. Why is it in the LM forum still? The skill has been fixed. Move this to the combat forum so other classes will see it.

I can see you've put some work into this, +rep.

Just a quick FYI, mitigations can differ from region to region, even if it's the same Genus and Type. Some Wargs for example are weak to Fire, some spiders are weak to Light, most Gauntmen are also weak against Westernesse, nearly all Uruks and Orcs are weak vs Beleriand, Light and/or Fire, Goblins are often weak vs Fire too, etc. The list just goes on. It depends which ones they are. To cover every single one would be an nigh impossible task.